Author Topic: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener  (Read 18137 times)

MangoMaven888

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I have a Guava tree that didn't produce this year and I didn't like the growth habit where it was in the yard (too lanky and spreading), so I completely decapitated the tree, and bark grafted 5 scions 2 times.  1st attempt used grafting wax, and think I applied too much that got into all the 5 grafts. 

The 2nd attempt, I didn't use grafting wax, but used grafting tape on the top to seal everything up.  Then I secured the scions to the rootstock with black electrical tape, and further secured with large rubber bands.  Covered and taped down a clear plastic bag to prevent rain from getting in.  The scions dried up in about 2 weeks.  I even positioned the scions to the edge of where I separated the bark, as I read that would increase success rate.  I took pics of the aftermath and believe mold got in perhaps because all 5 failed again?

I'm thinking about attempting coffin style grafts on the stumps with 5 more scions.  I was thinking of placing the grafts on top of where the stump is beginning to shoot out new growth.  Would that increase my chances of success?  Would coffin style grafts do well on a stump?  Or should I try an alternate graft method or are there any recommended adjustments I should make to the bark graft?


Pic right after grafting showing the finished grafting work (2nd attempt):



The aftermath results :(








Potential locations of coffin grafts where new growth is coming out:




grant5185

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Great post- will try

Orkine

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MangoMaven888, I don't think where you place it relative to new growth is that critical but I will let others chime in as well.

I do know that guava can sometimes be difficult to graft.  If this method works, please post your steps, photograph the process and write up as you go along so you don't forget anything.   It will help many people.

In my case, I have been successful grafting the shoots and were I in your situation I will let it grow out and graft to the emerging shoots.  Then a simple cleft graft or veneer becomes an option.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2023, 09:41:25 PM by Orkine »

sapote

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Re: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener
« Reply #103 on: August 05, 2023, 12:18:41 AM »
sapote, what type of fruit tree were you grafting that takes 2yrs for scion to bud out? Just curious.
Sorry for the late response on this. It was the Edward cutting grafted on the Glenn rootstock. In fact I just went out at 9PM  to see if the now 5 years old graft still alive and if any shootings came out: none and the cutting now is flat bended in with the rootstock bark. pic below.
The reason this 5 yrs old graft never send out any shoots because I have another graft above (graft at the same time) with shooting sent out early and it took all the energy from the branch and so this lower graft has been in dormant for 5 yrs and counting. 



« Last Edit: August 05, 2023, 12:25:05 AM by sapote »

sapote

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Re: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener
« Reply #104 on: August 05, 2023, 12:37:08 AM »
Cleft may be the most dummy proof.  In my opinion,  the "coffin" graft is a poor method (and has nothing to do with nor any resemblance to a graft by Walter Zill).  I am not sure why you would have stripped the scion.  Cant see anything hood to come of that.

If done right, side veneer is a fast take and makes for a good graft union.
Correct that Cleft is the sure way but what if the rootstock branch is much larger than the scion? This is why Walter Zill shown his graft of cuttings on a larger branches. However, as amatuers gardeners I and others can't tell how to cut the bark flat down to the cambium -- not too deep into the wood and not enough -- and so by pulling off the bark it's a sure way to get to the cambium 100% sure as in the "coffin" method.

sapote

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Re: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener
« Reply #105 on: August 05, 2023, 12:48:24 AM »
I used this technique today on my Venus, and hoping the grafts took, although I'm not sure.  Did my best to get some pics,

I don't see you cut off the top of branches above the grafts. I would cut off the top before digging the graves. I also think the graves are a little too wide for the coffins. When they are matched the grave two side barks will heal to the scion faster.
It seems you successfully had a few survived grafts. Congrads!!!

On the rubber bands. I won't worry sap restriction in the first month. I would not touch/disturb the rubber band or tape for fear of dislodge the tender scion; wait until after the new shoots about 6" long then remove the rubber bands and redo the taping to support the graft from wind breakage.

sapote

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Re: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener
« Reply #106 on: August 05, 2023, 01:29:37 AM »
Success on 2/3 grave coffins.  EXCELLENT results considering was my first time grafting.  It was about 6-7 weeks but I'm very happy they took!
At this stage, I would cut off the branch above the graft so the rootstock only push the new shoots from the scion.
These grafts took longer time to push new shoots because OP left too much leaves and nodes above the graft. I would cut off the branch above the lowest leaf to force the rootstock to push new shoots from the scion.

sapote

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Re: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener
« Reply #107 on: August 05, 2023, 01:37:32 AM »
Providing an update on my Venus (under different screen name, got locked out my previous & unable to restore.  Ended up getting 1/3 success on my first grafting attempt.  2 years later, I have fruit on my Orange Essence scion grafted to my Venus  ;D










Congrats!!!

I would cut off the dead (or still alive) part of the rootstock above the graft, as the dead root will root and infect the graft.


fliptop

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Re: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener
« Reply #108 on: September 04, 2023, 03:40:47 PM »
Thank you, sapote, for this technique!



edzone9

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Re: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener
« Reply #109 on: September 04, 2023, 06:09:20 PM »
Is there a video of the coffin grafting method ?
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simon_grow

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Re: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener
« Reply #110 on: September 04, 2023, 06:43:20 PM »
I have a Guava tree that didn't produce this year and I didn't like the growth habit where it was in the yard (too lanky and spreading), so I completely decapitated the tree, and bark grafted 5 scions 2 times.  1st attempt used grafting wax, and think I applied too much that got into all the 5 grafts. 

The 2nd attempt, I didn't use grafting wax, but used grafting tape on the top to seal everything up.  Then I secured the scions to the rootstock with black electrical tape, and further secured with large rubber bands.  Covered and taped down a clear plastic bag to prevent rain from getting in.  The scions dried up in about 2 weeks.  I even positioned the scions to the edge of where I separated the bark, as I read that would increase success rate.  I took pics of the aftermath and believe mold got in perhaps because all 5 failed again?

I'm thinking about attempting coffin style grafts on the stumps with 5 more scions.  I was thinking of placing the grafts on top of where the stump is beginning to shoot out new growth.  Would that increase my chances of success?  Would coffin style grafts do well on a stump?  Or should I try an alternate graft method or are there any recommended adjustments I should make to the bark graft?


Pic right after grafting showing the finished grafting work (2nd attempt):



The aftermath results :(








Potential locations of coffin grafts where new growth is coming out:


When changing over a tree, itís best not completely chop it down to a stump. Itís best to save as many of the scaffold branches as possible and also best to leave some branches with leaves on it yo keep the sap flowing.

When you remove the entire top, the bark grafts have to be vented to release the excess moisture. You can place a wick to drain the moisture or place a small cut to release the moisture. If the moisture is not released, it can drown the scions resulting in a failed graft.

Simon

edzone9

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Re: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener
« Reply #111 on: September 06, 2023, 05:46:16 PM »
I just tried this method yesterday , I donít think I went in deep enough, so I went back and cut the box a little deeper and put everything back together crossing fingers 👍🏼

I need to find the perfect tool maybe a 1/4Ē chisel, to cut out a perfect box close to the size of the scion , my freestyle knife skills are not upto oar , the scion I got a perfect cut using my veggie slicer 👍🏼








« Last Edit: September 06, 2023, 05:55:09 PM by edzone9 »
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Guanabanus

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Re: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener
« Reply #112 on: January 19, 2024, 09:22:30 PM »
Healing of the graftwood to that green bark is not likely.  We normally cut through the bark to the white wood.
Har