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Messages - pagnr

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651
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Calcium carbonate use for tropicals
« on: August 02, 2022, 05:54:18 PM »
I am also interested in gypsum, what tipe of gypsum is generally used? Does the builders gypsum, the one that combined with water hardens up, can be used for amending?

Gypsum is Calcium Sulphate, It can be used to supply Ca and S. It is useful as a non lime form of Ca. i.e. not Limestone or Dolomite Lime.
Gypsum will not push up the pH like lime because the Sulphur balances the Ca. In pot mixes up to about 1 kg of Gypsum per cubic metre will not alter pH.
The finer the gypsum particles the greater the reaction. Coarse Gypsum particles act as slow release. Fine powder will be used faster.
You can even bust up Gypsum based building plasterboard for a source.
Natural Gypsum is mined from deposits.
Phosphogypsum is a byproduct of Superphosphate, which is derived from phosphate rock. It can contain heavy metals etc.

When I first started investigating pot mix fertilisers, I often over did amendments. That includes an episode of top dressing Citrus rootstock pots with a good handful of coarse,  "slow release" Gypsum. Over time it severely set them back. The rate was too much, and burnt the roots.
Now I would calculate the amount to apply based on the size of the pots.

652
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Calcium carbonate use for tropicals
« on: August 02, 2022, 01:39:24 AM »
Calcium carbonate is basically limestone dust, the most common source.
In horticulture it would be used to supply Calcium and increase the pH of soils or pot mix. i.e. to pH balance acid bog peat in pot mix.
Generally the finer the powder, the more pH reactive it is.
Not sure I would be rushing in to apply it to tropicals, unless your pot mix is low pH.
I think many species prefer neutral to slightly acid soil.
There are other Calcium sources that don't alter pH as easily.

653
Yes it must be common with many species, where selections head off into domestication.
It is interesting that Macadamia is a very recent entry into cultivation, and industry expansion. Less than 100 years ??
Also unlike many other fruit or nut species that we can think of, it was not "cultivated" by the original Australians.
Clearly it was eaten by them, nuts collected and traded, and probably stands of trees protected and interacted with for mutual benefit.
Finger limes from similar rainforest areas have been recently introduced to cultivation as multiple varieties selected from the wild trees, and even some X Citrus hybrids produced.

654
"It is labeled Diammonium Phosphate.
Could be low biuret, but if the product label does not list the biuret content there is no way of knowing."

As far as I know, unless it contains Urea, Biuret shouldn't be an issue because the N is Ammonium.
Otherwise the Biuret warning would apply to other N fertilisers.
Not sure if the Ammonium breaks down to other forms ( urea ?) but without the manufacturing process heat, don't think the Biuret compound can form easily.
ps Ammonium fertilisers also have some warnings, i.e. in cool dull weather plant roots can get problems.


"I tried urea from Alpha Chemicals once and it caused burning and defoliation. Their specification sheet says that biuret is less that 0.5% "

Biuret causes a toxicity symptom. white or yellow leaf margins, plants stop growing.
Low Biuret Urea at high rates, or rates too high for young plants, or not sufficiently mixed and agitated well will still cause burning.
Dog Pee on lawns causes burnt grass.
I once fertilised Citrus seedlings with a liquid Urea fertiliser, Citrus was ok but small Microcitrus dropped their leaves.
Also they got it at the end of the vat, so could have been a heavier concentration slug in the last of the vat.
Since then I increased the agitation of spray mixes, i.e. a circulating return off take on a pump, or occasionally shaking a hand sprayer to re mix spray liquid.

Urea can be harsh at high rates, it is recommended to use it to clean out other chemical residues in farm spray vats.

655
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Why no Subtropical folder/category?
« on: August 01, 2022, 05:09:05 PM »
I can't think of anyone who doesn't like to push the boundaries of what they can grow in their climate.
That ranges from those who grow Tropical Fruit in pots in Melbourne Australia,
to some real kooks that aimed to grow Apples in Far North Queensland, ( at higher elevations ).
Not satisfied with all the true tropical fruit they could grow down on the coast,
or the Apples from Tasmania they could buy at the supermarket.
I am in a temperate area, but can grow plenty of subtropical and tropicals.
As frost has really lessened over the last years, that has become easier,
except for the fruit fly arrival, and their overwintering survival.

656
'Shocking' DNA discovery traces most of the world's macadamias back to one Australian tree
https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2019-05-30/macadamia-research-nuts/11160786
the race is on to preserve wild macadamia trees to improve traits like disease resistance, size and climate adaptability.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2022-07-31/wild-macadamias-threatened-species-genetics-amamoor/101276254

657
There are a lot of Japanese vegetable varieties, i.e. eggplant, pumpkin, sweet potato, that probably can't be substituted with regular types. The cooking styles of Japanese eggplants can be different and some pumpkin and sweet potato have more chestnut flavour in Japanese varieties.
Many of the other vegetable, and how they are used don't quite match the western varieties, i.e. Cabbage family, daikon radish etc.

658
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Growing under LED’s
« on: July 29, 2022, 07:09:44 PM »
 "An iron deficiency is often caused by high pH rather than a shortage of minerals"

Another factor that could induce Iron deficiency in Citrus is high Phosphorous in fertiliser, particularly in container plants.
It is often recommended to keep the P in NPK at around 2 or 2.5 %.
Other sources of P are detergents in recycled soapy water, or water softening agents in the water supply.
Some pot mixes may also contain P sources when mixed.
As stated above, the pH of soil or container mix is as much a factor in nutrient symptoms as the levels of nutrients themselves.

How is the pot soil temperature difference between the indoor lit plants and the outdoor plants ?
Does this affect root activity or rootstock dormancy.

659
The original seedlings were growing ok, as you say. Did you rare root plant in the ground or dig a hole and drop the rootball in ?
Any root setback, or problems with roots moving into soil.
Have you ever tested the soil for Phosphorous levels ? It might be higher than Australian soils overall.
Then again the nut bearing tree you mention at the office garden seems to be ok ?
I would try methods of biological stimulation around the trees.
If small plants they are only using a very small area of soil each, not the whole property.
Possibly a mix of mature compost and sawdust or bigger chips worked into the soil.
You can overcome Phosphorous level problems in containers by using low P,  NPK fertilisers.
P of 2% or lower is commonly used for Citrus seedlings to avoid induced Iron deficiency.

660
I see you also have Myoga ginger. What other non Rutaceae have you collected on the "Tabe" journey ?

661
That's a fair point about being big trees. It lead me to think about dwarfing rootstock for the nectarine / stone fruit to hold it back a bit.
It's a bit extreme but there are dwarf pomegranates var nana. Possibly smaller growing pomegranate cultivars. Heavy pruning might hold them back.

662
I would love to see some pics of the Erem x shikawasa plant and fruit if it has fruited.

663
I am in Australia. Better to track down tubers to propagate. IPomea sweet potatoes do set seeds too, but the new types can be slightly variable.

664
Tropical Vegetables and Other Edibles / Re: Fruity Herbs
« on: July 25, 2022, 06:03:50 PM »
Scented Geraniums is a great one, the coconut scented African geranium.
I am growing that forgot all about it
http://geraniums.momcom.net/?p=541

665
Tropical Vegetables and Other Edibles / Re: Fruity Herbs
« on: July 25, 2022, 04:49:33 AM »
Lemon Basil, such as Ms Burns Lemon Basil from Native Seeds/Search and now more widely.
Salvia elegans "Pineapple Sage"

666
How is the Purple Sweet Potato ? Is that Purple Skin, White flesh or Purple Skin, Yellow Flesh ?
I like those types with chestnut flavour.
The Japanese Satsuma Imo is one of the best of those.
There is also the Okinawa Sweet Potato. That has Purple skin and bright purple flesh.

667
As they are all deciduous trees, you could consider the direction they face, and how they may shade each other in summer, or allow light in in winter.
You wouldn't want to plant them so that one completely shaded the other tree, if they are so close planted.
Nectarine and a Persimmon probably have similar growth rates and will get to similar sizes.
Depending on sun angle, you may be able to prune them to face away from each other into 2 half trees.
A Pomegranate might be a bit slower and smaller than either. You could end up with an over and understory.
Some part shade might be ok for the pomegranate, in a hot climate. Either way you should be able to prune them to advantage both.
No idea if any make better or worse combinations when close planted.

668
The Sowthistles round here are mainly softer leaved kinds, not as many of the prickly edged leafed kind.
Some types are well into the thistle category.
The leaves of the soft leaved types are nice greens, especially younger plants.

669
Cocoyam is a Taro plant, or Elephant Ear, Arecacae.
Yams are vining plants,
The cooked tubers look a bit more like Yams to me, but it is hard to tell.
Uncooked Taro skin has growth rings visible, and usually a stem area on one end, like a carrot.
Yams usually have brown woody looking skin, often with filaments or hairs, no stem area on one end.
Another possibility is Cassava, which looks like a pointy Yam, but with a stem on one end ( unless cut off before sale ).
Pretty sure it is not a Sweet Potato.
This answer reminds me of aa Xmas in Tropical Australia, baked Taro, Yams, Potato, Pumpkin in a cast iron oven, over a campfire.

670
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Shortest Growing Season Citrus
« on: July 22, 2022, 08:50:34 PM »
In this same book Olivier puts Yuzu at -15°C, Kabosu at -12°C and Sudachi only at -10/-11°C.

It would be interesting to find out where these three Citrus are grown in Japan ? ( outside of Hothouse structures )
Probably Yuzu would succeed further North, or at higher altitudes than the others.
There is probably a point where Yuzu no longer grows ok. Northern Japan / Hokkaido ??

Many Citrus fruit are claimed as 'Lemon' alternatives, basically because they are sour acid juiced.
Some I have tried have off flavours that are hard to disguise in drinks or cooking.
Sudachi and Kabosu are however true culinary Citrus in their own right.
They are both unique, and not even substitutes for Yuzu.
These 3 fruits are quite commonly available in Japanese supermarkets, along with Lemon and Lime too.
That is 5 culinary acid Citrus available.
We have 2 in Australia, Lemon and Lime commonly available. ( Calamondin and Makrut/ Kaffir Lime can seasonly be found in Asian grocery stores )

671
Since you grew the Macadamia trees from seed, how did they go as nursery trees in pots before you planted them out ?
Sounds like they were reasonably healthy ?
Did they then go backwards after planting out ?

672
There are plenty of these type of resources in Australia, Macadamia is a major crop in some areas.
http://era.daf.qld.gov.au/id/eprint/1964/4/mac-growing_guide_Part4.pdf
This may be of interest re fertiliser interactions
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/349647218_Phosphorus_and_pH-induced_Iron_Deficiencies_in_Macadamias
Macadamias are pretty widely grown in Australia outside of their original Rainforest areas.
Not sure what issues you are having ? Are the young plants sheltered or exposed ?
Mulching with wood waste might benefit. Composting Macadamia shells might benefit with Mycorhizza.

This relative of the Macadamia is from South America
Genuina avellana, Chilean hazelnut, avellano chileno https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gevuina

673
Japanese Yuzu (C. junos)

You could also try posting on the Citrus section of this Forum
Citrus Buy Sell trade
https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?board=13.0

674
Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Looking for Japanese Acid Citrus [EU]
« on: July 21, 2022, 06:05:36 PM »
On a visit to Japan, ( outer Tokyo area ) I saw various Citrus trees in home gardens, and young trees at plant nurseries.
Specialty Citrus fruit was sometimes seen in supermarkets, i.e. unusual Japanese varieties.
I am wondering if there are any Citrus collectors / hobbyists in Japan ?
Any Citrus Forums in Japan ?
It is not hard to find webpages for Citrus farmers growing less common types,
but that is about as far as I have got.

Mature Flying Dragon tree/budwood
In my climate, ungrafted FD seedlings fruit in about 5 years. Also produce some interesting Off Types.
You can speed up their growth by extra heat, shortening the dormancy period.

675
A few people in Australia sell multi grafted Citrus, but they specialise in multi grafted fruit trees.
https://www.fruitsaladtrees.com/collections/citrus
Not sure if anyone in USA is doing anything similar.
You may need to contact Citrus propagation nurseries directly for a custom order.
Have you also thought of espaliering three trees, one of each variety, this might better use limited space ?
https://citrusgrowersv2.proboards.com/thread/979/project-espalier-lemon-seed?page=1&scrollTo=7045
Also planting three trees on Dwarfing rootstock i.e. Flying Dragon, either in ground or in large containers could be an option ?
Finally can you graft or bud yourself ? Can you buy one variety and add the others ?
Several members here have multi grafted some of their Citrus trees.

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