The Tropical Fruit Forum
Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: sc4001992 on March 25, 2022, 06:58:15 PM
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Ok, I have most of the mulberry varieties (23) that people say tastes good - excellent, and I don't plan to add any more varieties..
I would like to hear which ones you have tasted that is the best tasting to you. I do not plan to add any more varieties since I think I have all that I need to evaluate this, probably will now start getting rid of the ones that are average or not good tasting. I'm planning to keep only two in ground trees and get rid of the rest. I'm now thinking it would be good to find a few good dwarfing rootstocks so when I have it in pots, it will stay small-medium size and not have the roots grow out of the bottom of the pot and take over the yard again. I have two dwarfing rootstock that shows promise so far.
I have been eating many of the different varieties I have grafted on my 7 in ground mulberry trees and for me, I must say the White Pakistan/Australian Green is the number 1 sweetest of all mulberries.
Here's a few photos of the fruits I picked yesterday. I will post more photos later tonight or tomorrow showing how/when you should pick the fruits on the tree so that it is at the best flavor.
If you pick it at the right time when it turns yellow/white, it is by far, the sweetest mulberry you will ever taste. It also does have the melon smell when ripe. The only negative on this variety is that the fruit will not hold long on the tree when it gets ripe so if you don't pick it within 1-2 days, it will fall off the branch.
Many people that have not really waited for the correct time (fully ripe) mentions it has a grass smell or taste, that is not the case if you follow my instructions to determine that it is fully ripe. It just tastes like all honey/sugar, you won't taste another fruit like it.
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So, I would like to hear which ones you have tasted that is the best tasting to you.
If you have any photos of the ripe fruits that would give everyone more information on what the fruits look like.
As my mulbery fruits ripen, I will try to take photos and post here as additional info for those who have not grown some of these other varieties. If my Best Tasting changes as I eat these mulberries I will update it here.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/25R2Xcrd/White-Pakistan-Fruits-2022-Pic1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/cHdTdvKr/White-Pakistan-Fruits-2022-Pic2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/vTfrJ9M1/White-Pakistan-Fruits-2022-Pic3.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZYBVPvkz/White-Pakistan-Fruits-2022-Pic4.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/CLb7XyLv/White-Pakistan-Fruits-2022-Pic5.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Ok, finally able to save my list and show it here...
(https://i.postimg.cc/mZYh1wmz/My-Mulberry-Graft-List-3-25-22.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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A blind tasting session is in order to answer this question, Kaz.
So far, I've only tasted Black Pak and Thai Dwarf. They would get the same vote from me in terms of taste but again, taste is strictly personal.
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I think it's between himalayan and pakistani for me. I really like my king white but sometimes it's just so sweet and plain that it gets meh. I can eat a bowl of pakistani cause of the blend of sour / sweet / herbal. Himalayan is about as good, just a bit drier but I like the peach notes.
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My kids like the white one. I like the way the black pakistan and himalayqn taste best. Didnt really dont care for the everbearing, thai dwarf or the shangrala. Going to ditch shangrala for sure. I have about 8 or more trees so Ill have a few new ones to test at some point like oscar, larry white, persian, and martas himalayan.
Have a couple ungrafted seedlings in the ground also that need to be top worked with something. Probably another white and a black pakistan.
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So, is White Pakistan the same as Australian Green? I'm glad I got this one (Aussie Green) from you, Kaz.
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I have about 6 sources for the long white pakistan looking fruits. I have the three types grafted and they are fruiting so I can say yes, the fruits are about the same size (3-5" long) and they all taste very sweet when you wait for the fruit to be perfectly ripe. So the three which taste and looks identical are;
1. Australian Green
2. White Pakistan
3. Saharanpur Local
I'm updating my list, forgot about #3..
But I do notice the White Pakistan is the most difficult to graft, and both the Australian Green and Saharanpur Local are easy to graft similar to Black Pakistan.
My original White Pakistan I purchase here in Orange County is one of my earliest mulberry tree. It seems to be the dwarf growing version, but I don't know if its the rootstock it is grafted on or the variety. I purchase multiple trees from the same source, he said one was an air-layer from his large tree, the other was grafted.
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any idea where to find mulberries for sale? I don't think I've ever seen them at any shop.
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Middle eastern grocery sells them in the town near here. If they are for sale in a store it will be dried mulberry. I could dry some and send them if you really want to try it.
I see amazon sells dried ones also.
Heres some pics of a couple young trees. This one is the white pakistan tree kaz grafted and sent me a few years ago. It has a lot of fruit for a tiny tree. My kids love going to pick them.
(https://i.postimg.cc/BjvhxtPH/download-20220325-223202.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BjvhxtPH)
This one is the red himalayan and I have a few otjer types grafted on it also.
(https://i.postimg.cc/CRFj82t2/download-20220325-223237.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CRFj82t2)
(https://i.postimg.cc/0M2kdYxP/download-20220325-223309.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0M2kdYxP)
(https://i.postimg.cc/G9fMRb4j/download-20220325-223811.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G9fMRb4j)
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Brad, nice photos of your trees and I like the pictures of your kids picking the fruits. The good thing about the White Pakistan tree is that is does have smaller branches and seems to stay lower to the ground while the Black Pakistan just keeps growing and growing upwards and can reach 20 ft in a few years. I'm digging up my Shangri La and Black Pakistan trees as soon as I have time this year. I do want to save the trees, so I plan to stick it in large pots (trash bid with wheels) and give it to some friends.
I'm glad to see the white pakistan tree is doing well. Your photo of kids picking fruits off the trees is what I had envisioned when I planted the trees. The Thai Dwarf is a good one for kids to pick fruits also since the branches are skinny and long and with the weight of all the fruits (hundreds on each branch) it will bend down, and kids can reach the fruits. Only drawback is that the fruits is not that sweet.
That is a good idea to dehydrate the mulberry, I should try that this season. I do have a dehydrator and just got an air-fryer that should allow it to be dried.
Your Red Himalayan fruits looks good.
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Variables, variables, variables... problems with any study or evaluation... temp., watering, minerals, soil type, etc. etc. etc.
I keep thinking of how bad IMO tomatoes taste in Florida vs. states like Alabama, Tn., etc. lol...
Who ever has all those varieties to evaluate would definitely be the best person to comment. But, one of the given varieties still might taste better in another location, state, time of year ripening, elevation, etc. etc. etc. Pretty similar to mango varieties tasting different in different locations, time of year ripe, amt. of sunshine, rain or watering, etc. etc. etc...
It's still good to hear opinions....
Ok, finally able to save my list and show it here.
(https://i.postimg.cc/mZYh1wmz/My-Mulberry-Graft-List-3-25-22.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Great point. So many variables and a lot boils down to location. The whites are very good and I remember the first time eating them being impressed with concentrated sugar taste. The Himalayan reds are a top contender as well, can be very sweet and leave your hands sticky after harvesting a bunch.
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Variables AND we all have differences in what we like, so it is very subjective, I think Kaz is just looking for what we like and to share that.
Aussie green/White shatoot - Honey melon, very sweet great flavor, my favorite also. Must be picked ripe or they will taste very "green" kinda like grass being cut smells?
I have 3 types of Red Himalayan, RH from Kaz(thanks Kaz!), DMOR9 from Marta, Skinner from Craig Hepworth(Florida Fruit Geek) which is originally from Chris Rollins at Fruit and Spice Park, which is where I think Adam's(Flying Fox) Red Himalayan is from, please set me straight if I am wrong. :)
I have not tried Kaz's, fruit is on, waiting for it to ripen. Just got DMOR9 last season, no fruit yet. Have had Skinner several times, multiple trees, different locations, different stages.
Red Himalayan, Skinner - Unique, complex, sweet. Very hard to describe flavor, best flavor when picked dark red very ripe. If picked early has a vegetable taste kinda like carrot maybe even radishy taste? Vegetable taste goes away when picked fully ripe.
Thai Dwarf - Sweet tart strong flavor. Excellent mulberry flavor, the best way for me to describe this is a coffee analogy, where regular mulberries, Shangri La, Tice, etc are your typical cups of dinner coffee, flavor depends on when/where, Thai Dwarf is like a triple espresso :o , delicious! But some people like a simple coffee and the taste may be too much. BTW, triple espresso is my go to, I like strong robust flavors like the Thai Dwarf. My Thai Dwarf was sourced from Adam's(FFF) farm about 2 years ago.
Worlds Best/Bryce's WB - Very low to ZERO flavor little sweetness. Kinda like licking a sugar cane after it has been squeezed. Will try these as rootstock, they grow very easy from cuttings. Worst tasting mulberry I have ever had.
I, like Kaz, have a lot of mulberry varieties, these are the highlights and lowlight.
Honorable mention:
UF - Thai type, unknown(by me) variety. In Gainesville, University of Florida, Food Forrest, near the Bat Houses. BIGGEST leaf mulberry tree I have ever seen, big tree also. Very tasty, large, juicy, not as good as Thai Dwarf, but really good.
Hope this helps!
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Thank you johnnym33315.
Yes, that is exactly my point in creating this post. So, I and others can get feedback from people in all parts of the country, so those who live in that specific area can get feedback from mulberry growers which ones they like. It's not to say one variety is the best, just asking which one everyone likes the taste best for their personal taste, in their location.
At least these comments here will give some people who are starting to grow mulberries which varieties people like since there are so many to choose from, and it takes 2-3 years to get the full taste of the fruits.
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johnnym33315, thank you for your detailed description on the varieties. After reviewing your comments, I wonder if I have a bad variety of the Thai Dwarf. It tastes just like your description of World's Best, basically not much taste at all even though the fruits look good hanging on the tree. Both my Thai Dwarf and World's Best taste the same here in CA.
I do agree with your comments on the other varieties and when it needs to be picked for best taste.
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I thought the same thing. The thai dwarf I got is bland. Makes loads of boring fruit. I dont think the problem is the weather or soil issues. Thry just arent that tastey.
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Yup, planning to take out the tree, but the Shangri La has a little more taste. I like the Tice better than Shangri La and it seems to grow slower so doesn't get as tall as the Shangri La. My Thai Dwarf is grafted on the Shangri La rootstock and the tree is about 15 ft tall.
Brad your Red Himalayan I grafted on a 3yr old rooted cutting from my Shangri La is looking great, its about 7 ft tall, has a nice canopy but now my son tells me I need to dig it up today or they will trash it when the landscaper comes on Monday for demolition day at his house.
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I have a dwarf Thai and it’s a tart and sweet fruit. It’s not bland at all. My best tasting one is from a mislabel. I thought I was getting a Himalayan, but it’s a shorter and fat fruit. It’s taste like a really sweet raspberry.
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Middle eastern grocery sells them in the town near here. If they are for sale in a store it will be dried mulberry. I could dry some and send them if you really want to try it.
I see amazon sells dried ones also.
it seems the only middle eastern grocery to me is an hour and a half away, not much of a population here I guess. How does dried compare to fresh? I have never seed dried raspberries, blackberries for comparison.
I guess I could grow one but I'm running out of space
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Tommy, if you need a Red Himalayan (from Brad), I can send you some cuttings, just send me a PM.
I'm digging up one tree tomorrow and should have some cuttings for you.
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Kaz, what method gets high successful rate when grafting Pakistan White?
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Lovetoplant, I just hear from people who purchased many cuttings of my White Pakistan cuttings that their grafts did not take. It is one of the more difficult/touchy one of the mulberries to graft. I'm pretty sure if you had a fresh one (like graft it on the day it was cut) it will do better. I try many grafts myself to make sure it will graft ok. I did more than 20 grafts from my large tree and grafted to some rooted cuttings (Shangri La and Black Pakistan) and only got like 6 grafts to take and grow fine. You can use any graft method, some people like the whip & tongue because it has the most contact of the cambium, I just use same size rootstock to scion and use cleft graft.
So, because the White Pakistan (at least the one I have which is on the dwarf growth habit) is so difficult to graft if it is not immediately grafted on the same day, I stopped selling cuttings since the people who buy them will be disappointed even if I give them plenty extras.
In the future, I think I have a source for some good rootstock so I will buy more and graft the difficult ones like the White Pakistan and my rare Sangue e Latte and sell the grafted plants to share with our members here.
In fact, once my Sangue e Latte branches grow a little more this year, I will try to have another contest for a Free Grafted plant. This will be at the end of summer.
Sorry for the long winded reply to a simple question.
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Middle eastern grocery sells them in the town near here. If they are for sale in a store it will be dried mulberry. I could dry some and send them if you really want to try it.
I see amazon sells dried ones also.
it seems the only middle eastern grocery to me is an hour and a half away, not much of a population here I guess. How does dried compare to fresh? I have never seed dried raspberries, blackberries for comparison.
I guess I could grow one but I'm running out of space
You could experiment planting some outside as there are a few varieties that are supposed to be cold hardy enough for this area. Is it worth space in a greenhouse ? I’m leaning towards a No because the trees need to be pretty large to get a decent amount of fruit. The difference between dried and fresh? The flavor is still there but it’s a whole diff experience. I’ve tried dried white mulberries before which you can prolly find at a Whole Foods or other high end markets.
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Middle eastern grocery sells them in the town near here. If they are for sale in a store it will be dried mulberry. I could dry some and send them if you really want to try it.
I see amazon sells dried ones also.
it seems the only middle eastern grocery to me is an hour and a half away, not much of a population here I guess. How does dried compare to fresh? I have never seed dried raspberries, blackberries for comparison.
I guess I could grow one but I'm running out of space
You could experiment planting some outside as there are a few varieties that are supposed to be cold hardy enough for this area. Is it worth space in a greenhouse ? I’m leaning towards a No because the trees need to be pretty large to get a decent amount of fruit. The difference between dried and fresh? The flavor is still there but it’s a whole diff experience. I’ve tried dried white mulberries before which you can prolly find at a Whole Foods or other high end markets.
Well said. I didn’t really know how cold hardy these tropical mulberries are, but my shangri la withstood 15 degrees. I think you can grow them outside - they can withstand freezing temps as long as they are dormant
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Thanks. I am going to try ordering some dried ones and look for a cold hardy type.
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Thanks. I am going to try ordering some dried ones and look for a cold hardy type.
The King Shatoot white mulberries are fantastic dried. I don't care much for them fresh
they are too sweet and after a few they are boring. The Tice is the best I have ever eaten.
But the ones I ate were being watered daily. They taste totally different if you water them heavy
while they are fruiting. My mulberries never get watered and are not as plump and juicy.
When the trees get really big they don't need as much water to taste good either. The best
tasting mulberries for me leave your hands purple after you eat a bunch.
One year I had 5 people sample White shatoot, dwarf everbearing, thai dwarf, Shangri La and Pakistan Black
and all 5 people voted Shangri La #1? There is no way the Shangri La can taste the same in Florida
as California?
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Mike, good to know about the taste of the white pakistan dried, I will definitely be doing that with my fruits. Your white pakistan scionwood I grafted is also nice and large, gives good fruits. I could see how your taste test resulted with the Shangri La being the winner. It has a better sweet and tart taste than the others you had them taste. My Shangri La only tastes good (better than Black Paistan) when it is nice and ripe, if picked to soon it doesn't have the sweet taste. The Tice seems to be consistent in taste, sweet with a little tartness so I will be keeping that one around. I also like the neat color it turns (yellow/red) before it turns all red. Here in CA my Tice tree doesn't get as large or grow vigorous like the Shangri La or the Black Pakistan. I have 3-5 branches of Tice grafted, it may just need another few years before it takes off. I got my scionwood from Frank (FLnative) a few years ago.
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Your tice turns red?
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I'll find a few photos of my Tice fruits. The color goes from green/white, then yellow with half red, then when fully ripe it turns dark red or black like the Shangri La fruits.
Here's the photos from last season.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kXgNK8Gr/Tice-Fruit-pic1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/MpJ4zdt0/Tice-Fruit-pic2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/FsHqzYQz/Tice-Fruit-pic3.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/jqwnbXDS/Tice-Fruit-pic4.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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When the white mulberry is fully yellowed, does it have a pina colada flavor?
Trying to ID a variety whose label was lost.
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Oolie, I couldn't tell you if it tastes like pina colada flavor, someone else might taste it. If your fruit looks like the ones I posted above, then it is probably one of the three I mentioned (White Pakistan, Australian Green, or Saharanpur Local).
Can you take a photo of your white/yellow fruit when it is ripe and post it?
Here's the photo I took last season showing the fruits side by side (no Saharanpur fruits shown).
(https://i.postimg.cc/8Cd7nwyK/Tice-Fruit-1c.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Wow Kaz, I need to get some Australian green scions from you! I would wager it's an easy graft onto Shatoot white.
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Kevin,
No, I would not suggest grafting the Australian Green on the White Shatoot tree. It would be better to graft the Australian Green to any of these; Black Pakistan, Thai Dwarf, Shangri La.
It seems to me that the White Pakistan/Shatoot does not like other varieties grafted on it. Send me a PM for more info.
The Shatoot white and Australian Green tastes the same. I do see that I get more fruits (slightly longer) on the Australian Green and it seems to hold the fruits (to full ripeness) better than the White Pakistan/Shatoot. I have all three whites on the same tree so it's easy for me to make these comparisions.
FYI, all 20+ mulberry varieties I have grafted and fruiting are on 3 adult trees in ground which are 10 feet apart so my taste comparison should be a fair one.
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Lovetoplant, I just hear from people who purchased many cuttings of my White Pakistan cuttings that their grafts did not take. It is one of the more difficult/touchy one of the mulberries to graft. I'm pretty sure if you had a fresh one (like graft it on the day it was cut) it will do better. I try many grafts myself to make sure it will graft ok. I did more than 20 grafts from my large tree and grafted to some rooted cuttings (Shangri La and Black Pakistan) and only got like 6 grafts to take and grow fine. You can use any graft method, some people like the whip & tongue because it has the most contact of the cambium, I just use same size rootstock to scion and use cleft graft.
So, because the White Pakistan (at least the one I have which is on the dwarf growth habit) is so difficult to graft if it is not immediately grafted on the same day, I stopped selling cuttings since the people who buy them will be disappointed even if I give them plenty extras.
In the future, I think I have a source for some good rootstock so I will buy more and graft the difficult ones like the White Pakistan and my rare Sangue e Latte and sell the grafted plants to share with our members here.
In fact, once my Sangue e Latte branches grow a little more this year, I will try to have another contest for a Free Grafted plant. This will be at the end of summer.
Sorry for the long winded reply to a simple question.
Very informative. I appreciate that you went thru all the details.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/rz48SYBv/WS-3-30-22.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rz48SYBv)
Here's my whiteshatoot that was grown from a cutting
For a reference there is a small 2' chang mai 60 mulberry growing in the left front corner
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The Tice seems to be consistent in taste, sweet with a little tartness so I will be keeping that one around. I also like the neat color it turns (yellow/red) before it turns all red. Here in CA my Tice tree doesn't get as large or grow vigorous like the Shangri La or the Black Pakistan. I have 3-5 branches of Tice grafted, it may just need another few years before it takes off. I got my scionwood from Frank (FLnative) a few years ago.
Over 15 years ago the name tag from WPB Plant sale in Dreyer Park said East Coast Mulberry... lol....
It looks like Tice & Grows fast/easy here in Florida.
I like eating them first picking solid black very sweet (fully ripe). After about a hour, I switch to red (not quite fully ripe). The reds give a tart taste... A little later I'll usually get 1/2 mouth full of reds with the blacks etc. etc. etc... Two different taste profiles are easily obtained with the Tice mulberry at varying ripeness...
I have eaten some of the black pakistan at Mikes Trees & More and could not tell much of a difference in this black vs. Tice black. I did not eat enough to want to switch to under ripe black pakistan so I have no idea if tart or not.
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Not sure what kind this one is, but it's been my favorite out of the ones I've tried (unknown ones, Dwarf Everbearing, Dwarf Thai). The tree was on the edge of a vacant lot in Spring Hill, FL, zone 9a. The fruit was sweet, juicy, and stained my hands.
(https://i.postimg.cc/V06y11P5/20190328-183844-2-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/V06y11P5)
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The fruit looks small, it might be a persian mulberry which I hear is one of the best tasting (m. nigra). My shangri la fruits are sometimes small like that, but more like 1-1/2" long and a little fatter fruit.
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Not sure what kind this one is, but it's been my favorite out of the ones I've tried (unknown ones, Dwarf Everbearing, Dwarf Thai). The tree was on the edge of a vacant lot in Spring Hill, FL, zone 9a. The fruit was sweet, juicy, and stained my hands.
(https://i.postimg.cc/V06y11P5/20190328-183844-2-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/V06y11P5)
Looks like dwarf or "world's best". I would say dwarf.
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I really like my Thai dwarf, but can’t keep the iguanas and other things from eating the leaves!
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I have pillaged all the trees at Fruit and Spice And I Vote “Pakistaní” the black variety.
It’s by far my favorite for years running but I’ve only tasted them in that particular geographic location…
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Honest Abe, I like the Black Pakistan also, but have you tried the Australian Green or White Pakistan mulberry, it is much sweeter with no tartness.
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I walked around about 15 Tice Mulberry trees picking some of the new fruit this year. The first week seemed to come later than prior years but I did not recheck dates. I thought it was normally from end of March to end of May here in S. Fl. but maybe I forgot...
Back to Topic: Search for the Best Tasting Mulberry???........... If your really looking for that best tasting mulberry, Skip the first 2 weeks of picking... Why? It's similar to the start of mango season & many other fruits as the tree is rapidly growing initially putting out new leaves and fruit while depleting stored up sugars.... Thus the fruit is NOT as good tasting the first 2 weeks IMO.
IMO for your search for the Best, look for the smaller trees and avoid the huge trees with layers of limbs where the sun does not hit the lower branches much if at all. These lower and shaded middle limbs usually have bland insipid fruit... I usually go to the trees less than 12 ft high with plenty of sun hitting the leaves & fruit for the best tasting mulberries.
So, during my walk I sampled over 40 mulberries. IMO about 35 were insipid and not the best tasting Tice can be. Only about 5 seemed close to prior years quality mid season... But every day should be better... Until the last few weeks of mulberry season... Why??? The worms overtake the fruit faster than we can harvest it. You might not experience this with only a tree or two... Just a few FYI's.... lol
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palmcity, you make some good pointers on when and where to pick the fruits from the tree. I should thin out some of my branches since some fruits are hidden in between branches so it may not taste as sweet as the ones with more direct sunlight. I don't think I have seen any worms in my mulberry fruits here.
I did notice the Thai Dwarf fruits are bland early but at the end of the fruit season it does get a little sweeter.
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Middle eastern grocery sells them in the town near here. If they are for sale in a store it will be dried mulberry. I could dry some and send them if you really want to try it.
I see amazon sells dried ones also.
Heres some pics of a couple young trees. This one is the white pakistan tree kaz grafted and sent me a few years ago. It has a lot of fruit for a tiny tree. My kids love going to pick them.
(https://i.postimg.cc/BjvhxtPH/download-20220325-223202.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BjvhxtPH)
This one is the red himalayan and I have a few otjer types grafted on it also.
(https://i.postimg.cc/CRFj82t2/download-20220325-223237.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CRFj82t2)
(https://i.postimg.cc/0M2kdYxP/download-20220325-223309.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0M2kdYxP)
(https://i.postimg.cc/G9fMRb4j/download-20220325-223811.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G9fMRb4j)
Brad is the red one the Red Himalayan? Did you pick them early? Mine gets dark almost like black Pakistan if I leave them on the tree longer.
I like Black Pakistan, RH, and the Australian green. Waiting for persian black to ripen. PB is a very slow grower for me with very short internode distance. Seems to be a good tree for pots.
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Ken, are you sure you have a persian mulberry? I got some cuttings a little over a year ago and the grafted branches are huge, grows fast like the Red Himalayan. I do see the leaf nodes are much closer than the Black Pakistan as well. I hope my grafted branches get some fruits this season so I can taste the fruits.
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I got my cuttings from Oolie and also from CRFG. Both looked the same to me. I grafted them to 4 different multigrafted trees. They cannot compete against other varieties so I had to remove other varieties on one tree
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I'll take some photos of my Persian mulberry that is grafted on my Black Pakistan (large adult trees) and post it tomorrow. My scionwood was from a person who has been growing his mulberry for a while now, he lives in San Diego. He said the Persian mulberry tastes the best to him.
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My son ate so many mulberries the other day he got sick to his stomach, and has had cramps and been on the toilet a bunch for several days. He was feeling dizzy and had a headache and cramps like when we had covid, i thought he was getting covid again. But then it turned into several days of stomach cramps.
I looked it up, they have pectin and sap latex that upsets some peoples systems and can also mess with your blood surgar. Just an fyi for others out there, use in moderation.
My chickens are going to town on them too, they jump in the trees to get them. Hopefully it doesnt mess them up because I put 8 mulberry trees in their area.
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I have 10 Noir of Spain (M. Nigra) that I started from seed last year they are currently in 3 gallon pots. They seem to be slow growing, they get watered often and I keep them in my pool area because when they were under my oak tree seems the squirrels and rabbits would just bite the trunk in half. I'm hoping to get fruits eventually. The mix I used to pot them in is 50% compost with biochar and 50% peat moss with a little bit of perlite. My everbearing cuttings have far surpassed the M. Nigra as they are already in the ground and fruiting.
I do have a Tice we recently purchased and am hoping to get fruits on it soon and still waiting on our white and red Pakistani's to fruit.
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Deanhooper, if you like Thai Dwarf, here's some photos of my Thai Dwarf tree I took today, it has lots and lots and lots of fruits. So many fruits that it is hard to keep up with picking the ripe fruits to give away to the neighbors.
(https://i.postimg.cc/W4SGXLVR/Thai-Dwf-4-12-22-Pic1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/MTTyLPZn/Thai-Dwf-4-12-22-Pic3.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/28vXT6XP/Thai-Dwf-4-12-22-Pic4.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y9hdFqWD/Thai-Dwf-4-12-22-Pic7.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/fTZxnRb4/Thai-Dwf-4-12-22-Pic9.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/TYC5zjSm/Thai-Dwf-4-12-22-Pic10.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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cotter pin, I'm surprised to hear you are growing the Noir of Spain from seeds. You must have a lot of patience to try to grow out the seeds and wait for it to fruit.
Isn't it much easier to just graft a cutting, then you will have fruits in 2 years. How old is your white pakistan and red himalayan tree/plant? If your everbearing tree is large enough you should graft a few white pakistan and red himalayan scionwood that was cut from a fruiting tree. If you don't know if your trees have fruited before, send me a PM and I have large fruiting white pakistan and red himalayan trees and I will give you a good deal for some cuttings.
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Wow, Kaz, that's amazing.
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Yup, I agree with you. It was like that last year, and the Thai Dwarf keeps fruiting tons for 4-5 weeks. I gave up picking them last year after getting 3lbs of fruits each day. All the neighbors got tired of the fruits.
This year, I am giving away (Free Thai cuttings) scion wood in another fruit forum so I will be cutting most of the branches off this tree as the fruits complete.
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cotter pin, I'm surprised to hear you are growing the Noir of Spain from seeds. You must have a lot of patience to try to grow out the seeds and wait for it to fruit.
Isn't it much easier to just graft a cutting, then you will have fruits in 2 years. How old is your white pakistan and red himalayan tree/plant? If your everbearing tree is large enough you should graft a few white pakistan and red himalayan scionwood that was cut from a fruiting tree. If you don't know if your trees have fruited before, send me a PM and I have large fruiting white pakistan and red himalayan trees and I will give you a good deal for some cuttings.
When I purchased the seeds at a seed exchange, I was thinking 5 years to fruit, but the more I read into them, I now know they they may take up to 10 years. They are still too small to use as a scion/bud wood for grafting at this point. I purchased the red Pakistan about a year ago it was about 5' tall in a 3 gallon pot and put it into the ground right after I purchased it and it is about 8-9' tall now. And, the white Pakistani and Tice I just purchased and put into the ground about 3 months ago. I have actually eaten fruits of of the Tice, only a few... but it's pushing fruits.
I do not know much about grafting mulberries at this point, but if I need some cuttings I will defiantly be in touch with you. Those Thai Dwarf's are off the chain crazy with production! Looking good!
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My son ate so many mulberries the other day he got sick to his stomach, and has had cramps and been on the toilet a bunch for several days. He was feeling dizzy and had a headache and cramps like when we had covid, i thought he was getting covid again. But then it turned into several days of stomach cramps.
Sorry to hear of the mulberry overdosing.
Typical problems that our families/friends have experienced::: Loose stools with some having diarrhea like, Great fear when people see their stool go from brown to black fearing bleeding. The mulberry if black Tice definitely turns the stool black so don't worry as no increase chance of bleeding as far as I know. High levels of sugars causing cramping but none of us are known diabetic and diabetics should eat small amounts of fruit while checking glucose levels.
I usually tell people if you've been constipated and want plant ruffage (probably can skip your metamucil )::: Eat the stems & fruit of the mulberry. If your normal and don't want to have diarrhea, eat small amounts or avoid the extra ruffage of the stems if possible.
I guess if you juice and strain them and let the kids have the juice like grape juice it might be easier to monitor amount consumed and eliminating the extra stem ruffage.... Blood glucose testing machines are easy to use and years ago (last checked by me) they are very quick and relatively easy to use to get immediate and morning blood glucose levels. (I believe too high or too low glucose levels might increase chance of headache... But many other things also might increase odds of a headache... Drink plenty of water as the kidneys are great filters when supplied ample water and regulate electrolytes etc very efficiently...
If you give your family vitamins/minerals etc., you might consider increasing calcium supplementation as the side effect is often constipation.... This might help with the diarrhea safely if following normal maximum daily allowances or more if prescriber allows...
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Sc4001992, I have never had that many mulberries per limb... You are definitely doing something right. (I'm sure a lot right).
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Deanhooper, if you like Thai Dwarf, here's some photos of my Thai Dwarf tree I took today, it has lots and lots and lots of fruits. So many fruits that it is hard to keep up with picking the ripe fruits to give away to the neighbors.
(https://i.postimg.cc/W4SGXLVR/Thai-Dwf-4-12-22-Pic1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/MTTyLPZn/Thai-Dwf-4-12-22-Pic3.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/28vXT6XP/Thai-Dwf-4-12-22-Pic4.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y9hdFqWD/Thai-Dwf-4-12-22-Pic7.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/fTZxnRb4/Thai-Dwf-4-12-22-Pic9.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/TYC5zjSm/Thai-Dwf-4-12-22-Pic10.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
How dwarf is Thai Dwarf really? worth using as root stock to keep tree smaller? I am thinking Red/Black Pakistani if it does keep it somewhat smaller.
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Brad, I'm sorry to hear about your kids getting sick from eating to much mulberries.
Hope they get well soon.
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cotter pin, if you don't know how to graft yet, you can root the following mulberry varieties pretty easily:
- Thai Dwarf
- Black Pakistan
- Shangri La
If you want to try rooting some Thai Dwarf, I will send you some cuttings, you just pay for the shipping cost ($10-$12) depending on the size of the box I use to ship it priority mail.
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ManVFruit, to answer your question, look at the branches on my grafted tree. All those Thai Dwarf are grafted on a Shangri La tree that is in-ground (10-15yrs). The grafted branches shown in the photo of the Thai Dwarf is about the size the Thai Dwarf trunk would be in 2 years if it was a rooted plant. This Thai Dwarf has been grafted a little over 2 yrs ago. It doesn't seem to get a fat a trunk as the Black Pakistan, Shangri La types. The leaf nodes of the Thai Dwarf are closer together as you can see in the photo, but each branch still gets very long, about 10 ft in one year.
I'm planning to grow out some dwarf mulberry cuttings to do my grafting for a smaller tree with multi-grafted mulberries that tastes excellent. So far I hear the only real good dwarf mulberry (size wise) is the Dwarf Girardi mulberry. So I got some cuttings from a friend here on the forum and grafted it up. Once it grows out, I will start rooting some cuttings to use as rootstock.
I also notice that certain White Pakistan mulberry varieties grow slow, has many side branches like hands that do not continue to grow longer. This white pakistan tree does grow smaller/dwarf and it could be kept in a pot and still have fruits. I also have an unknown rootstock on one of my Black Pakistan which seems to keep the grafted tree smaller/compact like to 6-7 ft even after 5 years. I'll post a few photos later of my compact growing white pakistan and black pakistan.
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Wanted to wait a bit for our mulberries to ripen before chiming in but I am lucky to have my home in a natural mulberry grove but think the person who originally owned the home was into mulberries
We have 3 pretty distinct significant trees and about a million seedlings if someone ever wants rootstock-
I don't have varieties on any of these but if someone thinks they can tag them that would be great-
First is the monster, more than 30 feet tall, mostly red and black fruit but some albino and some with the "sangue e latte" look-
Just tasted the first one off this today but didn't get a pic
(https://i.postimg.cc/pygs9ysG/0412221836a-HDR.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pygs9ysG)
(https://i.postimg.cc/gwks9h0J/0412221836b-HDR.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gwks9h0J)
(https://i.postimg.cc/jDhckctm/0412221837-HDR.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jDhckctm)
Second has a very distinct leaf, juicy fruits, our neighbor always trims it at the fence line but it is a heavy producer
(https://i.postimg.cc/ppfJpChr/0412221835a-HDR.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ppfJpChr)
(https://i.postimg.cc/BjN5CvCG/0412221836.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BjN5CvCG)
(https://i.postimg.cc/QBtQYr6K/0412221836-HDR.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QBtQYr6K)
Finally is a similar leaf structure to the first one but the fruit have very few segments and are very large and juicy, I will take lots of pics of the fruit on this one as it ripens-
(https://i.postimg.cc/JyDyB76x/0412221834.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JyDyB76x)
(https://i.postimg.cc/bZvSp91K/0412221834-HDR.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bZvSp91K)
(https://i.postimg.cc/cv5gHtm6/0412221835-HDR.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cv5gHtm6)
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Brad, I'm sorry to hear about your kids getting sick from eating to much mulberries.
Hope they get well soon.
only one of them gets sick. its happened a few times. i think he just eats way too many. but it screws him up for several days at a time.
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cotter pin, if you don't know how to graft yet, you can root the following mulberry varieties pretty easily:
- Thai Dwarf
- Black Pakistan
- Shangri La
If you want to try rooting some Thai Dwarf, I will send you some cuttings, you just pay for the shipping cost ($10-$12) depending on the size of the box I use to ship it priority mail.
For sure, let me know the best way to contact you. Thank you.
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send me a PM message..
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Hi Kaz,
Beautiful photos of those Thai Dwarf Mulberries!
Amazingly productive...
Doesn't hurt living in paradise does it?!
Kevin
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Surprisingly, Thai dwarf berries have been beating FL everbearing over the last week. I like TD when its partly to mostly black, but still has red in it. Good balance of sweet and tart. Seems to be getting better with age, and me knowing when to pick.
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I finally bought some dried (white) mulberries. They taste exactly like raisins to me, though the texture is better. I'll have to keep an eye out for fresh ones.
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Left is red Himalayan, middle is Australian green and right is the LE Cooke’s select black Pakistan.
They are all tasty. I like the BP the best, then RH and the AG. But my wife prefer the AG the best, followed by BP and RH. They are all worth growing.
(https://i.postimg.cc/vxFPNjBJ/F8-CDF95-C-E7-EC-4453-BBE7-DA46908-A2-E17.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vxFPNjBJ)
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Wow Kaz, that is the biggest fruit set I've every seen on Mulberry amazing 8)
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dried mulberries: dutkurusugil
I finally bought some dried (white) mulberries. They taste exactly like raisins to me, though the texture is better. I'll have to keep an eye out for fresh ones.
Brian I want to try Mulberry Molasses
(link below -- But I hope I can find it in it's dried state like link explains or make my own ,
but a bottle of syrup is $40 for 300 gram, but not dried
(also link explains sieved seeds so kind of conflicting information as in prepared crunchy, but want to prepare like picture of fruit paste )
These are made from the crunchy ones for texture , and the molasses dried I think it sound good.
I found a tree that drops fruit , and all of them dried on the ground I want to see if it happens again to get it
besides I did gather the seeds in dried fruit , and it appeared to fruit later extending the growing season
we also In Illinois had a dry summer (lowest river speed ever recorded ) but no other tree's I saw Dried like that
if this is a extremely dry kind could be very healthy
I also think these could be ground into flour for the oils in the seeds (some Middle east countries do that)
Also good for Non Staining side walk if they dry like that , (but first year of observing the tree, and was on blacktop_)
https://www.fondazioneslowfood.com/en/ark-of-taste-slow-food/ein-mulberry-molasses/
Before all that work to see if I like
I hope to try these with Hazelnuts for about $20 for a little over a pound (or 500 grams )
SC400 o1
In my alley I have a white Mulberry hybrid that is a heavy bearer like that Thai Dwarf
(I call truck since a nice expensive truck is always parked under it while fruits , and gets covered
DO you have any pollen to offer -- last year I went to fruit, and spice park for pollen, but need to be more organized with luggage ?)
(https://i.postimg.cc/JHNfgZ4Z/haci-serif-mulberry-fruit-paste-with-hazelnut-500g.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JHNfgZ4Z)
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Thanks Robert, yes it has so many fruits, I need to constantly rake up the dropped fruits everyday. I try to give it to anyone that passes by my yard.
Ken, nice fruits. I agree that when the Black Pakistan is fully ripe like your photos show, it is very good. My Red Himalayan graft must need to be older (maybe 3-4yrs) before I get the fuller size fruits as you have. My RH fruits were still skinny and long and did not have much flesh to eat.
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Kaz i think the RH we have is different from one or more other cuttings other people are growing. Mine are not that big either but it seems to have the best flavor. We all like it better than the other types. I got the other red himalayan from Janet/Marta growing now but its still super small.
I noticed the birds like mulberries and leave the peaches and cherries alone. Its perfect, theres still more mulberry than we can use.
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Kevin, yes it's nice to live in SoCal, everything grows well here for me, loquats, mulberries, citrus, lychee, longans. persimmons, everything I like to eat. Now if I can get some mangos trees to grow in ground and have fruits that would be great.
Brad, yes you are correct, it looks like the Red Himalayan fruits are not as fat as Ken's or others who show it. I also have Marta's DMOR9 grafted so next year it would be interesting to compare fruit size and taste. Her Australian Green, White Pakistan, and Saharanpur Local already had fruits and they seem to all be the same type of fruits. I like my Australian Green fruits more since it has more fruits, seems to be longer, and still tastes very sweet/honey.
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Hey!
Do you know which varieties would do well in tropical climates like we have here in Uganda and are worth it (besides the Thai varieties)?
I am growing some unknown varieties but none of them come even close to the ones I have tried before.
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Kaz i think the RH we have is different from one or more other cuttings other people are growing. Mine are not that big either but it seems to have the best flavor. We all like it better than the other types. I got the other red himalayan from Janet/Marta growing now but its still super small.
I noticed the birds like mulberries and leave the peaches and cherries alone. Its perfect, theres still more mulberry than we can use.
Brad, the tree I gave you, Himalayan DMOR9, is grafted on rootstock I got from Burnt Ridge nursery. I grafted two for myself, one on the same nursery rootstock and one on a rooted Black Pakistan cutting. The one on Black Pakistan is already 5 feet tall after just a year of growth, while the other one is still really small, so maybe graft onto a more vigorous tree. I tried an underripe fallen fruit that had barely colored up and it was surprisingly really sweet.
I’m trialing several other varieties I’m excited about, so still to be seen which is the best. I’ve found that there are a lot of mislabeled varieties out there being sold by nurseries which also makes it challenging when you think you have a certain cultivar.
Janet
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I'm still trying to positively ID the Frank's Yellow. It's a mulberry which if picked at full ripeness (yellow color) has some pina colada taste to it. It's a variety in common circulation that lost it's label, but from what I've read when reading about similar types, I've never seen others picked at yellow stage for a fair comparison.
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I'm still trying to positively ID the Frank's Yellow. It's a mulberry which if picked at full ripeness (yellow color) has some pina colada taste to it. It's a variety in common circulation that lost it's label, but from what I've read when reading about similar types, I've never seen others picked at yellow stage for a fair comparison.
Can I buy or trade a couple sticks of that one?
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Kaz i think the RH we have is different from one or more other cuttings other people are growing. Mine are not that big either but it seems to have the best flavor. We all like it better than the other types. I got the other red himalayan from Janet/Marta growing now but its still super small.
I noticed the birds like mulberries and leave the peaches and cherries alone. Its perfect, theres still more mulberry than we can use.
Brad, the tree I gave you, Himalayan DMOR9, is grafted on rootstock I got from Burnt Ridge nursery. I grafted two for myself, one on the same nursery rootstock and one on a rooted Black Pakistan cutting. The one on Black Pakistan is already 5 feet tall after just a year of growth, while the other one is still really small, so maybe graft onto a more vigorous tree. I tried an underripe fallen fruit that had barely colored up and it was surprisingly really sweet.
I’m trialing several other varieties I’m excited about, so still to be seen which is the best. I’ve found that there are a lot of mislabeled varieties out there being sold by nurseries which also makes it challenging when you think you have a certain cultivar.
Janet
Thanks, Ill keep it in mind. Its only been in the ground a month but it seems to be growing.
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Brad my RH is also very tasty. It’s supposed to be the same one that Martha has. Seems Fatter than Kaz’s RH
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What do the folks on the Temperate Fruit subforum folks have to say about mulberries? Think we might be missing some useful input.
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Brad my RH is also very tasty. It’s supposed to be the same one that Martha has. Seems Fatter than Kaz’s RH
Yeah, its a different version you have. I have that one growing also but the tree is still tiny.
My chickens are eating a lot of mulberry, the coop was full of purple chicken turds. The wild birds are pooping purple everywhere too.
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Brad my RH is also very tasty. It’s supposed to be the same one that Martha has. Seems Fatter than Kaz’s RH
Yeah, its a different version you have. I have that one growing also but the tree is still tiny.
My chickens are eating a lot of mulberry, the coop was full of purple chicken turds. The wild birds are pooping purple everywhere too.
Yeah the birds are hammering my mulberries right now. I basically get none now, just for the birds. Bummer. The hazards of living in the middle of a national forest I guess!
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Kaz, your thai dwarf is crazy productive! My Cooke's pakistan is loaded this year too.
Halfway through the season and it still looks loaded. The birds always eat all the ripe berries before me.
(https://i.postimg.cc/3kqVPbGc/IMG-5254-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3kqVPbGc)
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Here's what mulberries I've grown in Phoenix.
Cooke's Pakistan - my favorite, big sweet flavorful and productive.
Thai Dwarf - very productive and large berries, but very bland.
Australian Green - much smaller berries than pakistan and not as flavorful, just sweet.
Tice - flavorful good size berries, but too tart for me. makes me want to take a Tums. Not very productive.
Tehama - all male flowers when tree is small, but starting to finally produce a few female catkin flowers after 5 years in ground.
Maui - nice sweet medium size berries. Got frost damaged from breaking dormancy too early, earlier than Thai Dwarf or Shangri La. I'm borderline 9a/9b.
Jan's Best Everbearing - it really is everbearing, productive small/medium size sweet berries.
I grafted Sangue e Latte from Kaz on a mulberry I bought from a nursery.
Was going to plant it until I pull it out of the pot and saw nematodes in the roots.
Now I have to graft it again on a clean rootstock.
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My World's Best has gone absolutely bananas with fruit, so much so that I had to stake it as it started leaning heavily. It's only two years old too.
The first round of ripe berries were really blah. Either a hint of acid, or just no flavor at all.
Second round were better, but still fairly blah.
Third round (currently where it's at now) is quite a bit better. Ripe berries are sweeter, and ones that are just under-ripe with a little red on them give you both tart and sweet.
I did an experiment by feeding with Bembe from Foxfarm, which is supposed to improve the flavor of fruiting plants. Not sure if it made a difference, but considering how consistently bland WBM is, I think it helped.
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Fygee, you will find that the Black Pakistan and Shangri La has much more flavor, sweet (Black Pakistan), and sweet & tart (Shangri La). But to me the Australian Green/White Pakistan is the sweetest mulberry so far.
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Our mulberries seem to be behind others in California. Got to taste a few side by side this week of the fruit grown at our farm in Fallbrook. Red Himalyan DMOR9 was probably the sweetest, flavor seemed similar to Black Pakistan but fruit was skinnier, less juicy. Dwarf everbearing was very bland with small fruits, I'm going to remove the plant. Thai dwarf was my husband's favorite, and we all thought it was good. Earlier fruit was not as sweet, but this current crop is sweet and acid and tastes the most like a blackberry and the fruits are firm. I love this plant. Planted as a small 1 gallon rooted cutting last year and already about 8 feet tall and producing an abundant crop. Looks like buds are forming already for another round. Not sure why others in SoCal think it is bland, I'm going to start a lot more plants at the farm so there's plenty for the birds and us. The Thai Dwarf at my home garden in Laguna Beach also gets sweet even without the warm temps, our highs have only been in the 60's most of the spring. Only got a couple Sahararanpur that were ripe, most are still green, it was very sweet with different flavor than the DMOR9. I have read that Saharanpur, White Pakistan, and Australian green are the same, but the leaves on my White Pakistan are definitely different than the Sahararanpur. It hasn't fruited yet to compare the fruits. Still have several more varieties I'm trialing. Noir de Spain has only started to leaf out a couple of weeks ago. Buds on the Noir de Spain are noticeably different looking than all the other mulberries I grow. Didn't take any pics.
Janet
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Our mulberries seem to be behind others in California. Got to taste a few side by side this week of the fruit grown at our farm in Fallbrook. Red Himalyan DMOR9 was probably the sweetest, flavor seemed similar to Black Pakistan but fruit was skinnier, less juicy. Dwarf everbearing was very bland with small fruits, I'm going to remove the plant. Thai dwarf was my husband's favorite, and we all thought it was good. Earlier fruit was not as sweet, but this current crop is sweet and acid and tastes the most like a blackberry and the fruits are firm. I love this plant. Planted as a small 1 gallon rooted cutting last year and already about 8 feet tall and producing an abundant crop. Looks like buds are forming already for another round. Not sure why others in SoCal think it is bland, I'm going to start a lot more plants at the farm so there's plenty for the birds and us. The Thai Dwarf at my home garden in Laguna Beach also gets sweet even without the warm temps, our highs have only been in the 60's most of the spring. Only got a couple Sahararanpur that were ripe, most are still green, it was very sweet with different flavor than the DMOR9. I have read that Saharanpur, White Pakistan, and Australian green are the same, but the leaves on my White Pakistan are definitely different than the Sahararanpur. It hasn't fruited yet to compare the fruits. Still have several more varieties I'm trialing. Noir de Spain has only started to leaf out a couple of weeks ago. Buds on the Noir de Spain are noticeably different looking than all the other mulberries I grow. Didn't take any pics.
Janet
Mine are really far behind others. I was eating handfuls of perfect sweet pakistani off my gf's family tree which I planted last year. Mine are still totally green on pak/himalayan. I had a King White batch earlier in the season and the tree is loaded but has stayed green for weeks. We need the heat and luckily it has finally arrived today and into the next week! Now hopefully the birds and rats don't get them...
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Thai dwarf are great this year. Extremely sweet, with a nice floral flavor. My mom tried one last night, and she was blown away by the flavor. I've picked many of them too early, and don't like them underripe. I've heard they have a nice tartness underripe, but they're just bland to me. But when the stems turn a bit brown they're excellent. That's after the fruit have been fully black for somewhere around 5-7 days. I'm surprised at all the negative reviews they get.
White shatoot is fruiting for the first time, after rooting a cutting in February 2019. The fruits are short and round, not elongated. They aren't good underripe, but if you let them turn from green to white to pinkish brown, a little shriveled, they're nice and sweet, with a melon flavor. The sweetness gives way to an aftertaste I'd liken to melon rind, which isn't great. The fruits will probably improve in the coming years, but thai dwarf is the clear winner so far.
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Nate, I think the Thai Dwarf mulberry will have different taste depending on your location. My Thai Dwarf trees get tons of fruits but they do not have much taste. The last batch of fruits for the season seems to have a little improved taste, some sweet/tart flavor. I did give a lot of fruits to neighbors and other people who walk by the house and they say it tastes good but when I compare the tastes to my other mulberry fruits, the Thai Dwarf is below average in taste.
Sounds to me your white shatoot may not be the correct variety. I have all the long white fruit varieties growing on the same tree (shatoot, australian green, white pakistan, saharanpur local) and none of them have short fruits. Even a one year old graft will have the long white fruits. Also, the white shatoot is really hard to root so it's interesting that you were able to get yours to root.
If you need the real white pakistan/white shatoot then send me a PM message and I will give you a good deal on the cuttings and throw in a few Shangri La if you don't have it.
One of my white shatoot grafts are from Mike's tree, and I grafted it in 2019. The grafted branches are now over 12 ft long and producing tons of long white delicious fruits.
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Last flush of WBM were pretty solid with decent sweetness and flavor. It petered out at the end with some of the berries ripening and others just wilting and falling off.
Got some funky ones that looked like two berries conjoined together, which was a nice surprise.
I presume WBM only fruits once a year in spring, right?
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Hi guys,
I'd like to know your opinion on Sweet Lavender mulberry https://www.starkbros.com/products/fruit-trees/mulberry-trees/sweet-lavender-mulberry?fbclid=IwAR0_JVhnEFk1FMIq488vZTIGCSEUgOAeOY55A_pAvyycMaUZyzJ_JEPnp3o (https://www.starkbros.com/products/fruit-trees/mulberry-trees/sweet-lavender-mulberry?fbclid=IwAR0_JVhnEFk1FMIq488vZTIGCSEUgOAeOY55A_pAvyycMaUZyzJ_JEPnp3o). I got some scions this winter and grafted them on my 30 years old Morus alba, they are already producing a bunch of mulberries (6 or so per graft) and they look a lot like SL, and are really sweet but with some complexity. May is being anomalously warm this year so I don't know if this is a stable trait of the cv or more related to our weather this season, anyway for a 3 months graft they are not bad at all.
(https://i.postimg.cc/JtT4SNcq/Whats-App-Image-2022-05-25-at-10-13-29-AM.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JtT4SNcq)
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Jose,
Nice fruit you have on such an early graft. I would let to many fruits hang or your graft may not grow as fast. I like to leave just a few fruits when my new grafts have fruits before 1 year, just to make sure it is the correct variety. I also got some Lavender mulberry scions a month ago and grafted many on my trees. The pictures I saw of the fruit was more lavender/purple color. I'm sure yours will have more color next year when your grafted branches are larger. I have a purple/white colored fruit from Italay called Sangue e Latte and it did the same thing as yours. The first fruits wasn't as nice looking and tasting as the second year fruits.
Here's a few photos of my Sangue e Latte fruits.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Wp6wZJBL/Sangue-E-Latte-prev7.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/MZD1HJBz/Sangue-E-Latte-prev1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/qRrCB1Mt/Sangue-E-Latte-prev2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Gpw4zXDM/Sangue-E-Latte-prev3.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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For those who have an extended collection of mulberries, how do they compare to M. nigra "Kaester" the black mulberry. My tree is loaded with fruit, not ripe yet, but excellent in flavor with a bit of tartness. I was under the impression that the black mulberry was considered best by many. My tree was sourced from Nelson Westree in CA and is loaded with 1 1/2 inch unripened fruit. No bird activity, yet.
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Jose,
Nice fruit you have on such an early graft. I would let to many fruits hang or your graft may not grow as fast. I like to leave just a few fruits when my new grafts have fruits before 1 year, just to make sure it is the correct variety. I also got some Lavender mulberry scions a month ago and grafted many on my trees. The pictures I saw of the fruit was more lavender/purple color. I'm sure yours will have more color next year when your grafted branches are larger. I have a purple/white colored fruit from Italay called Sangue e Latte and it did the same thing as yours. The first fruits wasn't as nice looking and tasting as the second year fruits.
Thanks Kaz for your answer, so informative. That Sangue e Latte certainly looks similar to Sweet Lavende and mine, specially in the first and second pics. Mine so far has not shown those dark tones when fully ripened, although in the first year get conclusions about phenotype might be risky as you point. My grafts have no problems of vigor, on the contrary, I had to pinch the apical grow from them a few weeks ago to make them branch a little. The roostock is a >30 years old M. alba tree that gets water and nutrients from several other trees in my yard and from the yard of my neighbor so it grows like crazy. I have to keep in check every few days all the suckers from the original variety (worthless in the flavor aspect) and even nigra cvs are going well over 2 meters (7 feet) in their first season. The tree was 8-10 meter high when I decided to get some control of it and let some room and light for other fruit trees so it pushes really hard to get back to its original size.
I wanted to ask your opinion about Spice Park’s variety of Himalayan mulberry describe by Craig Hepworth here https://floridafruitgeek.com/2021/06/30/growing-the-fruit-and-spice-parks-variety-of-himalayan-mulberry-in-north-florida/ (https://floridafruitgeek.com/2021/06/30/growing-the-fruit-and-spice-parks-variety-of-himalayan-mulberry-in-north-florida/). A member from Florida has already commented on the other variety that he recommends, Skinner, and confirms what Craig already explains on his blog, that Skinner is exceptional, but this other one that I link above is the GOAT for him and I would like to know if someone has tried it and shares his opinion about the exceptionality of this cv.
Cheers,
Jose
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Thanks for the offer Kaz, but I need to stop collecting plants that get big. I got the cutting from achetadomestica, so I feel pretty confident it's White Shatoot. I didn't label well, so a mixup is possible, but I really don't think so. I didn't get mulberries from anyone else. He told me his tree was a rooted cutting, but that all his rooting attempts failed. I rooted it in a pot with a sandy soil mix. I read something about rooting M. nigra, that it's very difficult, but the Persians have a technique where they root it in sand or a sandy mix at a certain time of the year, in winter I think.
The tree has an upright growth habit, mostly lobed leaves (some with 5 or more), distinctive orange cambium, and is a slow grower. It fruited very lightly this year, first year fruiting. Lots of seeds in the fruit. It will be interesting to see what the fruits are like next year. When they started coming in not elongated I thought it was a mislabeled Tice or something, but they ripened white.
I've decided my Thai Dwarf tastes very similar to a VdB fig. When really ripe it has that figgy flavor. Have you tried letting yours continue to ripen?
(https://i.postimg.cc/zVfhXpmD/IMG-3320.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zVfhXpmD)
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Nate, if your white Shatoot fruit is the photo you show here, and its from Mike (achetadomestica) then I can tell you for sure you got it mixed up with something else, probably a white mulberry variety. I have many of Mike's white shatoot scion wood grafted on my trees and they are now growing nice and strong. I have plenty of fruits and they are the long skinny white fruits. The graft from his tree is now growing as well as my Austrailian Green and it has good tasting fruits.
I will post a few photos so you can see the leaves and fruits from his tree.
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Probably not the right thread to ask this, as four pages in there hasn't been a mention about it, but is there any love for M. rubra?
I've been filling in gaps left by the freezes with native plants, including a Morus rubra.
Any input on what the fruit is like?
Thanks!
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Looks like I'm going to have to try and track down some Skinner and Himalayan FSP cuttings...
There's a dedicated group of mulberry growers in town that would leap on these like rabid fiends. Since all other mulberries grow here like it's going out of style, they should succeed just fine here without nematode issues.
Doesn't look like Craig sells cuttings or ships grafted trees.
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Probably not the right thread to ask this, as four pages in there hasn't been a mention about it, but is there any love for M. rubra?
I've been filling in gaps left by the freezes with native plants, including a Morus rubra.
Any input on what the fruit is like?
Thanks!
They are highly variable. I have eaten many up north that were so so. They are native to my part of Florida, but I think the ones in Florida must be a sub--species because the leaves on the trees look very different. You rarely see fruits on the wild Florida trees because most of them are under shade and fruit lightly because of it. Critters usually get the fruits that are produced before the get fully ripe. There is one local tree that has very good tasting berries in my opinion, though. It has a good acid level to balence out the sweetness. I tried to get cuttings off the tree, but they did not survive. I will have to go back and try grafting.
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Thanks, Galatians522, so the fruit is *generally* sweet with no acid balance? Or is it insipid? Do you think the cuttings didn't work because of time of year? Thanks!
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Thanks, Galatians522, so the fruit is *generally* sweet with no acid balance? Or is it insipid? Do you think the cuttings didn't work because of time of year? Thanks!
The fully ripe wild fruits I used to eat up north were mostly sweet, a little insipid, and not really remarkable. Many of the ones I have eaten in Florida were sour because I ate them under ripe trying to beat the critters. I would imagine that any variety being sold specifically for fruit would be a cut above the wild types. I really enjoyed the fruits off one wild tree I found--I only got one perfectly ripe fruit but I would have said it was as good as the Black Pakistan--just much smaller with a little more acid. However, that may have been a fluke. I need to get out there and harvest some bud wood off the tree so that I can grow it out and verify the quality level. It is possible that the time of year was a factor in the cutting failure, but I am wondering if this type is harder to root.
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I did a quick taste test today with a person who hasn't tasted many mulberries. She is/was a nurse for me when I had some IV infusion at home. I let her taste the White Pakistan that was ripe, she liked it since it was very sweet. Then I let her taste the Black Pakistan, she said it was good but like the white pakistan better. The last ripe mulberry I had on the tree was the Sangue e Latte, she said it was the best flavor and she liked it the most. It is not as sweet as the White Pakistan but she said it has a very good taste which is different from the other two. I agree with her, it is different and tastes very good. I rate it right up there with Australian Green as the top 2 best tasting mulberry so far. I have not tasted any morius nigra (Persian, Black Beauty, Noir_De_Spain) since my grafts did not have any fruits this year so my favorite may change.
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Looks like I'm going to have to try and track down some Skinner and Himalayan FSP cuttings...
There's a dedicated group of mulberry growers in town that would leap on these like rabid fiends. Since all other mulberries grow here like it's going out of style, they should succeed just fine here without nematode issues.
Doesn't look like Craig sells cuttings or ships grafted trees.
If Skinner is already being propagated among members of TFF, my guess is that Himalayan FSP is also out there already. Aside from these two, Bran and Kaz have mentioned a RH that they grow in SoCal and is outstanding as well, I wonder if is the same than any of the 2 Craig's favorites in Florida or a 3rd top tier cv.
Jose
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Jose, the Red Himalayan variety I grow is from Brad who purchased it from Exotica nursery in San Diego. It seems to be a different version than the DMOR09 (Himalayan) mulberry that Marta sells on her website (reallygoodplants). So there may be four versions of a red long fruited mulberry that looks similar to each other. Once we grow all four variety then we should be able to tell if they are the same.
This seems to be a similar mystery as the long white fruited mulberry that has different variety names but seems to be the same mulberry (King Shatoot, White Shatoot, White Pakistan, Australian Green, Saharanpur Local). But I know for this long white fruited mulberry they are pretty much the same thing, I'm growing all of these varieties and I don't see any difference in the tree or fruit and the taste is the same, sweetest fruits, excellent taste.
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Thanks once again for the info, Kaz. I'm pretty sure that being that methodical and growing the varieties under the same conditions is a matter of time to clarify if all these cvs are at least close enough that we can't tell one from another without molecular analysis. For us who grow them in the yard is more than enough. Here in Europe mulberries trade is also becoming messy regarding names, there are some varieties circulating like Shelli 150 or Black Pakistan that aren't the real deal, for example.
Jose
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I did a quick taste test today with a person who hasn't tasted many mulberries. She is/was a nurse for me when I had some IV infusion at home. I let her taste the White Pakistan that was ripe, she liked it since it was very sweet. Then I let her taste the Black Pakistan, she said it was good but like the white pakistan better. The last ripe mulberry I had on the tree was the Sangue e Latte, she said it was the best flavor and she liked it the most. It is not as sweet as the White Pakistan but she said it has a very good taste which is different from the other two. I agree with her, it is different and tastes very good. I rate it right up there with Australian Green as the top 2 best tasting mulberry so far. I have not tasted any morius nigra (Persian, Black Beauty, Noir_De_Spain) since my grafts did not have any fruits this year so my favorite may change.
My Black Beauty finally has a few fruit this year. It is 10ft tall and wide and been in the ground for 4 years. I thought maybe it won't fruit in Phoenix for some reason because all my other mulberries fruit in the first or second year. It is a very slow/weak grower by mulberry standards. The Black Beauty along with a Noir de Spain were stunted when they were in the part of my yard with poor soil. I move the BB 4 years ago to better soil, but not the Noir de Spain and it's still only 2ft tall. I had an Australian Green grow large in that same poor soil.
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Kaz, your sangue e latte is beautiful. I have white ivory that looks similar but has a little more cream color. The birds got the last of them before I could take a picture.
Here is a picture with sweet lavender, the two on the left are the lavender at different stages, the black ones on the right are Thai dwarf.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7JV2JSYJ/E3370-EEC-D686-403-B-AF6-E-890-F804-BE97-A.png) (https://postimg.cc/7JV2JSYJ)
Of the 8 varieties we’ve tried so far, I liked all of them except for dwarf everbearing. My husband and son liked Thai dwarf best because of the sweet and tart flavor like a really good blackberry. Thai dwarf also has a firmer texture and the fruit doesn’t fall when ripe. We have not tried noire de Spain yet.
I wonder if others who find the Thai dwarf bland would get better flavor if they thinned their fruits. I thin the fruit on most of my trees in general to get better quality. Kaz’s tree is so productive maybe it’s just too much fruit for the tree to sweeten up.
Janet
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Did anyone sample the dmor09 himalaya yet?
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I've tried a few of the DMOR9 before they were ripe and turned black last month. They were surprisingly really sweet at the white, lavender colored stage. The ants have been getting to all of them before they totally color up. So far they have been sweeter than the Black Pakistan even underripe. I didn't taste any berry or acid flavor though.
Tree has grown huge from a scion I grafted a year and half ago. Look forward to trying them ripe next spring.
Janet
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Kaz, your sangue e latte is beautiful. I have white ivory that looks similar but has a little more cream color. The birds got the last of them before I could take a picture.
Here is a picture with sweet lavender, the two on the left are the lavender at different stages, the black ones on the right are Thai dwarf.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7JV2JSYJ/E3370-EEC-D686-403-B-AF6-E-890-F804-BE97-A.png) (https://postimg.cc/7JV2JSYJ)
Of the 8 varieties we’ve tried so far, I liked all of them except for dwarf everbearing. My husband and son liked Thai dwarf best because of the sweet and tart flavor like a really good blackberry. Thai dwarf also has a firmer texture and the fruit doesn’t fall when ripe. We have not tried noire de Spain yet.
I wonder if others who find the Thai dwarf bland would get better flavor if they thinned their fruits. I thin the fruit on most of my trees in general to get better quality. Kaz’s tree is so productive maybe it’s just too much fruit for the tree to sweeten up.
Janet
That's interesting, as Dwarf Everbearing tastes very good here. Some of the most delightful berries I've had have been Dwarf Everbearing. They aren't always great, depending on time of the year, ripeness, weather, and pests. But definitely a keeper for me. Wonder if there are different varieties being called the same thing, or if location/enviro differences are that impactful?