Author Topic: Problem grafting PPC atemoyas  (Read 655 times)

elriba

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Problem grafting PPC atemoyas
« on: April 26, 2023, 11:12:24 AM »
Hi,
I recently tried to graft PPC atemoyas for the second time without success.  Last year I also tried, and the same thing happened.  Let me explain what happened and maybe someone has some idea on what to do.

I grafted the PPC scions onto sugar apple rootstocks.  Within about a week the scions started to sprout, so it seemed like the graft was working great.   At this point it even looks better than the other grafts I have tried  :(....  Then, after about 2-3 more weeks, the new growth dies, and so does the graft.  The same thing happened last year.  I think in total I have done 4-5 grafts... In all cases the graft appears to take very rapidly, but then dies off....   

What could be the problem?  Any ideas? 


skhan

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Re: Problem grafting PPC atemoyas
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2023, 01:06:51 PM »
Hi,
I recently tried to graft PPC atemoyas for the second time without success.  Last year I also tried, and the same thing happened.  Let me explain what happened and maybe someone has some idea on what to do.

I grafted the PPC scions onto sugar apple rootstocks.  Within about a week the scions started to sprout, so it seemed like the graft was working great.   At this point it even looks better than the other grafts I have tried  :(....  Then, after about 2-3 more weeks, the new growth dies, and so does the graft.  The same thing happened last year.  I think in total I have done 4-5 grafts... In all cases the graft appears to take very rapidly, but then dies off....   

What could be the problem?  Any ideas?

Do you have any pictures?
I never really used sugar apple but I've grafted 100s of cherimoya rootstocks by now and failure is not too uncommon.
I've seen plenty of times that the scions are packed full of energy and push out growth in a few days.
Unfortunately, this gets our hopes up but we still need to wait closer to a month to see if the union actually heals.


JR561

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Re: Problem grafting PPC atemoyas
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2023, 01:35:11 PM »
That was my experience with dream on sugar apple this year.

No problems with dream on cherimoya root stocks. 

Seanny

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Re: Problem grafting PPC atemoyas
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2023, 12:09:23 AM »
Which grafting method did you use?

elriba

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Re: Problem grafting PPC atemoyas
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2023, 10:39:06 AM »
Which grafting method did you use?

I have used both a cleft graft and a side cleft graft.  In both cases I got the same result.

I am wondering if there is some sort of incompatibility, maybe partial incompatibility.... 

Thanks.

roblack

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Re: Problem grafting PPC atemoyas
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2023, 10:45:49 AM »
Sugar apple is not good rootstock. I would go with moya, or atemoya.

12Zodiac

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Re: Problem grafting PPC atemoyas
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2023, 11:27:49 AM »
I experienced similar situation with PPC grafts. They would sprout fast then died back. I recently grafted PPC again to 4 different trees and only 1 graft has taken. Keep in mind I have successfully grafted Dream, Dr White, AP2, LM3, Red Geffner, etc.

elriba

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Re: Problem grafting PPC atemoyas
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2023, 02:35:42 PM »
I experienced similar situation with PPC grafts. They would sprout fast then died back. I recently grafted PPC again to 4 different trees and only 1 graft has taken. Keep in mind I have successfully grafted Dream, Dr White, AP2, LM3, Red Geffner, etc.

Thanks for your comments.   And this is using what kind of rootstocks?

Orkine

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Re: Problem grafting PPC atemoyas
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2023, 08:13:31 PM »
I have seen and had this happen many times.
A good scion will push even if you stick it in the dirt, the leaves most likely will not get large then they will die back once they have spent the energy in the scions.  Now I no longer assume I have a take until i get the second flush and nice large leaves.

As suggested, use cherimoya for root stock.  My PPC is grafted on a cherimoya root stock and is happy.  I did successfully graft a Birula to sugar apple but it was the exception.  My go to rootstock for atemoya is cherimoya or other atemoya seedlings.

achetadomestica

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Re: Problem grafting PPC atemoyas
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2023, 10:25:14 PM »
The initial push from the energy in the scion also happens when you use
cherimoya as root stock. Timing is important also, the scions and root stock
are suppose to be just about to push new Spring growth. This year my root stock was
pushing in January well before I got scions to graft. All you can do is keep trying and
as Akin said cherimoya is better root stock. I am starting to germinate and sprout cherimoya
seeds now for next Spring. I have a couple grafts that seem to have took this past Spring and
I tried 5 more a couple weeks ago. I have terrible success ratio and I really appreciate the winners
Edgard If you need some cherimoya seeds I have some extras. They are from last year but I got about
25 out of 35 to sprout so far

kh0110

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Re: Problem grafting PPC atemoyas
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2023, 10:41:38 PM »
This is not a question of rootstock. When an Annona graft pushes in less than a week, it means the graft has failed. And the failure is due to one or more of below:
  • Cambium not matching
  • The cut on scion and/or rootstock is not straight and flat
  • Scion is not "sufficiently" fresh
  • Bad timing
  • ...
The usual culprit is the cambium not matching for whatever reason.
Thera

Orkine

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Re: Problem grafting PPC atemoyas
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2023, 12:12:48 AM »
In most cases that is true.  I have however had some grafts push in less than a week and still survive.
This year I also had some push and die back, then come back again.  I am watching 3 right now that appear to be about to flush again after the first flush dried up. 
In most cases where the flush is early and then dries up, the graft is lost, but not in all cases.

Seanny

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Re: Problem grafting PPC atemoyas
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2023, 02:21:11 AM »
Scion pushes when it absorb water, or sap.
Sometimes cleft and bark graft have an issue of sap flow, flooding the graft union.
This causes the scion to push prematurely.
Itís worst in hot weather or rain or watering the rootstock.

I graft atemoya in July here.
I donít use cleft.
I use inlay side graft.
I donít cut the rootstock off above the graft until a month later.
This gives the graft enough time to callus.
This avoids sap flow issue.

Itís weird that you are having issue with only PPC.
Maybe switch to inlay side graft for this variety.


elriba

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Re: Problem grafting PPC atemoyas
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2023, 07:05:54 PM »
Hi Seanny,
I am unfamiliar with the "inlay side graft".  Do you have a reference I can look up on the internet?

Thanks for your detailed comments,
Edgard

Scion pushes when it absorb water, or sap.
Sometimes cleft and bark graft have an issue of sap flow, flooding the graft union.
This causes the scion to push prematurely.
Itís worst in hot weather or rain or watering the rootstock.

I graft atemoya in July here.
I donít use cleft.
I use inlay side graft.
I donít cut the rootstock off above the graft until a month later.
This gives the graft enough time to callus.
This avoids sap flow issue.

Itís weird that you are having issue with only PPC.
Maybe switch to inlay side graft for this variety.

Seanny

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Re: Problem grafting PPC atemoyas
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2023, 01:13:52 AM »
Hello Edgard,

Itís similar to inlay bark graft.
We could call it inlay bark graft.









No need to trim the flap like I did.


elriba

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Re: Problem grafting PPC atemoyas
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2023, 11:13:20 AM »
Thanks!

Vic8361

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Re: Problem grafting PPC atemoyas
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2023, 09:43:19 PM »
Weíre they kept in the shade?

 

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