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Messages - Melenduwir

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51
Citrus General Discussion / Re: How is it possible for apomixis to be lost in a cross?
« on: March 30, 2022, 02:54:06 PM »
Quote from: Walt on March 29, 2022, 11:23:54 PM
What Kumin said was right.
Also, sometimes in a seed with more than one seedling, one of them is zygotic.  You could only tell by seeing a unique seedling among them.
  Since the nucellar embryos in citrus begin developing earlier than the zygotic, could I identify which of multiple seedlings is likely to be zygotic by comparing their size?

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Citrus General Discussion / Re: How is it possible for apomixis to be lost in a cross?
« on: March 30, 2022, 02:49:27 PM »
Quote from: kumin on March 29, 2022, 06:37:58 PM
C-35 citrange seedlings showing a mixture of zygotic and nucellar types. This particular rootstock cultivar is 85% nucellar and 15% zygotic.

I'm guessing you tell which are which by comparing the seedling leaves to the mother plant, and hope that the crossed seedlings are visibly different?  Waiting years for trees to mature and bear fruit in order to identify a subtle cross would be a nightmare for anyone with less resources than a professional breeder.

53
Citrus General Discussion / How can I tell if my key lime is a mutant or polyploidic?
« on: March 29, 2022, 04:39:09 PM »
I thought it would be interesting to try making bonsai - or at least dwarfed potted trees - at home, so I gathered seeds from local trees and from purchased fruit, and set about trying to sprout them.  I'd never had much luck growing citrus of any kind, but I had visited a different grocery and purchased some organic key limes and miniature pink lemons, and to my surprise and excitement I had a very good response, to the point that I had to give away some of the seedlings.

I kept four key lime seedlings, and after a year (warm season outside, cold indoors in a sunny window) three are between 8" and 11" tall.  The fourth, though, grew so rapidly that I had to move it out of the fast food soft drink cup I'd started it in and into a multigallon pot.  It's now roughly two and a half feet fall, and unlike the others hasn't branched.  Lately I've noticed signs that a new branch is budding near the top.

I did a little research and learned a lot about citrus genetics (special thanks to citruspages.free.fr, your site is great!) and was disappointed and intrigued to learn about polyembryony and nucellar citrus.  So all my key limes are clones of the original plant, and probably can't be crossed with most other citrus types available to me, oh well.  But that fourth...

I know for a fact it came from the same key limes as the others, and its leaves are similar enough that I'm sure it's the same species.  But its behavior... they all ought to be more or less identical, right?  How can I tell if I have a mutant or polyploidic version of the key lime?  And if this plant really is genetically different, what are the chances that it might be worth keeping?  (Not in a monetary sense, but as an interested gardener.)

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Citrus General Discussion / How is it possible for apomixis to be lost in a cross?
« on: March 29, 2022, 04:23:54 PM »
I've done a little research on nucellar reproduction in citrus, and I understand that it's associated with several different groups of genes.  It seems that there's no single collection of genes responsible.

I've also encountered some lists of types of citrus that have monoembryonic seeds, including specific cultivars or varieties of some species that vary on this trait.  And some of them (I'd have to go back and doublecheck, but I distinctly recall noticing several) are the result of crossing two or more citrus types that are characteristically polyembryonic and nucellar.

I can easily understand that crossing a true-breeding nucellar plant with a sexually-breeding one might or might not result in a plant that clones itself.  Given the right combinations of genes, I can even understand how two sexually-breeding plants could result in an apomictic one.

*edited to change treat to trait
But how in the world can a forced cross between two highly nucellar types of citrus result in a plant that breeds normally?

I'm particularly interested because I want to try making new citrus varieties from dwarfed, potted plants at home, and the most cold-hardy citruses I can locate are all true-breeding nucellar types.

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