My opinion as to why your passionfruit isn't setting well.

[starling1]

So I've been watching what happens with my Panama reds in relation to fruit set, and have noticed something that almost certainly affects the rate at which fruit will set.

That thing is rain.

I've heard a lot of theories as to why passionfruit set poorly, ranging from lack of Bees, to Ants robbing pollen. This last is  certainly a fallacy, and makes no difference. In fact I'm sure that Ants do in fact increase pollination.

However, rain is going to. Why? Because the pollen of passiflora is delicate. Delicate enough that rain, or even hosing, will wash it away easily.
I know what you're thinking--so what? The rain would just wash the pollen onto the stigma.

Not so. This is because the stigma are positioned at a considerable elevation above the  stamen. Running water which washes off the pollen will almost never reach the stigma at any point. Go and test if for yourself next time your passionfruit is in bloom. Also, next time it rains, go and inspect the stamen--they will be rubbery and totally devoid of pollen--and you'd have to be extremely lucky for any of that to have come into contact with the stigma.

So my advice is don't water your passionfruit leaves/flowers while it's in bloom. Roots only.

Hope this helps.

s

[Bob407]

I let a passion fruit vine grow at my old house, started from seeds I got from Trade Winds. The vine grew against a fence and grew 20' in each direction and over took a tall maple on the back lot. I never had a single fruit but had plenty of flowers. I removed flowers to pollinate others but no fruit set. I just assumed it wasn't self-fertile. I never had a chance to pollinate it with any other types.

[Ansarac]

Our Lilikoi Yellows get alot of visits from large, black bees in zone 9, and giant yucca moths come at night.

Birds sometimes pick at them and deposit the bright, magenta seeds, underneath nearby fruit trees. The seedlings must be pulled, several times a year, or they will invade the tree and compete for light. I can see where this has the potential to become a pest, in some parts of the world.

A general rule of thumb, which I have noticed, is that fruitful plants can be over-watered, without causing any health problems, outrightly. But, they seem to favor leafy growth, over fruit, imho. Some of my things get very luxurious, jungle-like foliage, yet are not too productive. Other people seem to neglect their hardier plants and get more fruit, I think.   

[greenman62]

ive read that some bees and pollinators do not reach the stigma
i know large bees do... i watched one yesterday on my P. Caerulea
ive also hand-pollinated that one, yet, still no fruit.
Not really worried about that one, its the Edulis i want to fruit.

Last year my 2 year old Incarnata ran 50ft along the fence
it put out dozens of flowers at a time
i hand pollinated several of those also.

For the 3rd year in a row, I  had an Incarnata in a 5 gallon container.
it always seems to set fruit in the container
Last year, it was my only passionfruit of the season.

My theory, is, they will fruit much easier, if in a container
or, if the roots are somehow contained.
I may have read this somewhere too
I had a melon do the same thing.

now, if i can get my Edulis to even flower...

[Vernmented]

I have read and my current experience is that the vines need to be around a year old or more. Mine flowered the first year and I did get a couple fruit to set but now my Passiflora edulis has its first heavy fruit set. Hopefully I can get my quadrangularis to hold some fruit this year.

[Mike T]

I am not so sure about the rain as heaviest fruit set in my district is during the peak of the rainy season and past the rainy season.Many flowers on my new pandora vine have been sheltered by leaves above them and it is festooned with fruit and most flowers seem to set.It is not like the market pandoras and my first ripe fruit yesterday was sweet and much like Panama red.Bees,ants,native bees,ants and other pollinators always seem to be around the flowers.I find I am eating ripe fruit at way less than a year after planting but my vines only last about 3 years with my african yellow and Panama gold expiring in the last few weeks seemingly succumbing to the rainy season.
Maybe rain in cooler weather with wind that gets on the anthers is the problem for fruit set.Looking at my flowers they are sheltered by the vines' dense foliage above.

[Mike T]

I'll take some shots of the pandora.





I can't get a good shot but there must be over 100 fruit and many flowers are sheltered by foliage as there are multiple runners.

[starling1]

I'll take some shots of the pandora.





I can't get a good shot but there must be over 100 fruit and many flowers are sheltered by foliage as there are multiple runners.

Mine are loaded too Mike. I don't think there's any difference between pandora and panama red. If you gave me one of each and asked me to name which is which, I couldn't do it. I wouldn't be surprised if they are exactly the same thing.

I won't grow any but P red now. Tried a few different types, it trumps everything.

[barath]

starling -- is Panama Red the sweetest one for you?  Or do you like it because it's more sour?  I'm trying several Australian varieties for the first time this year (Panama Red, Panama Gold, Pandora, Misty Gem), all grown from seed, and I'm wondering which I should prioritize.  Since I don't get as much heat as you, I want to grow the sweetest ones out there.

[starling1]

starling -- is Panama Red the sweetest one for you?  Or do you like it because it's more sour?  I'm trying several Australian varieties for the first time this year (Panama Red, Panama Gold, Pandora, Misty Gem), all grown from seed, and I'm wondering which I should prioritize.  Since I don't get as much heat as you, I want to grow the sweetest ones out there.

Panama gold is sweeter than red, but it lacks complexity. Misty Gem isn't worth growing.

Panama red can be  sweet or tart depending on how far you let it ripen. It really is the best by far. Massive size too. I have had some bigger than navel oranges. Also reliable producer.

[Mike T]

Starling Panama gold and african yellow are way better in the comparisons that I have done being sweeter and richer.I am wondering if these don't sweeten as much in Brizzy but Panama red is more suited because it has a little P.edulis in the family tree.Maybe it reaches it's full glory in the sub tropics.

[Mike T]

Starling Misty Gem wins all the taste tests done by industry and is routinely considered the best P.edulis along with maybe sweetheart.Eat a passionfruit in asia or africa and then you'll appreciate the edulis more.
I think also if you have a good sweet flavicarpa it trumps good edulis.I did think you preferred sourness in fruit and Panama red is a sweet type.

[starling1]

Starling Panama gold and african yellow are way better in the comparisons that I have done being sweeter and richer.I am wondering if these don't sweeten as much in Brizzy but Panama red is more suited because it has a little P.edulis in the family tree.Maybe it reaches it's full glory in the sub tropics.

Well, you've got to factor in my bias too--I'm a sour passionfruit kind of guy. I pick mine well before optimal ripeness for this reason.

There's some kind of Feral yellow around the traps at my place which might be the African. It produces like nothing else on Earth and the fruit are incredibly sweet.

[Waterfall]

I have a Pandora vine at my place, its also loaded with fruit. How do you tell when they are ripe? what colour do they turn?

[Mike T]

Waterfall like Panama red which is brick  reddish to purplish/maroon.

[fruitlovers]

So I've been watching what happens with my Panama reds in relation to fruit set, and have noticed something that almost certainly affects the rate at which fruit will set.

That thing is rain.

I've heard a lot of theories as to why passionfruit set poorly, ranging from lack of Bees, to Ants robbing pollen. This last is  certainly a fallacy, and makes no difference. In fact I'm sure that Ants do in fact increase pollination.

However, rain is going to. Why? Because the pollen of passiflora is delicate. Delicate enough that rain, or even hosing, will wash it away easily.
I know what you're thinking--so what? The rain would just wash the pollen onto the stigma.

Not so. This is because the stigma are positioned at a considerable elevation above the  stamen. Running water which washes off the pollen will almost never reach the stigma at any point. Go and test if for yourself next time your passionfruit is in bloom. Also, next time it rains, go and inspect the stamen--they will be rubbery and totally devoid of pollen--and you'd have to be extremely lucky for any of that to have come into contact with the stigma.

So my advice is don't water your passionfruit leaves/flowers while it's in bloom. Roots only.

Hope this helps.

s

If what you're saying were true we would never get one passionfruit. This area receives heavy rain and they set fruit just fine during these rains, enough to litter the ground with passionfruits.

[starling1]

So I've been watching what happens with my Panama reds in relation to fruit set, and have noticed something that almost certainly affects the rate at which fruit will set.

That thing is rain.

I've heard a lot of theories as to why passionfruit set poorly, ranging from lack of Bees, to Ants robbing pollen. This last is  certainly a fallacy, and makes no difference. In fact I'm sure that Ants do in fact increase pollination.

However, rain is going to. Why? Because the pollen of passiflora is delicate. Delicate enough that rain, or even hosing, will wash it away easily.
I know what you're thinking--so what? The rain would just wash the pollen onto the stigma.

Not so. This is because the stigma are positioned at a considerable elevation above the  stamen. Running water which washes off the pollen will almost never reach the stigma at any point. Go and test if for yourself next time your passionfruit is in bloom. Also, next time it rains, go and inspect the stamen--they will be rubbery and totally devoid of pollen--and you'd have to be extremely lucky for any of that to have come into contact with the stigma.

So my advice is don't water your passionfruit leaves/flowers while it's in bloom. Roots only.

Hope this helps.

s

If what you're saying were true we would never get one passionfruit. This area receives heavy rain and they set fruit just fine during these rains, enough to litter the ground with passionfruits.

I have to respectfully disagree Oscar. My explanation for this is simple; it isn't raining at all times when all the flowers are open. The flowers that have not unfurled during the actual rain are not affected by the washing effect, but benefit from the increased moisture at the roots.

Passionfruit are seedy; from am evolutionary perspective, there is no need for them to set fruit on ever flower--in fact, this would probably be disastrous. If every flower set fruit, this would increase the germination rate to a point where all the seedlings would crown one another out. Rain removing the pollen from flowers during a season creates an equilibrium.

[fruitlovers]

So I've been watching what happens with my Panama reds in relation to fruit set, and have noticed something that almost certainly affects the rate at which fruit will set.

That thing is rain.

I've heard a lot of theories as to why passionfruit set poorly, ranging from lack of Bees, to Ants robbing pollen. This last is  certainly a fallacy, and makes no difference. In fact I'm sure that Ants do in fact increase pollination.

However, rain is going to. Why? Because the pollen of passiflora is delicate. Delicate enough that rain, or even hosing, will wash it away easily.
I know what you're thinking--so what? The rain would just wash the pollen onto the stigma.

Not so. This is because the stigma are positioned at a considerable elevation above the  stamen. Running water which washes off the pollen will almost never reach the stigma at any point. Go and test if for yourself next time your passionfruit is in bloom. Also, next time it rains, go and inspect the stamen--they will be rubbery and totally devoid of pollen--and you'd have to be extremely lucky for any of that to have come into contact with the stigma.

So my advice is don't water your passionfruit leaves/flowers while it's in bloom. Roots only.

Hope this helps.

s

If what you're saying were true we would never get one passionfruit. This area receives heavy rain and they set fruit just fine during these rains, enough to litter the ground with passionfruits.

I have to respectfully disagree Oscar. My explanation for this is simple; it isn't raining at all times when all the flowers are open. The flowers that have not unfurled during the actual rain are not affected by the washing effect, but benefit from the increased moisture at the roots.

Passionfruit are seedy; from am evolutionary perspective, there is no need for them to set fruit on ever flower--in fact, this would probably be disastrous. If every flower set fruit, this would increase the germination rate to a point where all the seedlings would crown one another out. Rain removing the pollen from flowers during a season creates an equilibrium.

Starling, i'm not going by theory, but by observation. The rainier it is the more fruits they make here. We have very high rainfall spread evenly through the year, and passionfruit is a great cropper here. What you say doesn't pass the test of experience. There are fruits, like mango and lychee, that are very badly affected by rain during flowering. But passionfruit, at least edulis and edulis var. flavicarpa, is not one of those fruits.

[starling1]

So I've been watching what happens with my Panama reds in relation to fruit set, and have noticed something that almost certainly affects the rate at which fruit will set.

That thing is rain.

I've heard a lot of theories as to why passionfruit set poorly, ranging from lack of Bees, to Ants robbing pollen. This last is  certainly a fallacy, and makes no difference. In fact I'm sure that Ants do in fact increase pollination.

However, rain is going to. Why? Because the pollen of passiflora is delicate. Delicate enough that rain, or even hosing, will wash it away easily.
I know what you're thinking--so what? The rain would just wash the pollen onto the stigma.

Not so. This is because the stigma are positioned at a considerable elevation above the  stamen. Running water which washes off the pollen will almost never reach the stigma at any point. Go and test if for yourself next time your passionfruit is in bloom. Also, next time it rains, go and inspect the stamen--they will be rubbery and totally devoid of pollen--and you'd have to be extremely lucky for any of that to have come into contact with the stigma.

So my advice is don't water your passionfruit leaves/flowers while it's in bloom. Roots only.

Hope this helps.

s

If what you're saying were true we would never get one passionfruit. This area receives heavy rain and they set fruit just fine during these rains, enough to litter the ground with passionfruits.

I have to respectfully disagree Oscar. My explanation for this is simple; it isn't raining at all times when all the flowers are open. The flowers that have not unfurled during the actual rain are not affected by the washing effect, but benefit from the increased moisture at the roots.

Passionfruit are seedy; from am evolutionary perspective, there is no need for them to set fruit on ever flower--in fact, this would probably be disastrous. If every flower set fruit, this would increase the germination rate to a point where all the seedlings would crown one another out. Rain removing the pollen from flowers during a season creates an equilibrium.

Starling, i'm not going by theory, but by observation. The rainier it is the more fruits they make here. We have very high rainfall spread evenly through the year, and passionfruit is a great cropper here. What you say doesn't pass the test of experience. There are fruits, like mango and lychee, that are very badly affected by rain during flowering. But passionfruit, at least edulis and edulis var. flavicarpa, is not one of those fruits.

Yes, I know--but what I'm saying is that they a need a lot of water to flower, but flowers which are open and rained open will not set because the rain washes off the pollen. Again, the flowers do not all open at one time, and it does not rain constantly either--the heavy blooms will result in many flowers that benefit from increased water, and will set fruit if they do not open during the actual period of rain, and many that will never set fruit because the pollen is washed off during the actual rain.  As such, getting a bumper crop is a matter of timing--you'd want a bunch of rain while the vine has a lot of budding flowers, and none when a lot of those flowers are in full bloom.It is mechanically impossible for rain to wash the pollen onto the stigma because the the pollen is positioned below the stigma. The only way water containing the pollen could reach the stigma is if it splashed back off the base of the flower--and I'm sure this does happen, just not often.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

So I've been watching what happens with my Panama reds in relation to fruit set, and have noticed something that almost certainly affects the rate at which fruit will set.

That thing is rain.

I've heard a lot of theories as to why passionfruit set poorly, ranging from lack of Bees, to Ants robbing pollen. This last is  certainly a fallacy, and makes no difference. In fact I'm sure that Ants do in fact increase pollination.

However, rain is going to. Why? Because the pollen of passiflora is delicate. Delicate enough that rain, or even hosing, will wash it away easily.
I know what you're thinking--so what? The rain would just wash the pollen onto the stigma.

Not so. This is because the stigma are positioned at a considerable elevation above the  stamen. Running water which washes off the pollen will almost never reach the stigma at any point. Go and test if for yourself next time your passionfruit is in bloom. Also, next time it rains, go and inspect the stamen--they will be rubbery and totally devoid of pollen--and you'd have to be extremely lucky for any of that to have come into contact with the stigma.

So my advice is don't water your passionfruit leaves/flowers while it's in bloom. Roots only.

Hope this helps.

s

If what you're saying were true we would never get one passionfruit. This area receives heavy rain and they set fruit just fine during these rains, enough to litter the ground with passionfruits.

I have to respectfully disagree Oscar. My explanation for this is simple; it isn't raining at all times when all the flowers are open. The flowers that have not unfurled during the actual rain are not affected by the washing effect, but benefit from the increased moisture at the roots.

Passionfruit are seedy; from am evolutionary perspective, there is no need for them to set fruit on ever flower--in fact, this would probably be disastrous. If every flower set fruit, this would increase the germination rate to a point where all the seedlings would crown one another out. Rain removing the pollen from flowers during a season creates an equilibrium.

Starling, i'm not going by theory, but by observation. The rainier it is the more fruits they make here. We have very high rainfall spread evenly through the year, and passionfruit is a great cropper here. What you say doesn't pass the test of experience. There are fruits, like mango and lychee, that are very badly affected by rain during flowering. But passionfruit, at least edulis and edulis var. flavicarpa, is not one of those fruits.

indubitably

[starling1]

Well, it appears I was right after all; rain does indeed decrease the amount of fruit set of passionfruit. I just did an article search and found literally Dozens of papers which confirm this, and it happens in exactly the way I have observed; flowers that are open during rain have their pollen washed off, and it doesn't reach the stigma.

Here's one:

http://www.actahort.org/books/57/57_15.htm

And another one:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030442380400010X

And another one:

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0006-87052010000100003&script=sci_arttext&tlng=es

So yeah, I think we're done here. Next time, don't just dismiss what I have to say out of hand.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

[fruitlovers]

Well, it appears I was right after all; rain does indeed decrease the amount of fruit set of passionfruit. I just did an article search and found literally Dozens of papers which confirm this, and it happens in exactly the way I have observed; flowers that are open during rain have their pollen washed off, and it doesn't reach the stigma.

Here's one:

http://www.actahort.org/books/57/57_15.htm

And another one:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030442380400010X

And another one:

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0006-87052010000100003&script=sci_arttext&tlng=es

So yeah, I think we're done here. Next time, don't just dismiss what I have to say out of hand.

FYI, only your first link says anything about rain affecting pollination. The other 2 don't mention anything about it. Sorry, but observation still trumps any amount of ivory tower studies you come up with. If rain adversely affected pollination we would go months without any fruit set, and that is certainly not the case.

[starling1]

Well, it appears I was right after all; rain does indeed decrease the amount of fruit set of passionfruit. I just did an article search and found literally Dozens of papers which confirm this, and it happens in exactly the way I have observed; flowers that are open during rain have their pollen washed off, and it doesn't reach the stigma.

Here's one:

http://www.actahort.org/books/57/57_15.htm

And another one:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030442380400010X

And another one:

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0006-87052010000100003&script=sci_arttext&tlng=es

So yeah, I think we're done here. Next time, don't just dismiss what I have to say out of hand.

FYI, only your first link says anything about rain affecting pollination. The other 2 don't mention anything about it. Sorry, but observation still trumps any amount of ivory tower studies you come up with. If rain adversely affected pollination we would go months without any fruit set, and that is certainly not the case.

Oscar, what part of this don't you understand? You are not even listening to me, obviously.

I'll try explaining this one more time:

Yes, rain induces the plant to flower, but it also washes away the pollen. So when you say that you observe large amounts of fruit set during the rainy season, what you are observing is the flowers that have set  fruit having benefited from the increase in water to the roots. These flowers would not have been open during the actual time of raining. If they had been, they would not have set because the rain would have washed away the pollen.

 
I'm not saying that rain=no fruit. I'm saying that rain when you have a lot of open flowers is not a good thing, because this will result in large amounts of those flowers aborting, owing to the washing away of pollen. What you want is rain while the flowers are forming, not when they're open, and after the flowers have pollinated.

FFS--why can't you see my point here??

[FlyingFoxFruits]

Oscar,

It's not worth it to correspond with such members.

but sometimes when you find a thread with misinformation, it's hard to let it go unchecked....so I understand why you feel compelled to respond.

I guess your passion fruit vines haven't read the studies on the internet.