Author Topic: Anyone growing cacao criollo here?  (Read 1047 times)

vstolbi

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Anyone growing cacao criollo here?
« on: April 15, 2021, 03:02:53 PM »
It is a superior flavored cacao plant that is supposed to make top tier quality chocolate but it is so hard to find an air layer. I have been in search for one for over a year... :/

Kuhyay

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Re: Anyone growing cacao criollo here?
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2021, 04:04:08 PM »
I can’t speak to the flavor. You can order some fresh pods from Montoso and try them out for yourself though.  https://www.montosogardens.com/online_store/
Kenny

TomekK

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Re: Anyone growing cacao criollo here?
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2021, 11:51:57 AM »
If you’d rather have plants than seeds, I will have some seedlings from various criollo varieties in the next few months-not all have pure white seeds, but I do have one with pure white seeds (it comes from a seedling criollo tree). Other varieties are Soconusco (not strictly criollo, but a famous heirloom variety from Mexico-mainly light purple seeds, some have white splotches), and a Puerto Rican heirloom with a mix of white and purple seeds. In addition, if you’re looking for a genetically important and cool variety, I will have some Pentagona (a very rare variety from Venezuela-purple-pink seeds, but pod has distinctive ridges making for a pentagonal cross-section of the fruit) seedlings too, as well as round leaf jaca and Heirloom Nacional. If you’re interested in anything, let me know, and I can reserve whatever you’d want.

Though cacao doesn’t grow true from seed, most criollo and other heirloom varieties grow very similarly if not identically to their parents-the genetics might be slightly different, but the characteristics will mostly stay the same. So a white-seeded cacao seedling will most likely produce white seeded fruit. The reason for most air layering and/or grafting is for highly-hybridized varieties, as those are bred carefully and slight genetic differences might change the characteristics.

Criollo is supposed to make higher-quality chocolate because the white seeds contain less bitter compounds (Aztecs I think bred cacao to have white seeds, to more closely resemble the taste of Mocambo while still having more caffeine and theobromine). That doesn’t always mean criollo chocolate will taste better to everyone, especially if you add anything which is almost always added to chocolate, like sugar and milk. Criollo generally gives a milder, more complex flavor. I describe Criollo as any cacao with white seeds. In the modern context, Trinitario generally means modern hybrids made to taste better while still giving better flavor, and they are usually purple-seeded, stronger tasting cacao with some complexity. Forastero generally means modern hybrids bred for productivity and ignoring taste, but, for example, Nacional types are technically “forastero” types. I personally use Trinitario and Forastero to describe modern hybrids, and specific names to describe old heirloom types, for example Pentagona, Porcelana (though that’s a criollo, it deserves its own name), Nacional, Soconusco (named after its locality), etc.

Hope my rambling is helpful!

Tomek

Finca La Isla

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Re: Anyone growing cacao criollo here?
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2021, 02:16:24 PM »
Interesting comments but I would take issue with the statement that white seeds mean criollo. There is a Brazilian cacao with white seeds called catonga which is very different from criollo and the consensus is that catonga produces a poor quality chocolate. I planted some of this stuff by mistake and I am going to top work it.
Cacao categorizing is moving away from simply forastero, trinitario, and criollo to many more catagories.
Glad to see more people with a desire to grow criollo.
Saludos
Peterl

TomekK

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Re: Anyone growing cacao criollo here?
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2021, 04:08:20 PM »
Interesting comments but I would take issue with the statement that white seeds mean criollo. There is a Brazilian cacao with white seeds called catonga which is very different from criollo and the consensus is that catonga produces a poor quality chocolate. I planted some of this stuff by mistake and I am going to top work it.
Cacao categorizing is moving away from simply forastero, trinitario, and criollo to many more catagories.
Glad to see more people with a desire to grow criollo.
Saludos
Peterl

Haven’t heard of catonga, that’s interesting. I definitely agree with the move away from the three simple names, and better describing each variety. I think in general, white beans means a higher quality chocolate, but I guess that’s not completely true! Also, if one takes Criollo to be any older heirloom variety with high-quality flavor, then most Criollo wouldn’t even have white beans, as so many “fine” cacao doesn’t have to have white beans.

I don’t live in a significant cacao-producing country, so it is interesting to see what people who do have to say about classifying cacao varieties. Thanks for your comment!

Finca La Isla

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Re: Anyone growing cacao criollo here?
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2021, 05:16:36 PM »
Where I live cacao cultivation is traditional from prehispánica times.  But this area is just below what would be described as Mesoamérica. So 'criollo' didn't really reach here.  In the border area of CR and Nicaragua criollo can be found though it’s not easy.
The Spanish started cultivating cacao about 1650 in the province of Limon.  The cacao that has become traditional here, starting with 'native' cacao that has absorbed various introductions from the Spanish times to United Fruit, etc. is known as 'Matina'.  Matina is similar to Nacional, a amelonado type.
Peter

TomekK

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Re: Anyone growing cacao criollo here?
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2021, 09:52:50 PM »
Where I live cacao cultivation is traditional from prehispánica times.  But this area is just below what would be described as Mesoamérica. So 'criollo' didn't really reach here.  In the border area of CR and Nicaragua criollo can be found though it’s not easy.
The Spanish started cultivating cacao about 1650 in the province of Limon.  The cacao that has become traditional here, starting with 'native' cacao that has absorbed various introductions from the Spanish times to United Fruit, etc. is known as 'Matina'.  Matina is similar to Nacional, a amelonado type.
Peter

So you consider Criollo to be Mesoamerican white-seeded cacao varieties? What about something like Porcelana from Venezuela? Would you consider that Criollo? I’m personally not that knowledgeable in cacao varieties from Central America, as most of the varieties I am growing are South American. Matina sound interesting, a good-flavor and good-yield variety like Nacional. Can you describe the pods? I’m interested in what other cacao varieties you have in Costa Rica. Do you have any Pentagona types, with 5 ridges on the pods? I believe those come from Venezuela, but on most of the CATIE photos showing cacao pods there are always a few Pentagona pods. I know CATIE has varieties from other countries, but the quantity of this variety on their photos makes it seem it’s an important part of their collection. Also, what do you think of the CATIE collection in general?

Many online stores sell “catongo” chocolate as high-quality, and a website said it was similar to Porcelana. Can you tell why it’s a poor variety?

Finca La Isla

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Re: Anyone growing cacao criollo here?
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2021, 03:17:30 PM »
Cacao varieties is a complex subject with new information and lots of scholarly opinions continually being modified.
As I understand what we call criollo is a variety that was brought to Central America and southern Mexico in ancient times from South America.  We’re talking a few thousand years ago.  We used to believe the first chocolate was made from cacao by the Olmec in southern Mexico.  Now there is evidence of an earlier chocolate from Ecuador, I think.  Anyway, the meso Americans cultivated cacao intensively since the Olmecs and what is left of that is 'criollo'
Porcelanas have their own common names and I don’t know much about them.
Matina has some different presentations but the classic is a round shape with rounded off ridges.  It doesn’t come to a point.  Our chocolate is made with Matina.
CATIE has one of the worlds best cacao collections and they have been involved in hybridization projects since the eighties.  They came out with a cacao, to be planted by seed, around 1987.  The eighties cacao program was a failure. Within its genetic mix was a catonga.  Some of the early CATIE plants have white seeds which produced some excitement but we’ve been told not to be drawn in by catonga.  I have never really tried catonga personally but I think these people know what they are talking about.
Having said that I must add that chocolate flavor and aroma appreciation is subjective.  This can be a problem for the horticulture academics who run the programs to produce new, improved cacao selections.  There are going to be mounds of statistics on production, disease resistance, etc.  that’s a lot easier to work with than flavor wheels.
CATIE has 6 selections that are distributed as grafted trees.  They are what is commonly called Trinitario varieties.  They are more resistant and productive than Matina and especially criollo.  Almost everyone is planting the CATIE material.  The six different varieties have distinct presentations and flavor profiles.  Not everyone plants them all. Probably it is best to plant those six in their own rows so they can cross pollinate but that you could collect the types separately to experiment with blends, see what works out for your conditions and taste.
Peter

gardenhoe

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Re: Anyone growing cacao criollo here?
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2021, 04:34:13 AM »
I have criollo, forastero and unknown from beans from hawaii. White seeds do not mean that they are criollo, white seeds are a genetic anomaly that can occur in cacao plants.