Author Topic: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?  (Read 3114 times)

jtnguyen333

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2021, 12:10:47 PM »
Has he try bringing pollinator into the greenhouse?  Doesn't have to be honeybee..anykind will do such as mason bee ect?
Growing outdoors wouldn't be possible for sure, not even in the most southern parts of the country. That would be only possible in greenhouses which would be above or around 10 °C during winter. My friend has these conditions, avocados are growing great, but he told me about avocados making only male flowers or something along these lines. As far as I know, he never brought avocado to fruit even though they flowered.

Vlk

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2021, 11:17:27 AM »
Has he try bringing pollinator into the greenhouse?  Doesn't have to be honeybee..anykind will do such as mason bee ect?
Growing outdoors wouldn't be possible for sure, not even in the most southern parts of the country. That would be only possible in greenhouses which would be above or around 10 °C during winter. My friend has these conditions, avocados are growing great, but he told me about avocados making only male flowers or something along these lines. As far as I know, he never brought avocado to fruit even though they flowered.

I am sure he did. His greenhouses are open during the summer so any pollinators can get in. Maybe something changed in later years and he made some progress, but unfortunately, I am not able to get in touch with him... :/
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Julie

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2021, 01:15:02 PM »
Don't avocadoes need to be cross pollinated with other avocadoes?  So a single tree will not set fruit then right?

sunny

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2021, 01:20:54 PM »
Don't believe what they say, if you think that it's possible then go for it...buy 500 liter pot, a grafted avocado and try it..

I have a fruiting pedalai in a 200 liter pot, they also said that it would not be possible, it took 5-6 years.

Radoslav

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2021, 10:05:35 AM »
Right now I have  avocado fruit on Hass in pot in greenhouse from last year flowering.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2021, 10:07:19 AM by Radoslav »

spaugh

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2021, 10:50:21 AM »
Don't avocadoes need to be cross pollinated with other avocadoes?  So a single tree will not set fruit then right?

Yes its better the more you have but single trees can also be self fruitful.
Brad Spaugh

Vlk

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2021, 07:14:37 AM »
Right now I have  avocado fruit on Hass in pot in greenhouse from last year flowering.

You do? Wow, nice, that gives me hope! So is it developing? Where exactly in Slovakia if I might ask? You are after all a little more to the south than me. Also - I have an avocado sprouting from seed right now, do you think I can ask you for some scion wood once it gets big enough to be grafted (I suppose that will take a year and a bit)?

Cheers!
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lebmung

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2021, 06:17:44 PM »
I have 5 avocado varieties. I keep them in small pots from 15 L to 50 L, they all flower now.
Last year they set fruit but I cut them because the trees are young.
I keep my trees outdoors from last frost to first frost. Then during the winter in as basement or a cold room at 2-10C for 3 months. None died, they do well in cold.

I don't think one needs 200 L container. In Japan they grow it in 70L and get it full of fruits.
I believe your problem is the lack of varieties A and B. And the flowering period. Here they flower now.

Vlk

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2021, 06:23:22 PM »
I have 5 avocado varieties. I keep them in small pots from 15 L to 50 L, they all flower now.
Last year they set fruit but I cut them because the trees are young.
I keep my trees outdoors from last frost to first frost. Then during the winter in as basement or a cold room at 2-10C for 3 months. None died, they do well in cold.

I don't think one needs 200 L container. In Japan they grow it in 70L and get it full of fruits.
I believe your problem is the lack of varieties A and B. And the flowering period. Here they flower now.

Thank you for sharing your experience! That's great! What exactly do you mean by A and B? I decided to get two grafted trees of two different varieties and I will graft a seedling I am growing from seed as soon as it gets old enough. I am excited to give it a go!
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nexxogen

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2021, 02:04:45 AM »
Avocado flowers first open as female then close and open up again as male. This is why what your friend said is a bit strange because I would think that it isn't possible for an avocado flower to just skip the female stage. When it comes to when exactly these flowers open and close, there are 2 types - A and B. With the A types, the flowers open up as female in the morning, then close in the afternoon and then open up again as males in the afternoon of the next day. The B type flowers open up as female in the afternoon, then close down and open up as male the following morning. This means that in their natural habitat, you will have an overlap between type A and type B trees, where one type will have male flowers and the other female which essentially allows for cross pollination.

According to a source I found, this dynamic is a bit disrupted outside of the native range and it can happen that there's overlap of male and female flowers on the same tree, essentially making it self-pollinating, but apparently this can only be the case with type A while type B can never be self-pollinating. Now I haven't confirmed this so please take it with a grain of salt.

I can tell you that I found a Mexican avocado tree in my hometown of Bar, Montenegro that looks like it's at least 10 years old and that blooms every year heavily but never sets fruit. When I went to check the flowers out one morning, they appeared to be male which would indicate it's a type B. Close to it there's another, much younger tree (I don't know if it's Mexican because its leaves didn't smell like licorice) which actually had two fruits last year, but I haven't confirmed its type.

So maybe your friend simply has a type B and that's why he's not getting any fruit.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2021, 10:18:23 AM by nexxogen »

Vlk

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2021, 02:21:59 AM »
Avocado flowers first open as female then close and open up again as male. This is why what your friend said is a bit strange because I would think that it isn't possible for an avocado flower to just skip the female stage. When it comes to when exactly these flowers open and close, you've got two types - A and B. With the A types, the flowers open up as female in the morning, then close in the afternoon and then open up again as males in the afternoon of the next day. The B type flowers open up as female in the afternoon, then close down and open up as male the following morning. This means that in their natural habitat, you will have an overlap where one type will have male flowers and the other female so they can cross pollinate.

According to a source I found, this dynamic is a bit disrupted outside of the native range and it can happen that there's overlap of male and female flowers on the same tree, essentially making them self-pollinating, but apparently this can only be the case with type A and apparently type B can never be self-pollinating. Now I haven't confirmed this so please take it with a grain of salt.

I can tell you that I found a Mexican avocado tree in my hometown of Bar, Montenegro that looks like it's at least 10 years old and that blooms every year heavily but never sets fruit. When I went to check the flowers out one morning, they appeared to be male which would indicate it's a type B. Close to it there's another, much younger tree (I don't know if it's Mexican because its leaves didn't smell like licorice) which actually had two fruits last year, but I haven't confirmed it's type.

So maybe your friend simply has a type B and that's why he's not getting any fruit.

Wow, that's very interesting, I had no idea! So that might be the key! So is this completely random or can you actually determine the type before it sets to flower? I didn't see the type being mentioned when I was buying the grafted plants from the nursery, so I suppose it will be random. I've read in one of the local nurseries that you need two different trees to get fruit, but there was no mention of this male/female flower cycle.
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Radoslav

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2021, 02:37:36 AM »
A cultivars: 'Hass', 'Gwen', 'Lamb Hass', 'Pinkerton', 'Reed'
B cultivars: 'Fuerte', 'Sharwil', 'Zutano', 'Bacon', 'Ettinger', 'Sir Prize', 'Walter Hole

Vlk

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2021, 02:52:06 AM »
A cultivars: 'Hass', 'Gwen', 'Lamb Hass', 'Pinkerton', 'Reed'
B cultivars: 'Fuerte', 'Sharwil', 'Zutano', 'Bacon', 'Ettinger', 'Sir Prize', 'Walter Hole


I am just learning about it through Google, thank you! Again, wow, I had no idea! Nobody ever mentioned anything about flowering types in different varieties. That really is the key and makes an absolute sense why there was this belief it can't set fruit here. So it turns out I ordered two A types trees. :D I already wrote to the nursery and I will get additional two B types. :) Thank you all very much for valuable insights, I am so excited and glad I finally cracked this mystery. :D Avocado is my top favorite fruit (along with durian, which is sadly not quite possible to grow into fruition here), so having to grow my own is a dream! :)
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Vlk

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2021, 05:59:53 AM »
Regarding the pollination, do you help it somehow (with brush, wind or something else) or is it enough for the plants to just stand close to each other?
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lebmung

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2021, 07:24:27 PM »
Bees will do the work. Just watch out different types flower at different times depending on the climate. So you can end up with A flowering but no B flowering. So things get complicated.