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Messages - Zitrusgaertner

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26
Tedburn, maybe you could make another try with high grafted plants. Let's say 80 - 100cm poncirus stem under the scion. I was successful with this concept. And sun protection is very important.

27
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Rootstock bark split
« on: June 15, 2021, 05:35:50 AM »
and keep it dry!

28
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: June 02, 2021, 03:50:00 AM »
Has anyone crossed Poncirus+ and Changsha yet?

Has anybody used PT+ for any new cross yet? There are a lot of interesting things that could be tried. PT+ X Grapefruit Enzo for example. Enzo has a remarkable hardiness and its fruits are quite frostresistant aswell.

29
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: May 27, 2021, 10:09:46 AM »
Very interesting. Did you apply any sun protection? My opinion is, that more citri are killed by sun than by frost alone. They are all on own roots by now, are they? Du you plan to craft some on PT?

30
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: May 26, 2021, 05:51:21 AM »

TaiTri and 5* are more hardy than the most tender Segentranges and less hardy than the hardiest segentranges.
[/quote]

Kumin, what are the hardiest Segentranges?

Of my garden-citri Ichangensis IVIA from seed, Citrumelo 5*, Citsuma Prague and Citrandarin US812 (from seed) are about equal in hardiness. Yuzu3 survived the last winter without any dieback or even loss of foliage. Citrange Morton (on Swingle Citrumelo) and some yuzu from Bernhard Voss died. Most likely my fault caused by wrong protection which allowed the winter sun to heat up the shelter and broke dormancy. Morton was not well established and Swingle might not be the right rootstock. Tmin was -10 to -12. Not really low in fact.

31
That is true, however I lack the space for that, and they're pretty pricey here too, for that price I had a proper glass greenhouse. However I really wished mine was a bit higer, temperature management is difficult at times because the greenhouse's roof height is 2.5m ( = 98.4 inch or so) and it really should be 20% higher at least. But then I'd have to choose a much bigger greenhouse which is wider and longer and again I was not allowed that much space in my garden :(
I am well aware that the large industrial size greenhouses are heaven in terms of temperature management, even without special equipment to regulate it automatically. But that's something I can only dream of.
[/quote]

I dream of going professional with my citrus production  ;)

32
I was talking about a professional greenhouse with at least 1000m better 3000m No hommade version. The more volume cou can enclose the better will get the climate in your greenhouse. With a professional foil greenhouse you can widely open the sidewalls.  ;)

33
If I'd set up a new greenhouse I would prefer a foilhouse. Modern foil greenhouses offer better isolation than glass houses and you can easily remove the walls.

34
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« on: May 11, 2021, 04:42:44 AM »
I am really bad at posting pictures but believe me, I have a seedling of Ichangensis IVIA in my garden that now is in ground for round ten years. Is is 150cm high and was never protected and was never damaged from cold. Is is deeply green an looks much healthier than my poncirus which does not like the soil. It seems to be much more resistant to limestone than PT.
You say you are in Vienna, zone 7b.
Do you think you might be in a part of the city that is actually more like 8a ?
Thank you for sharing the picture and information about your Ichang papeda growing there.

I wonder why my Ichang papedas don't appear to be looking as hardy. Maybe what I have is a different cultivar of Ichang papeda that is not as hardy? Maybe something about the climate here, with its wet winters and lack of heat in the early part of the year?


One additional piece of evidence that points to Yuzu being more likely to be a hybrid is that it is always full of many seeds, and most of those seeds are nucellar, whereas Ichang papeda often seems to have almost no seeds, presumably due to not being pollinated by a different variety, and I think the seeds in Ichang papeda are zygotic.
Typically hybridization (between different species) often results in that sort of situation.

My part of Vienna (north of river Danube) is hot and dry. Zone 8a at least. Tmin in the last 5 years -10C The point is sun protection on clear winter days. Ichangensis is in a shady place. Therefore it does better than Citrumelo. All my outdoor-plants had to take -14 six years ago. Ichangensis lost 2/3 of its leaves but no branches as far as I remember. Citrumelo had severe bark-cracks and die-back of 1/3 of its branches. US812 was not very impressed and showed only minor loss of little twigs. Prag was not harmed at all. So C. ichangensis IVIA (F2) is one of my most hardy citrus in open ground. And it is on its own roots. I will test it as rootstock for Yuzu.

35
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« on: May 11, 2021, 04:32:19 AM »
@Zitrusgaertner Bernhard Voss has an Ichang Papeda at a similiar size of yours. And hardy since years.
Where did you get your plant from?
The seeds came from Bernhard Voss, as far as I can remember. He told me that IVIA would not be very hardy. I kept the young seedlings in the open ground for 3 years. Together with a craftet "very hardy" ichangensis that came from Bernhard. In the first winter the "hardy" C. ichangensis (he tagged it 5*) died and all IVIA seedlings and a few seedlings of another cultivar survived with some damage from winter sun and frost. After three years one or two plants bloomed. I had to repot these plants and some time later planted one of them in ground again and kept another in a container. The latter one bloomed after three or four years. Typival IVIA-fruit. I have a crafted IVIA fom ADAVO aswell. The one from ADAVO had a lot of seeds the fruits of my seedling none.

36
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« on: May 10, 2021, 03:06:26 PM »
Not this plant but its sibling. I have a second plant in pot it started blooming four years ago.

37
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« on: May 10, 2021, 07:09:58 AM »
Funny you should say that. I know several people in Germany and Austria who say that their seedlings are more coldhardy than their plants that are grafted on Poncirus (and also hardier than Poncirus hybrids). I guess it depends on so many factors..

Partially agree with you, my experience with C.ichangensis is very difficult to interpret , its hardiness depends on more factors than that of poncirus. But up to now I have not seen any photos of mature pure ichangensis that survived long term in the Northern part of Europe.

Ilya.
I am really bad at posting pictures but believe me, I have a seedling of Ichangensis IVIA in my garden that now is in ground for round ten years. Is is 150cm high and was never protected and was never damaged from cold. Is is deeply green an looks much healthier than my poncirus which does not like the soil. It seems to be much more resistant to limestone than PT.

38
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Poncirus fruit comparison
« on: December 07, 2020, 08:54:12 AM »
Jiri, a presence of underdeveloped seeds is probably a good sign of zygotic nature of this variety.
Have you also tried to germinated them? In some cases, liberated from testa they are able to give seedlings.

Ilya, will it be of any favour to remove the tegmen aswell? I know it is a delicate work to do so.

Robert

39
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichang papeda tasting / flavor
« on: October 21, 2020, 08:50:27 AM »
I suppose it is possible the tree was originally grown from a seed that came from an Ichang papeda, so genetic recombination, or hybridization is a possibility. It definitely did not have any bad Poncirus trifoliata flavors. And I could even eat the peel, which would be highly unlikely if it was a poncirus hybrid.
[/quote]
What has Citrus trifoliata to do with Citrus ichangensis? Why should Ichang papeda have Poncirus flavors? But what you have found is no Ichanng papeda. There is a Variety with round fruits and a juicy Pulp, but the fruits of Var. "IVIA" look quite different. Your fruits look like Yuzu as Laaz remarked.

40
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: CHIRONJA GRAPEFRUIT
« on: September 30, 2020, 05:52:37 AM »
Snowjunky why are you thinking Grapefruit was less hardy than Oranges? Hardyness depends on Variety. I know two real C. paradisi that can tolerate a minimum of -12C. Do you know a comparable orange tree?

41
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Haydite
« on: September 17, 2020, 01:39:17 PM »
Haydite does not store nutrients therefor it is best for hydro-culture. Broken Haydite might be better. I prefer natural volcano-stuff. It contains several minerals and sulfur.

42
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichangensis froze to death, then bloomed.
« on: June 16, 2020, 08:21:12 AM »
Ichangensis (even the IVIA-clones) is quite hardy and can take down to -15C. Of cause you have to protect young or newly planted trees in the first years (against winter sun for example) For me they do better on their own roots than they do on PT. But they have to establish well. Like all frost hardy citrus. That is essential.

43
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
« on: June 02, 2020, 06:46:36 AM »
Thanks Florian for the posting. This hybrid actually seems to be one of the best hybrids selected so far. I will plant this one as well, I am still looking for a source of material (rice or plants). I have a copy of the Poncirus x Changsha seedlings that Bernhard Voss made in the early nineties. The version I have is tested hardy outdoors to -17C without damage (it was not colder for me yet) and is reliably fruiting every year with fruits, whose skin has 1/3 to 1/4 Poncirin of Poncirus fruits, and the content not at all, pleasant citrus aroma, not sweet, but a bit tangerine-like, for juice, lemonade, jam in my opinion very suitable. I have posted about this several times already. One should take such selected hybrids as crossing partners for further breeding work...then maybe one day you will get a poncirin-free and yet hardy citrus!



Is your 899-Hybrid trifoliate or monofoliate? I have 4 of them. 899A and 899J are monofoliate. 899F an 899H are not. All of them flower.
 

44
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: May 14, 2020, 08:21:54 AM »
this "Chimerer Prage" is very different from mine. Where do the winged petioles come from? The leaves resume some Yuzu or other C.ichagensis hybrid. Very strange!

45
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Poncirus fruit comparison
« on: January 23, 2020, 08:16:21 AM »
Fruit quality of Poncirus seems to vary a lot from year to year. My fruits of 2019 were quite good (Zdenek said, they were the best he had ever tasted). After two weeks of storing there was quite much juice and very few bitterness in it. We had a very long summer and autumn ended with November or the fist week of December. Maybe the fruits are better when they are riper? We had almost no frost until Christmas and the last fruit of Citrumelo 5* I took home was only as bitter as a normal white grapefruit and had also some sweetness.

46
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: CHIRONJA GRAPEFRUIT
« on: December 04, 2019, 10:37:01 AM »
If you seek cold hardy grapefruit go for some russian types like Gruszevednij or try to get hands on Enzo or Welker.  ;)

47
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Looking for Scions
« on: November 28, 2019, 06:42:27 AM »
Interstock crafting is often recommended as a stragedy to get a seedling to erly blooming. But never tried by myself.

48
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: November 21, 2019, 06:22:17 AM »
They may look nice but they won't taste nice  ;)

49
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: November 19, 2019, 03:52:36 AM »

This is my 852 with fruits. Pictures taken last Saturday.

50
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: November 19, 2019, 03:48:47 AM »
so there is one that drops leaves and might be of better quality?

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