My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]

[Peep]

It being summer here it's probably not the cold, but lack of nutrients could be it. These cuttings were in sowing/cutting soil (which had few nutrients) for some months without adding any nutrients. Repotted them a week ago and now they do get nutrients, so I'll see how it goes. Thank you all for the input.

[deRoode]

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Can't promise yet if I'll have budwood available of the smooth skin hanayuzu and yuzu N°3, but I will write it down so I can check in autumn. I do have Yuzu N°3 plants available that I have grafted this spring, if you are interested.
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A grafted yuzu would be nice, if you have a spare 

[Peep]

A grafted yuzu would be nice, if you have a spare 

I think so, I might be able to also help you with a smooth skin hanayuzu plant. I'll send you a message soon.

[SeeSchloss]

Interesting, I'm in Antwerp too.

I don't have a garden though. I used to live in France with a garden and veranda, so now my collection is just trying to survive as it can on my balcony until I move somewhere else with more space.

My own plants are all grown from seeds so they aren't specific varieties, but I just want to say that my C. limon, C. hystrix and C. bergamia trees have been surviving the winters here just fine outside despite not being supposed to be very cold hardy. All growing on their own roots. Also C. junos and C. trifoliata but that's normal for them.

Being in the city helps a lot, and I think we should probably consider our zone to be 9 rather than 8.

[Peep]

Interesting, I'm in Antwerp too.

I don't have a garden though. I used to live in France with a garden and veranda, so now my collection is just trying to survive as it can on my balcony until I move somewhere else with more space.

My own plants are all grown from seeds so they aren't specific varieties, but I just want to say that my C. limon, C. hystrix and C. bergamia trees have been surviving the winters here just fine outside despite not being supposed to be very cold hardy. All growing on their own roots. Also C. junos and C. trifoliata but that's normal for them.

Being in the city helps a lot, and I think we should probably consider our zone to be 9 rather than 8.

Yes, especially if your balcony is south facing and protects against wind. The rooftop that I grow on can still get some heavy wind, but besides this it's a good spot.

Interesting that your hystrix and other non cold resitant varieties have no problem, have you had cold winters since you moved here? For the past winter it's not so surprising, but eventually there will be a winter with some colder temperatures, even if it's just for a few days.

In case you are looking for more citrus plants, I still have 16 plants available for sale https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fajX4HY9GpOcdNYcnwuZrC8mjZdZe6Z8FkhmGQ5onGY/edit?usp=sharing

[poncirsguy]

Can you post a picture of your trees on the roof top.  I grow my trees on my roof top

[SeeSchloss]

Interesting that your hystrix and other non cold resitant varieties have no problem, have you had cold winters since you moved here? For the past winter it's not so surprising, but eventually there will be a winter with some colder temperatures, even if it's just for a few days.

My balcony faces north-west actually, but there is probably some warmth coming from the windows that brings the temperature up a few more degrees.

I've been here since 2018 and there have definitely been subzero temperatures more than a few times, including a few days at -5°C last year around January but I don't have anything less on record at my place. In the first years, I used to bring my plants inside and keep just one specimen of each (among those that I thought might be at least somewhat cold hardy) outside to test it. I did lose a C. australasica and a C. glauca like this. It's no citrus but I also have a Passiflora tripartita (also rated to around -5°C, but likely more fragile than the citruses) growing on my house, and I tend to think of it as an indicator that would die sooner than them.

The estimations on the cold hardiness of C. hystrix on the Internet are all over the place, from -8°C to +2°C, while C. limon and C. bergamia are supposed to be able to withstand -5°C or so. In any case I now consider these plants to be mostly fine down to -5°C. If it was any colder I would take some measures for protecting them.

And thanks for the offer but my wife wouldn't be pleased if I asked for yet more space for plants I'm going to wait for the bigger house first!

[Peep]

Little update.

Repotted and changed the soil of my plants, some of them had some issues with root rot.
Now I used a mix with lava stone and also some pine bark:

9 cups lava (5 cups fine lava 4-8mm and 4 cups coarse 5-15mm)
7 cups potting soil
6 cups pine bark mulch (10 - 25mm)
1 cup sand

Not sure yet if I like using the pine bark, but we'll see how this mix does for now.
Most of the citrus are sitting outside on the roof. After we have finished soms work on a wall that is to the right, I can put them against it. This will help a bit with the wind up there.






I also have a few plants indoors. Two new grafts, a "Smooth Skin Hanayuzu" (from Lenzi) which started growing quickly, and also a US119:



And also a plant (right) where I have made a second graft. First one was Satsuma Maxima, and second (with the plastic bag) is the Smooth Skin Hanayuzu. The Kerji (left) had a new shoot in a spot that would give a nice shape for the plant, but due to the temperatures it hasn't been growing, so I took it inside:





I also made and order from Adavo, which has shipped out today.
I'm still a bit scared of plants from Adavo being infected. I might keep them separate, not really sure how to handle it. Any advice?

I should be receiving these plants:

- Hanayu (Hana Yuzu)
- Hana Yuzu (The "Sudachi" version which isn't Sudachi)
- Trifeola
- Kabosu
- Kishu-mikan            
- Hashimoto Satsuma
- Taiwanica / Nansho Daidai   
- Poncirus x C. unshiu
- C. unshiu x C. junos   
- YUZU N°1
- YUZU N°4
- Citrangeremo
- Glauca x Shekwasha    
- Ichang Papeda IVIA
- Citrus sinensis "GLORY MIČURINA"
- Triploïde Reale (bought for someone else)


Best regards,

[Florian]

Your potting mix sounds very well-draining. That could be a bit too much during hot weather. I once used a similar mix and had to water constantly and the citrus had red spider mites all the time.

I also have a Hana Yuzu "buccia liscia" from Lenzi. It came with a few fruits that really had smooth skin. Oddly enough, later fruits have had a much more bumpy rind. It is not really smooth anymore. I don't have a normal Hana Yuzu anymore for comparison, though.

[Ilya11]

If you mean a pumice for lava, it could be OK, but at least  in France lava is something else- red colored stuff obtained by grinding of volcanic rock.
It is considered unsuitable for citrus cultivation because of high abrasive action on the roots.

[Peep]

If you mean a pumice for lava, it could be OK, but at least  in France lava is something else- red colored stuff obtained by grinding of volcanic rock.
It is considered unsuitable for citrus cultivation because of high abrasive action on the roots.

Unfortunately I could not find pumice anywhere, I don't know why it's so rare. Only way I could buy it was a bigbag (1 cubic meter), which is way too much, but mostly the problem is also that I live in the city and we don't have anything like a driveway for them to put it.

Best I could do was this: https://www.compo.be/fr/produits/paillage/autres/compo-pouzzolane

I hope it won't be too sharp. Do you have any other recommendations for something that could be better?

[Peep]

Your potting mix sounds very well-draining. That could be a bit too much during hot weather. I once used a similar mix and had to water constantly and the citrus had red spider mites all the time.

I also have a Hana Yuzu "buccia liscia" from Lenzi. It came with a few fruits that really had smooth skin. Oddly enough, later fruits have had a much more bumpy rind. It is not really smooth anymore. I don't have a normal Hana Yuzu anymore for comparison, though.

I'm curious if the smooth skin hanayuzu from lenzi is the same as the Hana Yuzu "Sudachi" from Adavo.

For the watering of the plants in summer I might use those drip watering lines, similar to what they use in nurseries. Not sure yet. 

[Ilya11]

Do you have any other recommendations for something that could be better?

Perlite is a good alternative for pumice. Also small clay pebbles.
I personally prefer to use 1:1 mixture of coarse cheap compost  and coconut husk mulch (in France it is sold as Paillage Coco). I  wash it several times with tap water to remove sea salts and equilibrate it with Epson salt solution. Coconut coir is porous and  is  a good exchanger for both cations and anions that prolongates  fertilizer action. 

[Peep]

Perlite is a good alternative for pumice. Also small clay pebbles.
I personally prefer to use 1:1 mixture of coarse cheap compost  and coconut husk mulch (in France it is sold as Paillage Coco). I  wash it several times with tap water to remove sea salts and equilibrate it with Epson salt solution. Coconut coir is porous and  is  a good exchanger for both cations and anions that prolongates  fertilizer action.

Do you let your plants in the compost/coconut mix stay outside in rainy seasons? With how much rain we got here the past weeks, I would be afraid that there would not be enough air in the soil.

And do you have a preference for perlite or clay pebbles? I find conflicting information about which to use. Or is a mix of both recommended?

I was looking at 8-16mm clay pebbles: https://www.brico.be/nl/tuin-buitenleven/planten-potten/bodembedekkers/dcm-kleiknikkers-hydrokorrels-40l/5156218
Or 2-6mm perlite: https://agrifield.nl/products/perliet-100l-zak-premium-perligran

[Ilya11]

They do stay for almost entire winter outside. Coconut coir drains perfectly, never had any problems with roots.
I guess perlite is good, but has a tendance of floating to the surface, while pebbles should be as small as possible.
Seramis pebbles are among most suited link

[Peep]

Plants from Adavo arrived yesterday. Everything looks alright.

As expected the "chimera" doesn't look like a chimera and probably isn't. I will just put it up for sale as an orange.



And here a picture of all the plants together:



I might put the Yuzu N°1, N°4 and Glauca x Shekwasha in the ground in the garden as experiments. These three are not so important to me to have in the collection so if they die it's not the end of the world.

[Peep]

Does someone have some insight on the hardiness difference between satsuma and sudachi/kabosu? Not the average satsuma cultivars, but the more cold hardy ones like Hashimoto and Corsica SRA 145. Would it be correct to say that Sudachi and Kabosu are more cold hardy than these satsuma cultivars?

[1rainman]

Well drained soil that is being watered constantly is pretty ideal for citrus. They don't like mulch or soggy souls like clay though it's possible for them to grow it's not optimal. Regular potting mix works fine but some sand added is even better especially crushed shells. Our sand in Florida is full of shells high in calcium. Citrus love calcium. Bone meal is good fertilizer for them because of this.

Anything in a pot outside on a hot day needs watered almost every day but they seem to grow fast under those conditions. I started adding small amounts of clay and mulch because stuff dried so fast and it's so hot in Florida. I just mean plants generally not specifically citrus. I did mulch my citrus in a pot for similar reasons. Though normally they don't like dampness associated with citrus in the hot summer they dry out so.fast so it's fine.

[1rainman]

Citrus like to dry out between watering they don't like soggy roots. So it's not a problem if they get really dry for a couple days. Good drainage is good for them. Though they can take a lot of water as long as they get to dry out for a bit. Its more common to over water them instead of them drying out. It's hard to dry them out too much because they are built to keep moisture with thick leaves and such.

Shells are almost entirely calcium carbonate. 99.9% will stay in the shell so crushed shell is almost the same as sand but a tiny amount of calcium will leak out which is good but you don't have to worry too much about it affecting salts, ph or being too much because it's small. But almost impossible for citrus to get too much calcium.

Bone meal will release a lot more calcium and other nutrients as it rots and of course fertilizer with micro nutrients should have calcium. Not sure why citrus like it so much. Never heard of it with other plants other than trace amounts. Here in Florida the river water, tap water etc has a lot of calcium due to the shells and such. It makes for really good soil for citrus. Florida had the best oranges in the world until the greening.

Though shells are alkaline. A small amount shouldn't significantly change the soil. Pure sand is neutral ph though a lot of sand are alkaline due to shells or minerals mixed in them.

[Ilya11]

1rainman,
Your post is a very good demonstration how different are requirements for citrus growth at 28 and 48N.

[Millet]

For citrus calcium nutrition, I have always used calcium nitrate every 5 or 6 watering.  As far as I know calcium nitrate is just about the only completely soluble calcium fertilizer.

[Peep]

I though poncirus doesn't like (a lot of) calcium?

Does someone have some insight on the hardiness difference between satsuma and sudachi/kabosu? Not the average satsuma cultivars, but the more cold hardy ones like Hashimoto and Corsica SRA 145. Would it be correct to say that Sudachi and Kabosu are more cold hardy than these satsuma cultivars?

Just quoting this question so it doesn't get buried 

[1rainman]

Poncirus is used as root stock and does well here. I grew my Meyer lemon in Cincinnati in miracle grow potting soil nothing special though I fertilized it.

[1rainman]

In my experience this Shelly sand is junk for growing stuff other than cactus and similar plants like pineapple. But a small amount of it mixed with potting soil or compost plants love it.

[Peep]

Small update.

Got some poncirus fruit from the botanical garden:



Obviously not to eat, but for the seeds. Although I came across one that was seedless, I wonder how often this happens with poncirus?



After squeezing I found one underdeveloped seed:



These two I grafted late in the year, on September 1st. One US119 and one Smooth Skin Hanayuzu. The moisture, sunlight and temperature balance isn't so easy when keeping them inside the house and they don't grow as well as the ones I did earlier, but they seem alright.