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Messages - drymifolia

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Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: mail order mango trees
« on: February 28, 2024, 04:47:29 PM »
Me and my friend bought over 50 trees from them. Good size trees, wrapped carefully, and their rootstock is healthy mature trees.

Are you sure you've got that URL correct? Looks like an alligator farm, not a tree nursery.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango updates and worries, help please
« on: February 27, 2024, 10:34:39 AM »
The ones that look like they are wilting in the stem should probably be discarded, I doubt they'll make it.

Some of the ones in the small square pots may have been damaged when I repotted and separated them, but I would recommend potting up the ones still in polyembryonic community pots. The potting mix I had last season in my greenhouse was definitely less than ideal, I go through a (literal) truckload each year for the avocado project, so I get a cheap mix delivered in bulk that isn't perfect. I make up for the poor drainage by adding sand (cheaper than perlite) and watering infrequently, but they'd be happier in their own bigger pots with better soil, for sure.

The nursery (PlantVine) said that their Monsteras are 100% tissue culture grown, whether green type or otherwise, and that they only carry the "normal" deliciosa, and have never sold borsigiana, so there should be no risk of a mix-up.

More than one way to ID them. However, one of the most important keys is the "ruffles"  . Mature Monstera deliciosa has large waves on the back of its leaf where petiole joint with leaf.

I also inspected my leaves more closely for these ruffles, and I do see what look like the beginning of that on the newest few leaves, so maybe as the plant gets larger it will show them even more:

Thank you for the information! Unfortunately, I am basically incapable of watching YouTube videos for information (I'm a reader, have zero patience for videos), so I am not going to look at the video links, but I'll take your word that I don't want borsigiana for fruit.

I was told that most philodendron species are sold from TC starts, and assumed it was the same for Monstera, but I've reached out to the nursery to ask about that, and to confirm that they are sure this isn't borsigiana. I've had it about two years now. I don't have any photos of when it was first received, but I kept it in a pot for about 6 months and then put it in the ground in my greenhouse in summer 2022. This was what it looked like then:

I haven't tried doing that, but I know that the conclusion of UC researchers after many decades of trying to find a dwarfing rootstock for avocados was that it's not possible. The vigor of the scion is generally controlled by the scion itself, so while you can use cultural practices to limit size or growth rate (less fertilizer, less water, more aggressive pruning, etc.), it's not something you can control via rootstock, other than in minor ways (maybe it will grow a little slower but still reach the same mature size).

But who knows, maybe they just didn't find the right one, or the right combination of interstems.

I might be willing to pay more than the commercial nursery certification rate if it means not having to wait a full year only to potentially graft out of season.

Fruitwood takes orders in November but doesn't begin cutting and shipping until January, and they will hold scions in cold storage beyond January if you specify a later date in your order notes.

I'm not in direct contact with the grower in Switzerland, but I don't think he sells any scionwood, he just maintains a lakeside orchard of varieties he's collected from all over the world. I believe Opal is one of his oldest/largest trees, though, so it has done well for him there.

I had missed your rootstock question: try to find Duke7 if you can. I know that it is also grown as a commercial clonal rootstock in the EU, including Greece, and is likely a bit more hardy than Mexicola. But either one should be fine if you graft low and protect the graft union for a few years.

I would recommend getting your rootstocks now, planting them, and then see if their roots survive next winter before grafting. You would then graft on the new shoots from the roots in late spring, if the top part is killed.

Your post may be deleted, you might want to amend it to specify that you're willing to pay for the cost to cover a phytosanitary certificate rather than it sounding like you're asking people to violate the law. I've used the APHIS system to get a certificate for avocado trees going to Canada and it was pretty easy, but it did end up costing over $200. It's cheaper for nurseries than for regular people, so you're probably better off getting it from a nursery even if you have to wait until next year.

I don't have that variety, but I do know that someone grows it in Switzerland, so it's definitely at least available within the EU, even if not from commercial nurseries.

I would suggest putting your email on the Fruitwood Nursery notification list for the variety and to place your order as soon as you get the email. They might have a little stock soon when they finish sending all their orders from earlier in winter and take stock of what is left, but otherwise their avocado scions are usually in stock for a few days in November or December every year, so you need to act fast when you get the notification.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Fruits in American samoa
« on: February 23, 2024, 05:03:27 PM »
Usually clean seeds are less of an issue than whole fruit or cuttings, but you'll have to check the rules.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Two bareroot pawpaws have shipped . . .
« on: February 23, 2024, 01:37:30 PM »
Actully they were ordered from up your way, drymifolia, from a nursery called Burnt Ridge Nursery.

That's where my 3 in my yard here came from a few years ago! They were very small, but two of the three had good taproots and have done OK, the third one was missing the end of the taproot but seemed like healthy roots otherwise so I planted it. That one has hardly grown in two seasons in the ground, but also hasn't died.

I think they really want more heat than I can offer here, they tend to bud out very late and only grow one flush before turning fall colors in like Sept and going dormant. It doesn't help that they are in one of the cooler microclimates in my yard, but the warm spots all got avocados.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Two bareroot pawpaws have shipped . . .
« on: February 23, 2024, 06:13:33 AM »
You say saplings, but I assume they are grafted?

I would personally put them in the ground ASAP, being careful to avoid damaging the taproots. If the taproots look like they were cut during the barerooting process, you may want to add some curse words and/or prayers to your planting routine. Pawpaws sometimes are very slow to recover from taproot damage.

But I haven't tried growing them in your climate. I grew dozens of seedlings in Maryland many years ago, and have a few small (grafted) trees I planted as bareroots 3 years ago here in a very different type of zone pushing in Seattle (extreme high chill, lack of summer heat). In both cases, the ones with snapped taproots grew much more slowly than their peers.

I think if I were to do it again at this point I'd plant a bunch of seeds directly in the ground and then graft the healthiest ones a couple years later, rather than buying bareroot trees or starting seedlings in pots before transplanting.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: marcotting vs rooting question
« on: February 22, 2024, 12:41:58 PM »
It says 100% success with airlayer, 55% success with cuttings *that still have all their leaves*, and 0% success with cuttings that had their leaves removed

That's similar to Mexican avocados, which root at pretty high rates (for the patient) but only when leaves are left intact. You need to root them under intermittent mist or humidity domes, because it takes many months to root and they will dry out otherwise.

The theory put forth in the old research papers about avocado rooting was that root formation is triggered by a buildup of carbohydrates in the lower stem, which can only occur when you have ongoing photosynthesis in the cutting. I'm guessing it's similar for other species that only root easily with leaves left on.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Ice cream bean questions
« on: February 21, 2024, 03:59:39 PM »
They absolutely don't do frost, and will defoliate and suffer in the 32-40f range.

Hmm... My greenhouse spends a lot of the winter in that range, though never below freezing. I count 38 days below 40F so far this winter, with a winter low of 33.6F. I guess I'll give it a try at least, with low expectations.


And it is probably deliciosa, don't know of anything else commonly available with leaves that big.

I thought maybe it was borsigiana, because the deliciosa I'm used to seeing in Miami has leaves like 3x or even 5x larger than this. I don't know if borsigiana can make OK fruit (I really love deliciosa fruit when fully ripened, so was hoping this might fruit some day).

Definitely not monstera. Don't eat it until you get a positive I'd please!!! What part of Belize was this? I am Belizean(both parents were born there).

It's definitely not deliciosa, but there are like 70+ species in the genus. If it's not some species of Monstera, I'd say it's at least something in that family. I don't think they are all edible, definitely didn't mean to suggest anyone should eat it without a species-level ID.

It has a vaguely Monstera look about it, and I think there are many species that are less-documented, so that would be my guess. The wiki article for the genus includes a pretty long species list as a starting point, though I don't see any obvious matches among the ones with photos:

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Sooty Mold, Pests, and Treatments
« on: February 20, 2024, 09:38:51 AM »
i have a a ton of fungus gnats eating my dragon fruit seedlings (i think its fungus gnats eating it, i might have something else too) and just being pests in general, is there and preferably natural remedies?

I don't believe fungus gnats eat living plant tissue, so it's something else eating the dragonfruit seedlings. My guess based on personal experience with growing dragonfruit here in Seattle is it's slugs. They absolutely love to eat dragonfruit. Check for slime trails and inspect in the evening to find them. Often it's the itty bitty baby slugs on the dragonfruit. You can use slug baits but in the end I've given up on dragonfruit because the slugs cannot be deterred, and the slugs are actually otherwise mostly beneficial in my greenhouse, because they eat the sooty mold and soft scale on avocado leaves, allowing me to avoid any chemical warfare vs that issue.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: mangoes need some TLC
« on: February 19, 2024, 07:17:46 PM »
Sorry about the bad labeling! There was a clump of Sweet Tart seedlings from a single poly seed, another clump from a poly Cotton Candy seed, a bunch of Guava (mango) seedlings from two poly seeds (these were the ones in the smaller square pots), and two PPK seedlings from mono seeds (those are in the tall deepots).

They all seemed happy before winter, but the combination of cold temperatures (mid-upper 30s to low 40s most nights) and high humidity left them prone to some kind of leaf and bud rot, not sure what it was. I've seen similar issues with mango seedlings in prior winters in my greenhouse, and the ones that don't die completely usually bounce back the next summer.

I hope they can recover and thrive now that you've rescued them from their impending compost death sentence.

I recommend watering them with warm (not super hot) water to help them get going again. I did that for one that I brought into my house a few weeks ago and it's already looking like this now and pushing a new flush:

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« on: February 19, 2024, 12:43:28 PM »
I agree with the consensus that black sapote is not a top-tier fruit. But when I was a mostly-homeless kid in Miami, black sapote was near the top of my list in winter, because they are very filling, taste ok, and most people who have trees don't pick them so there were plenty for a hungry urban forager to collect, especially since the trees get huge. They make such a mess that sometimes people thanked me for taking some to make their cleanup slightly easier.

I've had white sapote that was delicious, and others that were unpleasant to eat. Highly variable, but I'm sure the named cultivars that people praise would all be pretty good fruit at least.

My favorite of the "sapotes" (a name used for many different unrelated soft fruit) is the sapodilla, but they are also highly variable in flavor and especially texture.

One of the things that has done really well in my cold greenhouse over the last couple years is the Monstera that I bought as a small quart size tissue culture start and planted in the ground. It was alleged to be deliciosa, but I'm starting to question that ID as the leaves are smaller than I expect for that species, but maybe they will get larger over time.

In any case, it has started spreading a bit, and I'm considering letting it grow across the leaf litter and wood chip mulch under the avocado and citrus trees in the greenhouse, but I'm not sure if it is going to cause the trees any problems.

Does anyone have experience growing Monstera as a ground cover among avocados and/or citrus?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: is there a good general tropical soil mix
« on: February 18, 2024, 11:33:21 PM »
100% agree about Ocean Forest, it's the best potting mix I've ever used for anything in a container, and if there were some reasonable price to buy it in bulk, I'd use it for everything. I have a 20lb bag that just was delivered last week that I'm waiting to use when I pot up my single favorite/most pampered avocado tree from the project this year. One lucky tree in the project each year gets to go from 5gal to 15gal and get an extra winter indoors.

For all the rest, I use a sand/perlite/garden mix blend, but they are never intended to be in a container for more than a year or two before going in the ground.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: is there a good general tropical soil mix
« on: February 18, 2024, 08:44:19 PM »
most of mine are too small to make any assumptions. although, there is P. caerulea smothering the entire backyard to the point where t is uncontrollable

with obvious fungal rot in the fall months as it is dying back above ground).
i am not 100% on this, but i think incarnata is supposed to die back to the ground and than pop up in may, hence the common name "maypop"

Absolutely, but it's not supposed to get fungal rot that kills about half of the root crowns before it goes dormant, with the few survivors sprouting from the few living bits or root in an otherwise rotten root crown. Same thing happened to both the outdoor ones subjected to rain and the greenhouse ones that had controlled irrigation.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Ice cream bean questions
« on: February 18, 2024, 08:40:23 PM »
I am doubtful that bonsai culture will keep these fruiting at a reasonable size.  Mine didnt fruit until it had a 2.5in diam trunk.  It fills its container with 100% roots and even my root pruning it severely along with removing major limbs occasionally doesn't seem to slow its growth.

Ok, thanks for the info! I was imagining a 20 gallon "bonsai" in a grow box that is wide and shallow with removable sides for root pruning. I believe they are referred to as "eight hand" bonsai, referring to the need to have four people to handle them when moving or unpotting them. I'm planning to try something similar for black sapote, but had dreams of ice cream bean also.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: is there a good general tropical soil mix
« on: February 18, 2024, 08:25:23 PM »
most of mine are too small to make any assumptions. although, there is P. caerulea smothering the entire backyard to the point where t is uncontrollable

Hah, that's one of the ones I haven't tried! I was focusing on ones with fruit I wanted to try, or that I already know that I like:

edulis (100% died upon transplanting from sterile mix to my standard potting mix at 6 months).

lingularis (tried germinating in a non-sterile mix and got 0% of 20 seeds).

 maliformis (that one grew to an enormous size in the ground in my greenhouse over the summer, but completely died in the winter, with obvious fungal rot in the stems and root ball when I checked the cambium in late winter).

incarnata (very slow growing and unhealthy, with 85%+ dead after 2 years, both in the ground outside and in the ground in the greenhouse, with obvious fungal rot in the fall months as it is dying back above ground).

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: is there a good general tropical soil mix
« on: February 18, 2024, 05:10:27 PM »
it made my giant granadilla very unhappy

Have you had success with any species of Passiflora here in Seattle? I think they are badly adapted to our local microbes, all four species I've tried have died horrible deaths in my greenhouse over the winter, and it looked to be a fungal issue each time. I've also had horrible damping off any time I've moved new Passiflora seedlings from sterile starting mix to any non-sterile medium that either includes local native soil or has been sitting outside in the rain next to local native soil. Big box store potting mix is usually made regionally and likely contains regional microbes unless it's explicit that it's been sterilized.

A few maypops (out of 40 seeds and 6 cuttings I've started) are clinging to life their second year, but those are the only survivors.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Ice cream bean questions
« on: February 18, 2024, 03:23:42 PM »
I'm happy to see this topic, as I recently ordered a box of Inga (presumably feuillei or a hybrid?) pods from this post, both because I wanted to try them for the first time and also to try starting the seeds for my greenhouse.

I'm mostly interested in learning about their tolerance for frequent cold (non-freezing) temperatures in winter, as my greenhouse is only heated to prevent freezing, and is usually in the 30s and low 40s for most of the winter. Some things like dragonfruit just cannot handle it, while avocados and some south american species like Physalis peruviana flourish and even keep growing vigorously all winter.

Also, whether anyone has tried using bonsai techniques (wide/shallow pot and root pruning) to reduce the vigor a bit. If I end up liking it enough to grow, that would be my long-term plan to help keep it under about 9 feet tall.

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