Author Topic: Mangosteen grafting questions  (Read 465 times)

booeyschewy

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Mangosteen grafting questions
« on: August 09, 2023, 12:10:55 PM »
I see the older discussions and that prior techniques were unsatisfying. I live in an area of commercial production, am producing seedlings and could in theory obtain material to graft. Has anything developed? True bacupari (the big one) is native here as well in theory for root stock if anyone has tried that. This would be semi commercial endeavor, planted with cacao in agroforestry. Worst case I'm ok leaving them 10+ years to grow in the shade lol. Thanks!

Finca La Isla

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Re: Mangosteen grafting questions
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2023, 02:16:13 PM »
I grow mangosteen commercially.  We harvested 1500kg at our last harvest.  I also have a fruit tree nursery and used to graft mangosteen.  Theyíre easy to graft as are many garcinias, but I try to talk people out of using grafted mangosteen.
Iíve tried scions from different parts of the trees but the result has always been the same.  They do produce faster but fail to develop a good shape and so for a farm I think seedlings is the only way to go.
Peter

elouicious

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Re: Mangosteen grafting questions
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2023, 02:26:02 PM »
I grow mangosteen commercially.  We harvested 1500kg at our last harvest.  I also have a fruit tree nursery and used to graft mangosteen.  Theyíre easy to graft as are many garcinias, but I try to talk people out of using grafted mangosteen.
Iíve tried scions from different parts of the trees but the result has always been the same.  They do produce faster but fail to develop a good shape and so for a farm I think seedlings is the only way to go.
Peter

Can you elaborate a bit more peter?

disappointing if true- the long juvenile period is a real bummer for a genus with such delicious fruits

Finca La Isla

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Re: Mangosteen grafting questions
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2023, 06:03:08 PM »
Grafted mangosteen tends to lean over, never growing properly upright.  They look floppy. You see them staked.
So youíll hear that is because the scion was a branch tip and grows sideways accordingly. Well, there are only so many tree tips to use but on a large mangosteen tree you can find vertical growing branchlets and those are supposed to be ok. 
Iíve used the vertical branchlets and the result was the same.  On another garcinia species, g. parvafolia I did take an actual tree tip for a graft and I experienced the same problem.  Some garcinias can be grafted fine but for me neither mangosteen, cherapu, or Brunei cherry is worth grafting. 
This sentiment about avoiding grafting for planting out mangosteen commercially is common among those familiar with the results.
Peter

elouicious

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Re: Mangosteen grafting questions
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2023, 07:50:57 PM »
Cheers-

As someone not interested in commercial production (and trying to grow one in a large airpot) I am probably okay with staking a tree and maintaining it for the long term in order to avoid the juvenile period.

any further tips? cleft graft? hardwood scions? greenwood scions? grafted onto hardwood or greenwood?


Finca La Isla

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Re: Mangosteen grafting questions
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2023, 09:10:58 PM »
I get that it is a cool thing to have a mangosteen tree in a 15 gallon pot with 20 fruit on it!
I used a cleft graft on an area of wood becoming green perhaps 5/16 thick or so. I wrapped everything with parafilm.
What makes this expensive is that the rootstock needs to be about 2 years old.  With mangosteen I only have experience grafting it onto the same species but I imagine it should be easy enough on another Asian garcinia. I have even grafted garcinia with different color saps successfully. I feel itís an easier graft than pouterias, artocarpus, and durios which are other stuff I am grafting commercially.
Peter

TropicalFruitHunters

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Re: Mangosteen grafting questions
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2023, 04:41:25 AM »
I agree with Peter on all his points.  I've witnessed first hand grafted trees versus seedling trees and there is just no contest.  These trees were at Ian Crown's farm in PR.  Same age or older grafted trees were much much smaller than seedling trees.  They also fall way short on production versus seedlings.  Grafted trees much older than some of the seedlings still cannot compete.  Don't get me wrong...they were all lovely trees.  Their shapes were very nice, very short, round, compact, and I don't believe ever have been pruned...a perfect option for a backyard or greenhouse.  I just don't think they are a winner for a farm.

As for grafting, here in the Asian countries, it looks like they only graft onto mangosteen.  Probably don't figure it worth the risk of any delayed compatibility issues.  The goal is to get fruit on the tree as soon as possible.  This is what gets people excited and makes the sale...even though the tree might only put out 1-3 fruit for several years.  I'm sure it also is plays a role in why the tree is normally so stunted.  Would I have purchased one if available when I had the greenhouse?  Damn right I would!  If someone made these available to people in the states, at a reasonable price, they'd make a killing.  For those doing their own grafting, if you can get the scions, graft away on any garcinia you can.  You might come up with a winner...but hedge yer bets and have some nice mangosteen seedlings available too.

cbss_daviefl

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Re: Mangosteen grafting questions
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2023, 07:47:29 AM »
I read a study comparing grafting results of mangosteen to itself vs other species.  To itself the success rate was over 80%. To other species the success rate was 12%, if I am remembering correctly. 

I grew suitable mangosteen rootstock in 2 years in south Florida and got scions from my Puerto Rico vacation last week.



I agree with Peter on all his points.  I've witnessed first hand grafted trees versus seedling trees and there is just no contest.  These trees were at Ian Crown's farm in PR.  Same age or older grafted trees were much much smaller than seedling trees.  They also fall way short on production versus seedlings.  Grafted trees much older than some of the seedlings still cannot compete.  Don't get me wrong...they were all lovely trees.  Their shapes were very nice, very short, round, compact, and I don't believe ever have been pruned...a perfect option for a backyard or greenhouse.  I just don't think they are a winner for a farm.

As for grafting, here in the Asian countries, it looks like they only graft onto mangosteen.  Probably don't figure it worth the risk of any delayed compatibility issues.  The goal is to get fruit on the tree as soon as possible.  This is what gets people excited and makes the sale...even though the tree might only put out 1-3 fruit for several years.  I'm sure it also is plays a role in why the tree is normally so stunted.  Would I have purchased one if available when I had the greenhouse?  Damn right I would!  If someone made these available to people in the states, at a reasonable price, they'd make a killing.  For those doing their own grafting, if you can get the scions, graft away on any garcinia you can.  You might come up with a winner...but hedge yer bets and have some nice mangosteen seedlings available too.

Brandon

cbss_daviefl

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Re: Mangosteen grafting questions
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2023, 03:36:48 PM »
Brandon

booeyschewy

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Re: Mangosteen grafting questions
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2023, 06:36:35 AM »
I grow mangosteen commercially.  We harvested 1500kg at our last harvest.  I also have a fruit tree nursery and used to graft mangosteen.  Theyíre easy to graft as are many garcinias, but I try to talk people out of using grafted mangosteen.
Iíve tried scions from different parts of the trees but the result has always been the same.  They do produce faster but fail to develop a good shape and so for a farm I think seedlings is the only way to go.
Peter

Thatís what I suspected. Do you grow them in consortiums or monoculture? My plan would be for them to be within a cacao area with standard shade trees ~18x18 meters.