Author Topic: Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?  (Read 1073 times)

hin00n

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Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?
« on: September 29, 2023, 02:50:22 PM »
Hello, I'm new here. Name's Jack. I have a burgeoning interest in tropical trees that started from my lychees. I also have pineapples and bananas, and am currently starting some cherimoya from seed. Aside from that I grow a wide variety of subtropicals and temperate fruits, like figs, apples and honeyberries. I primarily grow in containers. I plan on adding a mango, a longan, a mangosteen, and a cherilata to my collection. Which brings me to my motivation to join here.

Information on the cherilata seems sparse which makes sense since it's new. I'm curious how it'd do out here. My microclimate has rare light frosts, generally full dry sun throughout spring to early fall, and is wet cold and slightly humid during late fall and winter. The hottest it normally gets is 105f with winter usually just above freezing at night. Considering both parent trees should be hardy in my region, would it be the same for the cherilata?

Thanks and nice to meet you.

Bush2Beach

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Re: Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2023, 04:12:51 PM »
Cherimoya will do better but definitely graft Cherilata onto Cherimoya , put it in a primo spot and hope for the best.
It will grow just maybe not make an edible fruit. If your in a hotter part of the bay, all the better.

roblack

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Re: Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2023, 09:30:02 PM »
Hey Jack! Welcome to the forum.

Interesting how different rootstocks may better suit Cherilata, depending on location.

It probably does well on cherimoya here also, but mine are growing on atemoya and guanabana.

Best of luck and keep us posted.


Pau

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Re: Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2023, 10:03:40 PM »
What paet of bay area? I am also bay area 9b

Oolie

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Re: Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2023, 10:04:29 PM »
Mark Lee is in a perpetually cloudy and cool area of San Diego, and his cherilata fruits.
I'm not sure how highly he rates it, but he also probably receives many more heat units than those in the bay area.

aaronn

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Re: Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2023, 10:19:04 PM »
Iím in Napa and my cherilata died at the graft last winter. I donít think it was an issue of climate. More like something to do with the graft failing or something like that. But Iím not sure about that.
For true mangosteen youíll probably need a greenhouse. All my small Garcinia seedlings died last winter (no purple mangosteen), but Iím trying again with some Achachas.
Good luck!
Aaron

hin00n

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Re: Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2023, 09:39:40 AM »
What paet of bay area? I am also bay area 9b

I'm in the mid-Peninsula.

hin00n

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Re: Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2023, 09:46:17 AM »
Iím in Napa and my cherilata died at the graft last winter. I donít think it was an issue of climate. More like something to do with the graft failing or something like that. But Iím not sure about that.
For true mangosteen youíll probably need a greenhouse. All my small Garcinia seedlings died last winter (no purple mangosteen), but Iím trying again with some Achachas.
Good luck!
Aaron

Shame to hear. I was planning on just bringing the mangosteen inside during late fall. Where did you get your cherilata from? I've been having trouble finding them with shipping.

RB

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Re: Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2023, 12:34:02 AM »
My Bay Area cherilata is growing well.  I grafted the scion to a cherimoya seedling spring 2021. It is holding a few fruit but they are not sizing up as fast the cherimoya. 

aaronn

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Re: Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2023, 03:46:24 PM »
Iím in Napa and my cherilata died at the graft last winter. I donít think it was an issue of climate. More like something to do with the graft failing or something like that. But Iím not sure about that.
For true mangosteen youíll probably need a greenhouse. All my small Garcinia seedlings died last winter (no purple mangosteen), but Iím trying again with some Achachas.
Good luck!
Aaron

Shame to hear. I was planning on just bringing the mangosteen inside during late fall. Where did you get your cherilata from? I've been having trouble finding them with shipping.

I got it from a friend on this forum. But, like I said, I doubt itís a climate problem. It was doing great through the coldest part of the winter but declined suddenly, prior to flushing in the spring. Iíve had a few annona grafts decline after growing well for a season. Iíve heard there are weird graft compatibility and graft failure issues with annonas so I assume itís something to do with that. Iíll give it another try.

I hear great things about Achacha (Achachairu), a relative of the purple mangosteen. I think itís worth trying to grow here. I have several going and will provide more protection than I have in previous years in an effort to get one old enough to hopefully handle our winters.

I think longans should do well here.

Bush2Beach

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Re: Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2023, 05:39:29 PM »
I think it is more cold incompatibility than anything else as Cherimoya is the only Annona that has a chance outside a heated greenhouse that far north and inland. And you'd still need some protection and the right variety to fruit Cherimoya in Napa.
It was a crappy year for Cherimoya in nor cal this year with the cold wet winter.
Aichacharu maybe with a heated greenhouse but will take a lot of dedication and years.
mangosteen you need a greenhouse in south Florida . so you can watch it grow for a season in CA, like growing durian , but it is an experiment that has 1 final outcome.



Iím in Napa and my cherilata died at the graft last winter. I donít think it was an issue of climate. More like something to do with the graft failing or something like that. But Iím not sure about that.
For true mangosteen youíll probably need a greenhouse. All my small Garcinia seedlings died last winter (no purple mangosteen), but Iím trying again with some Achachas.
Good luck!
Aaron

Shame to hear. I was planning on just bringing the mangosteen inside during late fall. Where did you get your cherilata from? I've been having trouble finding them with shipping.

I got it from a friend on this forum. But, like I said, I doubt itís a climate problem. It was doing great through the coldest part of the winter but declined suddenly, prior to flushing in the spring. Iíve had a few annona grafts decline after growing well for a season. Iíve heard there are weird graft compatibility and graft failure issues with annonas so I assume itís something to do with that. Iíll give it another try.

I hear great things about Achacha (Achachairu), a relative of the purple mangosteen. I think itís worth trying to grow here. I have several going and will provide more protection than I have in previous years in an effort to get one old enough to hopefully handle our winters.

I think longans should do well here.

aaronn

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Re: Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2023, 05:54:06 PM »
I think it is more cold incompatibility than anything else as Cherimoya is the only Annona that has a chance outside a heated greenhouse that far north and inland. And you'd still need some protection and the right variety to fruit Cherimoya in Napa.
It was a crappy year for Cherimoya in nor cal this year with the cold wet winter.
Aichacharu maybe with a heated greenhouse but will take a lot of dedication and years.
mangosteen you need a greenhouse in south Florida . so you can watch it grow for a season in CA, like growing durian , but it is an experiment that has 1 final outcome.



Iím in Napa and my cherilata died at the graft last winter. I donít think it was an issue of climate. More like something to do with the graft failing or something like that. But Iím not sure about that.
For true mangosteen youíll probably need a greenhouse. All my small Garcinia seedlings died last winter (no purple mangosteen), but Iím trying again with some Achachas.
Good luck!
Aaron

Shame to hear. I was planning on just bringing the mangosteen inside during late fall. Where did you get your cherilata from? I've been having trouble finding them with shipping.

I got it from a friend on this forum. But, like I said, I doubt itís a climate problem. It was doing great through the coldest part of the winter but declined suddenly, prior to flushing in the spring. Iíve had a few annona grafts decline after growing well for a season. Iíve heard there are weird graft compatibility and graft failure issues with annonas so I assume itís something to do with that. Iíll give it another try.

I hear great things about Achacha (Achachairu), a relative of the purple mangosteen. I think itís worth trying to grow here. I have several going and will provide more protection than I have in previous years in an effort to get one old enough to hopefully handle our winters.

I think longans should do well here.

My results with Garcinia seedlings last year confirm your Achacha prediction. But, Joe Real told me a couple small Achacha seedlings survived outside last winter for him. I think heís in Davis? Anyway, Iím only about half a scientist, so Iím happy to pick and choose my data sets and I donít really have much invested in the project so hopefully Iíll be eating Achachas and youíll be eating your words! Lol, just being silly. Iím definitely pushing it and will be willing to admit defeatÖ eventually.

hin00n

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Re: Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2023, 07:38:27 PM »
I think it is more cold incompatibility than anything else as Cherimoya is the only Annona that has a chance outside a heated greenhouse that far north and inland. And you'd still need some protection and the right variety to fruit Cherimoya in Napa.
It was a crappy year for Cherimoya in nor cal this year with the cold wet winter.
Aichacharu maybe with a heated greenhouse but will take a lot of dedication and years.
mangosteen you need a greenhouse in south Florida . so you can watch it grow for a season in CA, like growing durian , but it is an experiment that has 1 final outcome.



Iím in Napa and my cherilata died at the graft last winter. I donít think it was an issue of climate. More like something to do with the graft failing or something like that. But Iím not sure about that.
For true mangosteen youíll probably need a greenhouse. All my small Garcinia seedlings died last winter (no purple mangosteen), but Iím trying again with some Achachas.
Good luck!
Aaron

Shame to hear. I was planning on just bringing the mangosteen inside during late fall. Where did you get your cherilata from? I've been having trouble finding them with shipping.

I got it from a friend on this forum. But, like I said, I doubt itís a climate problem. It was doing great through the coldest part of the winter but declined suddenly, prior to flushing in the spring. Iíve had a few annona grafts decline after growing well for a season. Iíve heard there are weird graft compatibility and graft failure issues with annonas so I assume itís something to do with that. Iíll give it another try.

I hear great things about Achacha (Achachairu), a relative of the purple mangosteen. I think itís worth trying to grow here. I have several going and will provide more protection than I have in previous years in an effort to get one old enough to hopefully handle our winters.

I think longans should do well here.

Well I'm right on the bay, < 3 miles away. Do you think with Cherimoya rootstock it'd take? According to most online resources custard apple can handle zone 9, and cherimoya can grow in 9b, so shouldn't the child also grow in zone 9b?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2023, 07:40:40 PM by hin00n »

aaronn

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Re: Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2023, 07:46:10 PM »
I donít think Annona reticulata is hardy to zone 9, probably needs 10, Iíd guess.

Bush2Beach

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Re: Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2023, 10:02:03 PM »
I hope so, I wish everyone could be eating Achachairuís.
It sounds like it will be a success either way for you having gone through the experience.

It took me awhile to figure out growing cherimoya from seed and getting them up to grafting size.
Some things take awhile to dial in where within your own microclimate things thrive.

Plant a paw paw orchard! That is the annona family that will do great with 90 and 100ís and low 20ís .

I think it is more cold incompatibility than anything else as Cherimoya is the only Annona that has a chance outside a heated greenhouse that far north and inland. And you'd still need some protection and the right variety to fruit Cherimoya in Napa.
It was a crappy year for Cherimoya in nor cal this year with the cold wet winter.
Aichacharu maybe with a heated greenhouse but will take a lot of dedication and years.
mangosteen you need a greenhouse in south Florida . so you can watch it grow for a season in CA, like growing durian , but it is an experiment that has 1 final outcome.



Iím in Napa and my cherilata died at the graft last winter. I donít think it was an issue of climate. More like something to do with the graft failing or something like that. But Iím not sure about that.
For true mangosteen youíll probably need a greenhouse. All my small Garcinia seedlings died last winter (no purple mangosteen), but Iím trying again with some Achachas.
Good luck!
Aaron

Shame to hear. I was planning on just bringing the mangosteen inside during late fall. Where did you get your cherilata from? I've been having trouble finding them with shipping.

I got it from a friend on this forum. But, like I said, I doubt itís a climate problem. It was doing great through the coldest part of the winter but declined suddenly, prior to flushing in the spring. Iíve had a few annona grafts decline after growing well for a season. Iíve heard there are weird graft compatibility and graft failure issues with annonas so I assume itís something to do with that. Iíll give it another try.

I hear great things about Achacha (Achachairu), a relative of the purple mangosteen. I think itís worth trying to grow here. I have several going and will provide more protection than I have in previous years in an effort to get one old enough to hopefully handle our winters.

I think longans should do well here.

My results with Garcinia seedlings last year confirm your Achacha prediction. But, Joe Real told me a couple small Achacha seedlings survived outside last winter for him. I think heís in Davis? Anyway, Iím only about half a scientist, so Iím happy to pick and choose my data sets and I donít really have much invested in the project so hopefully Iíll be eating Achachas and youíll be eating your words! Lol, just being silly. Iím definitely pushing it and will be willing to admit defeatÖ eventually.

aaronn

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Re: Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2023, 12:26:48 AM »
I hope so, I wish everyone could be eating Achachairuís.
It sounds like it will be a success either way for you having gone through the experience.

It took me awhile to figure out growing cherimoya from seed and getting them up to grafting size.
Some things take awhile to dial in where within your own microclimate things thrive.

Plant a paw paw orchard! That is the annona family that will do great with 90 and 100ís and low 20ís .


Well itís hardly a whole pawpaw orchard, but my trees are starting to bear fruits!






Bush2Beach

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Re: Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2023, 01:55:55 PM »
stoked! there is motivation and seeds to plant more paw paw
 

ScottR

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Re: Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2023, 02:57:58 PM »
aaronn, what varieties of Paw Paw are you growing? You must be warm inland because by paw paws are still sizing up!

aaronn

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Re: Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2023, 08:47:31 PM »
aaronn, what varieties of Paw Paw are you growing? You must be warm inland because by paw paws are still sizing up!

Iíve got a bunch of pawpaw varieties. The 3 in the picture, from left to right are a seedling I started like 15 years ago, Allegheny, and Potomac. First year fruiting for those last two. I also have Wabash, Susquehanna, Tallahatchie, Shenandoah, Atwood, Benson, Chappell, Green River Belle, Lehmanís Delight, Mariaís Joy, Prima 1216. Iíve got a multigrafted tree with Overleese, Tropical Treat, 275-56, VE-21, Jerryís Delight, Halvin, Halvinís Sidewinder, plus I added a bunch more varieties to it this year and grafted several individual trees of new varieties. Iíve gone a bit overboard.

Pau

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Re: Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2023, 09:51:25 PM »
aaronn, what varieties of Paw Paw are you growing? You must be warm inland because by paw paws are still sizing up!

I’ve got a bunch of pawpaw varieties. The 3 in the picture, from left to right are a seedling I started like 15 years ago, Allegheny, and Potomac. First year fruiting for those last two. I also have Wabash, Susquehanna, Tallahatchie, Shenandoah, Atwood, Benson, Chappell, Green River Belle, Lehman’s Delight, Maria’s Joy, Prima 1216. I’ve got a multigrafted tree with Overleese, Tropical Treat, 275-56, VE-21, Jerry’s Delight, Halvin, Halvin’s Sidewinder, plus I added a bunch more varieties to it this year and grafted several individual trees of new varieties. I’ve gone a bit overboard.

Selling any? I dont mind driving to Napa to buy some pawpaw fruits.

aaronn

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Re: Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2023, 02:09:37 PM »
aaronn, what varieties of Paw Paw are you growing? You must be warm inland because by paw paws are still sizing up!

Iíve got a bunch of pawpaw varieties. The 3 in the picture, from left to right are a seedling I started like 15 years ago, Allegheny, and Potomac. First year fruiting for those last two. I also have Wabash, Susquehanna, Tallahatchie, Shenandoah, Atwood, Benson, Chappell, Green River Belle, Lehmanís Delight, Mariaís Joy, Prima 1216. Iíve got a multigrafted tree with Overleese, Tropical Treat, 275-56, VE-21, Jerryís Delight, Halvin, Halvinís Sidewinder, plus I added a bunch more varieties to it this year and grafted several individual trees of new varieties. Iíve gone a bit overboard.

Selling any? I dont mind driving to Napa to buy some pawpaw fruits.

Sorry, no, not selling any pawpaw fruits currently. This is my first year getting fruit from several of these, most still not fruiting. I probably will have some to sell in the future.

aaronn

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Re: Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2023, 02:14:33 PM »
Ö currently starting some cherimoya from seed.

Jack, since youíre starting cherimoya seeds, when theyíre large enough to graft, youíll be able to find several scion wood varieties of cherimoya, atemoya, and other hybrids here on the forum. If youíve got enough seeds going, you can experiment grafting lots of different annonas to see what works well in your location. Generally, Iíve found grafting cherimoya to be easy, but have had some fail after a season. Extra grafts have been useful.

dwfl

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Re: Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2023, 02:42:10 PM »
No chance of achachairu reaching fruiting size in Northern California without serious protection. Not even in the best microclimate.

hin00n

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Re: Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2023, 05:12:48 PM »
Ö currently starting some cherimoya from seed.

Jack, since youíre starting cherimoya seeds, when theyíre large enough to graft, youíll be able to find several scion wood varieties of cherimoya, atemoya, and other hybrids here on the forum. If youíve got enough seeds going, you can experiment grafting lots of different annonas to see what works well in your location. Generally, Iíve found grafting cherimoya to be easy, but have had some fail after a season. Extra grafts have been useful.

Thanks Aaron, thats a great idea. I've been a little intimidated with grafting since trying on citrus, but I'll give it another shot. I've got 14 seeds started. What size is large enough for grafting?

aaronn

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Re: Introduction and Cherilata in Bay Area?
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2023, 05:37:58 PM »
Ö currently starting some cherimoya from seed.

Jack, since youíre starting cherimoya seeds, when theyíre large enough to graft, youíll be able to find several scion wood varieties of cherimoya, atemoya, and other hybrids here on the forum. If youíve got enough seeds going, you can experiment grafting lots of different annonas to see what works well in your location. Generally, Iíve found grafting cherimoya to be easy, but have had some fail after a season. Extra grafts have been useful.

Thanks Aaron, thats a great idea. I've been a little intimidated with grafting since trying on citrus, but I'll give it another shot. I've got 14 seeds started. What size is large enough for grafting?

The thickness of a pencil is the classic recommendation. But you can definitely do larger of smaller. I increasingly favor cleft grafts.
I havenít tried citrus but think that Iíve heard it is more challenging than other fruits.

 

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