Author Topic: Side Veneer Multigrafts On A Loquat  (Read 1307 times)

Pedroboy

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Side Veneer Multigrafts On A Loquat
« on: May 20, 2021, 04:44:37 PM »
What are the chances of success for side veneer grafts on a loquat trunk in a situation where I plan to multigraft the loquat and keep  (ie not cut off) the named, grafted growth above?  In my particular case, I would like to side veneer graft maybe two varieties  1-2 feet up the tree (and below the lowest existing branches) on my  5'  Champagne Loquat tree. I'd like to keep the rest of the growth above as Champagne - for now.

I HAVE already done one cleft graft in the small canopy thus far, but am I wrong to think these lower side veneers on the trunk would be preferable to continually cleft grafting higher and higher on the few laterals currently available - which don't even begin until about 3 - 4 feet up the trunk? Also, if what I propose is doable, how low on the trunk above soil line should I begin? Thanks to any/all for input you can offer!

Tommyng

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Re: Side Veneer Multigrafts On A Loquat
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2021, 06:01:19 PM »
Side veneers work, so too do bark grafts. You can go as low as you reasonably want, if you do it at a good angle it can turn into a good lower branch.
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beicadad

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Re: Side Veneer Multigrafts On A Loquat
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2021, 06:17:52 PM »
it's one thing to get side graft to take (not difficult), another to make it grow at a meaningful rate.

The latter is a matter of luck if you don't cut the branches above. In my experience, they are difficult to compete against existing branches above and may not grow much.

Orkine

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Re: Side Veneer Multigrafts On A Loquat
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2021, 09:18:26 PM »
Watch this video from a forum member

https://youtu.be/w8CYw5d5Z0w

I think he did what you are talking about


Pedroboy

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Re: Side Veneer Multigrafts On A Loquat
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2021, 10:07:19 PM »
Yes! Thanks for that!

Adam's tutorial is exactly what I had in mind - with the exception that he DOES mention there at the end that he plans to lop off the seedling above his work once the scions start to push. Beicadad alluded to what I'm most concerned about - that keeping the canopy might tend to deprive my new additions of a lot of energy long term - even if my grafts are 'successful' strictly speaking.

Orkine

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Re: Side Veneer Multigrafts On A Loquat
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2021, 02:04:46 AM »
In Adams case, he did not vant the rootstock variety.  If he did, he could chop off half of the rootstock over the top graft and have the stump compete with the rafts which will have a jump start since they would have pushed an initial flush. The rootstock will eventually sprout from the stump and should catch up with the grafts in time.

Jose Spain

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Re: Side Veneer Multigrafts On A Loquat
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2021, 02:28:21 AM »
I got the best results by far in the case of loquat with patch grafting and by far I mean that 100% of the grafts took last year and this one seems I gonna get the same results, when with cleft or other grafting methods I got much lower percentages. Here there is a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w051zyackM explaining the patch grafting in citrics. In my case I use branches of the same size in the scion and the rootstock but I guess it will work just as well as shown in the video with different sizes.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 02:36:40 AM by Jose Spain »

Jose Spain

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Re: Side Veneer Multigrafts On A Loquat
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2021, 02:29:33 AM »
Another additional advantage of patch grafting is that with a single scion you can graft multiple branches or trees.

Tommyng

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Re: Side Veneer Multigrafts On A Loquat
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2021, 08:48:44 AM »





Here’s a side graft. It’s a big Jim grafted on and there’s some grafts onto it as well.
Don’t rush, take time and enjoy life and food.

Pedroboy

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Re: Side Veneer Multigrafts On A Loquat
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2021, 12:30:16 PM »
Another additional advantage of patch grafting is that with a single scion you can graft multiple branches or trees.

Great video, Jose - and food for thought.
In your experience, does loquat bark strip as cleanly from cuttings as the citrus appears to do?

Pedroboy

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Re: Side Veneer Multigrafts On A Loquat
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2021, 12:47:21 PM »





Here’s a side graft. It’s a big Jim grafted on and there’s some grafts onto it as well.

Nice - that's really encouraging. So no decapitation in your case?
Also, how thick was that Big Jim scion initially? I'm trying to stick to about pencil sized wood if I can - the trunks on both of my two trees are still only about 5/8 - 3/4" in the area that I'd probably be working.



Tommyng

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Re: Side Veneer Multigrafts On A Loquat
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2021, 12:56:25 PM »
The scion was about pencil size. There was no decapitation, but every upper branch was grafted. This is a one year old graft, on a seedling tree my friend gave me. Every branch doesn’t exhibit any growth restriction. I was thinking of doing this to some lanky mango trees to introduce lower branches.
Don’t rush, take time and enjoy life and food.

Pedroboy

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Re: Side Veneer Multigrafts On A Loquat
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2021, 01:06:53 PM »
Cool -Sounds like maybe all your grafting in the canopy above kind of levelled the playing field for your work down below - and took away some of the apical dominance that you otherwise would've been fighting?

Maybe the solution is not either/or then - maybe some top working at the same time is the answer...

Cheers,
Chris

Tommyng

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Re: Side Veneer Multigrafts On A Loquat
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2021, 02:03:54 PM »
Cool -Sounds like maybe all your grafting in the canopy above kind of levelled the playing field for your work down below - and took away some of the apical dominance that you otherwise would've been fighting?

Maybe the solution is not either/or then - maybe some top working at the same time is the answer...

Cheers,
Chris

Apical dominance wasn’t a struggle. There were still rootstock branches present when I graft the lower
scion. They grew at a similar pace, and as time passed I added more varieties onto the seedling branches. It was a gradual conversion. You need to get a nice shaped scion to Mimic an ideal angle for a lower branch.
Don’t rush, take time and enjoy life and food.

Pedroboy

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Re: Side Veneer Multigrafts On A Loquat
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2021, 04:50:08 PM »
Cool -Sounds like maybe all your grafting in the canopy above kind of levelled the playing field for your work down below - and took away some of the apical dominance that you otherwise would've been fighting?

Maybe the solution is not either/or then - maybe some top working at the same time is the answer...

Cheers,
Chris

Apical dominance wasn’t a struggle. There were still rootstock branches present when I graft the lower
scion. They grew at a similar pace, and as time passed I added more varieties onto the seedling branches. It was a gradual conversion. You need to get a nice shaped scion to Mimic an ideal angle for a lower branch.

Thanks very much for your input - with a little luck I'll have some progress to post by mid - summer.

Best,
Chris

Jose Spain

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Re: Side Veneer Multigrafts On A Loquat
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2021, 04:51:10 PM »
Another additional advantage of patch grafting is that with a single scion you can graft multiple branches or trees.

Great video, Jose - and food for thought.
In your experience, does loquat bark strip as cleanly from cuttings as the citrus appears to do?

When the tree is pushing, yes, absolutely, it's very easy. I use the same model of knife than in the video, and getting the bark strip cleanly is key in the case of loquat because it's fluffly and getting the right match between scion and rootstock is tricky, with patch grafting that trouble just dissapears. For me patch it's hands down the best option for loquat, speacially if you want differentcvs in the same tree. Tomorrow if I get time I'll upload some pics...

Jose Spain

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Re: Side Veneer Multigrafts On A Loquat
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2021, 05:41:43 AM »

Some pics, as you see on quince works just as well as on loquat