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Messages - Walt

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Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: April 14, 2022, 09:29:33 PM »
The grafts your F2 citranges you sent last summer are showing new growth today.  They n were not exposed to a trae Kansas winter.  They were protected from the worst.  But they went dprmant,
Too soon to know if they will bllom.
I'm wanting to graft each to my  8 year old Korean Pt.  While Pennsylvania and Kansas are both zone 6, there are differences in daily temperature fluctuations etc,

It's been 40 years since I've done a chromosome count.  But I could still tell a triploid from a tetraploid.  Being off by a few chromosomes would still be close enough.
The GRIN at Riverside website says that the material they got as tetraploid F, hindsii was in fact diploid by their count.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: new thoughts on breeding hardier citrus
« on: April 03, 2022, 04:04:15 PM »
This morning I saw the first flower about to open on US 1279.  That's a mandarin x Pt that is more than 95%zygotic.  I don't have anything here to cross it with. 
Kumin's C 35 citrange F2 s haven't put out any new growth this spring, though they are looking good.
But US 1279 can be selfed and give F2 seedlings provided the fruit don't drop as some do.
So I'm excited.

How much for rooted cutting?  Walt

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Sweet or acid-less lemons
« on: March 29, 2022, 11:42:50 PM »
Last week for the first time I bought a sweet lemon.  The juice tasted like sugar water.  The zest was tastless.   Maybe some are better.  But I have no more interest in them,

Sounds like a cross.  Crosses are extremely rare in Key limes, but not impossible.
Mutants are also possible in any variety.  But without radiation or certain chemicals, they are rare too.
Don't throw it out. 
If it doesn't branch. use a single edge razor blade to make a cut into the cambium just above a bud.  The bud should start growing a branch.

What Kumin said was right.
Also, sometimes in a seed with more than one seedling, one of them is zygotic.  You could only tell by seeing a unique seedling among them.  Depending on the recessive genes in the 2 parents, such a zygotic seedling could give zygotic seeds.  But that would not be the way to bet.  Whenever possible, use a mostly zygotic variety as seed parent,

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: First fruits of Citrumelo 5star x Morton cross
« on: March 25, 2022, 03:55:00 PM »
Now that US 1279, 1281, and 1282 citandarins, each with >90% zygotic seeds, and 5* and Bishop citrumelos are in hand, I could make crosses like this like an assembly line.  But my plants are still young, so maybe not this year.
So many good crosses to make.  So little time.
Always good to read about your work Ilya.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Young tree pruning
« on: March 18, 2022, 12:04:23 PM »
you might tie the left  branch down.  That would reduce the apical dominance now shared by both branches, and make the one higher dominant, and encourage the lower on to branch.
I haven't done this with citrus but it works with most tree genera used as bonsai. 

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Cold hardy lemons
« on: March 04, 2022, 11:07:04 AM »
"Other ideas; I want to reach out to an org that helps organize collaborative plant breeding"

Experimental Farm Network.  Google it.  It has been operating for several years. 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Tissue culture
« on: February 24, 2022, 02:31:09 AM »
GA and 2-4D are the most common plant hormones used, and they are not expensive.  But others are needed for some species.  In grad school we used casin hydrolisate to give complete and balanced amino acids.  That had to be sterilized by putting them a filter fine enough to strain out viruses.  Heat would have destroyed them. Just an example of recipe that not easy.
The forum will tell how to set up a sterile chamber on a budget.  One woman would sterilize her bathroom, ceiling, floor, and walls with bleach.  Not a method that caught on with anyone else.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Tissue culture
« on: February 23, 2022, 11:01:57 PM »

There is a forum on tissue culture.  I used to be on it daily.  It is a mixture of professionals and amateurs, mostly amateurs.  It  included grade school students,  It isn't hard if you are willing to take care to sterilise the tissue, the medium, etc. There are shortcuts you can take and shortcuts that will make you fail.
Issues I remember being discussed include how to make substitutions for certain that are hard to get in third world countries, what cheaper chemicals can be substituted for expensive chemicals.  For example you can use sucrose (sugar) from the grocery store rather than guarantied pure sucrose from a chemical supply company  There were many such shortcuts that are fine.  Likewise using baby food jars rather than petri dishes is fine.
The tissue culture culture I did used pre-measured agar and pre-measured MS medium and un-pre-measured sugar. 
I don't remember the prices, but it seems agar, MS medium, and sugar costed about $10 for a liter of basic medium.  A liter of mediom goes a long way. Different species need different hormones to get growth started.  These can get expensive.  But raw coconut milk can substitute for the pure hormones in many species.  Opening a coconut and getting the milk out while keeping it completely sterile can be done.  The species I worked with didn't require more than agar and MS,
Woody species can be very hard to culture, requiring expensive hormones, but in tiny amounts.  I don't know what citrus need but google the question, It will be on line.
I think this is the forum I used to be on. › resources

I have learned some things from Joe450 and others above.
I think he and others here are experienced grafters.  People here generally know hat they are talking about.
Most of my grafting experience is with apples.  I was advised to use dormant scions on stocks that had keft dormancy.  From the first try I got over 90% success.  With practice, I got close to 100% success. 
Grafting plums by the same method gave much lower success rate so I was aware that some plants were harder to graft than others.  I have known others who got near 100% success with plums.
 When I got interested in citrus, I knew they were going to be different because the orange scions were not going be dormant.  But in Niger, I had men who worked for me who had nearly 100% success.
So I was surprised that someone was getting very low success rate grafting fruit trees.  They are working with species I've never heard of.  I always learn something here.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Winter care
« on: February 15, 2022, 07:21:00 PM »
Its a it of work to move them in and out too.
The house is about 120 years old, and not in the best condition.  But paid for,  So it is drafty.  So temperature in the plant room ranges from 70 F down to 40 or maybe a little less.  So there would be little growth in there.
I started building a sunken greenhouse last fall but something more important came up. 
It  will be finished next summer. 

Citrus General Discussion / Winter care
« on: February 15, 2022, 11:26:05 AM »
I'm in the middle of Kansas, in the middle of the lower 48 states.  Usually winters are some days and nights above freezing alternating with days and nights above freezing, and lots of above freezing days and below freezing nights.
Last year was unusual in that the whole winter was unusually warm except about a week in February with unusually cold, below 0 F, day and night. 
That killed a lot of plants that would have been OK if those low temperatures had come on less suddenly.
So this year has been, for here, unusually warm weather/  I have about 300 Ponciris and Citrus x Poniris hybrids under lights.  My lights aren't quite as good as I would like.  So I've been putting the seedlings and parent plants outside on warm days and bringing them inside when freezing temperature are predicted.  So far the plants all look healthy. 
I doubt they are growing as much as they would in a warm room with good light, but they are doing OK.  I  think the short winter nights are reducing their growth. 

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Alternaria and chlorosis
« on: January 29, 2022, 03:32:53 PM »
I have learned a lot here.  Thanks to all who posted.
I got by without this information, but with only 80%-90% success.  This year, knowing that the albinism was due to fungus, which I learned from this forum after last year's planting, I got much better results.  I hope to have even fewer losses next year.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: January 28, 2022, 03:45:06 PM »
Sounds like a good set up.  This year I've just put seeds in 72 cell trays and put them on top of the refridgerater.  It has worked ok. but there is only room for 4 trays at a time.  Nrxt year will be better.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Alternaria and chlorosis
« on: January 28, 2022, 03:41:12 PM »
Good information.  But what concentration sodium  hypochlorite hypochlorite and how long?  And how hot is the water and how long?
I've been using hydrogen peroxide this year with good success.  I used 3% or whatever comes in the bottle at Walmart.  I think it is 3%.  I would put seeds in it and let it stand for a few hours.   

It was only last year that I  learned that the albinism is caused by a pathogen.  I used to breed beans and sorghum.  With Sorghum bicolor x S.  halepense and Phaesiolus vulgarus x Ph. coccineus hybrids, albinos would segregate out for several generations.  I thought I was getting the same thing in interspecific hybrids.  But with the treatment there have been no albinos.

Citrus General Discussion / Zygotic lemons and/or limes?
« on: January 24, 2022, 08:53:36 PM »

II have read that lemons and limes in general have only nucellar seeds.  Are there exceptions? 
I understand that Meyer and  Ponderosa are zygotic but not true lemons,

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: new thoughts on breeding hardier citrus
« on: January 09, 2022, 10:48:25 AM »
What Mikkel said about value of population size was demonstrated by Kumin's 20,000 C-35 seedlings.,
Only 3,000 of them counted as the rest were nucellar.  It gave 12 that have 3 zone 6 winters survived in good health.  Several others survived with damage, some died to the ground but came back,  Given that so many survived, I now think this is going to be easier than I thought.  But I said that above, didn't I?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: new thoughts on breeding hardier citrus
« on: January 08, 2022, 08:36:23 PM »
I know nothing about mangshanensis mandarins.  I'll have to do some searches on those. 
Its true that some of the pedigrees of what I think of as F1s include Changsha which is not pure mandarin.  I don't see this as a problem.  I know of someone who is breeding for zone 7 kumquats.  He is using Meiwa kumquat, which I thought was pure kumquat.   But a few days ago I was reading a publication that quoted Swingle saying he didn't believe Meiwa is pure kumquat.  I certainly wouldn't know the difference.
Kumin has had amazing success using C-35 seedlings,   C-35 is Rusk orange x Pt.  All oranges are from interspecific hybrids.
I'm sure many, most, domestic citrus have been crossed around.  An exceptipn is finger lime.  And it seems some plants in the USA sold as finger lime are an F1 hybrid. 
I don't see a problem with using impure citrus in breeding.  My issue is where can I find useful genes.

I bought him out for now.  They seemed a good project for the bonsai club.  But I could spare a couple of fruit.  PM me.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Is this a fruit? What is it?
« on: December 07, 2021, 05:10:57 PM »
A friend made a guitar neck out of this wood.  It started out bright yellow but it darkened to golden brown in 6 months.  When quarter sawn.  I.e, cut length wise so the cut is at right angle to the growth rings, the wood sparkles.  I think it has silica crystels in it. 

Citrus General Discussion / Re: LLT lemon and LLT lime
« on: December 07, 2021, 04:52:49 PM »
I have read that Finger Lime is an understory plant.  It might be a better LLC (Low Light Citrus) than other citrus.  I don't know.  Maybe some other citrus are understory tree in the wild.  Interest though.


If you don't want the terminal bud, trim it.  But having many side branches will slow down the terminal bud.  Either way works.  One way leaves a central leader, the other doesn't. 
Yes, the end bud on a branch does act as a new terminal bud, but to a lesser degree.  And I think that in general, the more horizontal a branch is, the less effect the terminal bud has.  But this isn't always true.  We have all seen weeping willows, weeping cherries, etc.  Twigs are growing straight down yet not branching much.

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