Author Topic: Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...  (Read 2337 times)

elriba

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Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...
« on: May 09, 2022, 12:52:00 PM »
I had been thinking for a while that since cherimoyas originated in the highlands of Peru, and that Peru has all kinds of weather regions (from very cold to very hot), that there might be varieties in Peru that have adapted to hot climates over the centuries.  So, for a while I had been searching in different places, asking friends I have in Peru, etc..., but couldn't find anything conclusive.  I also contacted a couple of agricultural research stations in Ecuador, but they didn't know.

Recently, however, I found the video I'm linking here.  This video is about pruning, yet goes into other details about cherimoyas.  It is presented by a lady called Maria Elena Rojas, who is the manager of an agricultural research station in Peru.  Around minute 25, while she is talking about choosing the right variety for your area, she explains that there ARE VARIETIES FOR THE JUNGLE.  The jungle she's referring to, is the Amazon jungle, and that is VERY HOT and VERY HUMID. 

Interestingly, she also mentions that these hot weather varieties tend to have leaves which are thinner than the cold weather varieties and have better medicinal properties.  From a picture she shows (at around 25:10), the leaves look like atemoya leaves, even though these are definitely cherimoya varieties.

YouTube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKsODNG2nF8

Sorry that the video is in spanish only...

I forget if it was in this video, or another one I saw, that they explain that these hot-weather cherimoya varieties have not been used commercially as much because people prefer to grow soursop commercially in hot weather regions, and cherimoya in the highlands.  However, cherimoyas can be grown everywhere in Peru by choosing the correct variety.

I wrote an email to this lady asking to obtain seeds of these varieties but haven't received a response yet.  I am still pondering what other way I can get a hold of some seeds in the future. 

I thought that this would be interest to all annona lovers here....
« Last Edit: May 09, 2022, 12:54:38 PM by elriba »

spaugh

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Re: Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2022, 01:13:56 PM »
The video looks super informative, unfortunately I can barely understand any spanish. Is there a way to translate the captions?  I would like to watch this.

By the way.I noticed some varieties are definitely more heat tolerant than others.  And the heat tolerant ones have more textures skin on the fruit and more narrow leaves.  I can see my trees with round leaves and smooth fruit struggling more in the summer heat here. 
« Last Edit: May 09, 2022, 04:39:37 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

elriba

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Re: Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2022, 04:35:51 PM »
Hi Brad,

I don't know if it is possible to translate the sub-titles of somebody's else videos.  Maybe the only way would be to download the video, and re-upload it as private video on youtube.  I think YouTube can add auto-translated english sub-titles.  Don't know how good they would be however.

----------------

A few comments that she makes that I found interesting:

Varieties are not typically named in Peru, but rather distinguished only according to the skin appearance. One notable exception is the "Cumbe" variety, which is a variety which originated in the Cumbe region.  There are a couple other named varieties.

The varieties which have the pointy spikes on their skin (a type of skin called "mamilata"), are the ones typically found - she explains - in the "jungle".  She also explained in the video, that the varieties whose skin has rounded spikes ("tuberculata") are very resistant to fruit flies. 

----------------

Goodness.... Imagine the zillion varieties just waiting to be discovered in Peru.  Every town's variety is probably different. 
 
Edgard

digigarden

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Re: Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2022, 04:46:37 PM »
Cherimoya Cumbe from peru fruits in Dominican Republic low-mid lands confirmed  :o

digigarden

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Re: Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2022, 04:49:59 PM »
The video looks super informative, unfortunately I can barely understand any spanish. Is there a way to translate the captions?  I would like to watch this.

By the way.I noticed some varieties are definitely more heat tolerant than others.  And the heat tolerant ones have more textures skin on the fruit and more narrow leaves.  I can see my trees with round leaves and smooth fruit struggling more in the summer heat here.

Was going to translate but it's 1 hour, 30 mins of someone speaking so i will tell you what's about after...however just starting the video the lady screams at her kid "hey i'm working!!!" haha

digigarden

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Re: Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2022, 04:53:36 PM »
"Pruning system in the cultivation of Cherimoya"
Seems it's mostly about pruning for good fruit production.

CTMIAMI

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Re: Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2022, 04:55:58 PM »
Is anyone growing Cumbe in the US mainland?   I will watch the video later.
Carlos
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www.myavocadotrees.com
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spaugh

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Re: Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2022, 04:57:52 PM »
Yes people have it.  I have a small tree.  Frank was selling scions for a few years. 
Brad Spaugh

Oolie

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Re: Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2022, 06:19:32 PM »
In my limited experience, all the cherimoyas defoliate when it gets above 105F or so for a couple hours.

Any crosses with even a little sugar apple don't mind though.

CTMIAMI

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Re: Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2022, 06:23:59 PM »
In the video she says that Cumbre can be grown in the coast if grafted on Soursop.  There are many other coastal or low elevation cultivars, but she did not mention. The have a germplasm collection of over 400 cultivars
Carlos
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kh0110

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Re: Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2022, 06:53:35 PM »
In my limited experience, all the cherimoyas defoliate when it gets above 105F or so for a couple hours.

Any crosses with even a little sugar apple don't mind though.

Even Dr. White cherimoya? It's supposed to be the best in terms of heat tolerance.
Thera

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Re: Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2022, 02:25:15 AM »
Sorry Thera, I don't have Dr. White.
I do have over a dozen cherimoya varieties however, and they all dropped after a few hours above 105. Any variety with any sugar apple in the parentage was unaffected, all grafted to the same tree.

kh0110

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Re: Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2022, 03:38:39 PM »
Thanks for the info, Oolie. UCR tested cherimoyas for heat resistance up to 100F, but I'm guessing that +- 5F might work.  Dr. White would probably suffer at 105F but maybe not to the point of losing all leaves.
Thera

spaugh

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Re: Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2022, 06:24:41 PM »
I havent seen defoliation when its over 105.  Im watering the crap out them when its that hot though.  Ive never had defoliation during summer time.  It was 117 a few yyears ago and we got a little bit of leaf damage but wasnt that severe.  My trees usually look a bit tired by winter though.  Either from salt buildup during summer or from all the dry heat.  But they seem to fruit ok.  I can tell they would be happier a bit closer to the coast. 

Dr white is definitely a stronger cultivar than other cherimoyas.  It seems to have a very slight atemoya flavor to me on some of the fruits like it may have some percentage of sugar apple in it.  Maybe.  I have no idea if thats the case but it does seem to have that flavor just barely sometimes.
Brad Spaugh

mangoba

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Re: Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2022, 06:59:09 PM »
I can get automated translation when I load the video:



spaugh

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Re: Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2022, 07:35:20 PM »
It shows up only in spanish on mine.  Im using a tablet android and dont have a pc.
Brad Spaugh

kh0110

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Re: Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2022, 07:48:28 PM »
It shows up only in spanish on mine.  Im using a tablet android and dont have a pc.

I have a Samsung tablet: Click on Settings, Captions (cc), Auto-translate, English
Thera

spaugh

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Re: Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2022, 07:55:31 PM »
It only has spanish as an option



Brad Spaugh

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Re: Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2022, 08:01:07 PM »
Found the setting.  It was an auto translate setting needed to be enabled.  Yay!
Brad Spaugh

Gogu

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Re: Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2022, 08:05:51 PM »
It only has spanish as an option




did you try clicking on the gear icon? when i click that i get an auto translate option.

spaugh

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Re: Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2022, 08:10:00 PM »
It only has spanish as an option




did you try clicking on the gear icon? when i click that i get an auto translate option.

I found the translate setting now, thanks!  Watching it now.
Brad Spaugh

SHV

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Re: Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2022, 10:13:15 PM »
Heat hasn’t been a problem for me with my three seedling cherimoyas.  I get the same weather as Brad and once a year we get a couple days that exceed 110F (43C). If I deeply water the night before, I see no damage other than a couple burnt leaves and fruit, but no fruit or leaf drop and the fruit burn is purely superficial.  Cherimoyas are built Tonka tough in my experience if cared for properly during extreme conditions. 

spaugh

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Re: Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2022, 10:33:51 PM »
In the video they mention the trees will drop leaves if they dont have enough water.  Its not super easy to follow but i think maybe she is saying they hold back the water to get them to defoliate at a particular time of year in order to cause new buds to form and flowers to make fruit off season.

She is talking about it around 47-49 minutes.  Maybe someone who understands spanish can watch that part and explain. 
Brad Spaugh

digigarden

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Re: Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2022, 02:30:44 AM »
47-49
after min 47 she just mentioned distancing of plants now she says "agoste" which she says is very important. word seems to mean "spent" from the month august, when plants start losing their leaves?

https://www.rae.es/tdhle/agoste
agoste. (De agostar.) m. Perú. the suppression of watering in the cultivation of sugar cane before the harvest, "for its benefit"

now she starts saying:
Some people prune "in green" and then they can't tell which branch is going to be used for fruit production, which branch is going to be vegetative growth and such...or a branch will start blooming and then another part of the branch will start sending leaves disturbing the flowers. then says the solution is easy, you have to adapt the plant step by step. If the plant is a year old you only stop watering for 15 days, next year you do it for a month,next you do it for a month and a half or two months, little by little you do it like that so when you stop watering the plant will start shedding all its leaves and then they will start falling like as if the plant is dying. so you need to always be checking the stem of the plant. when the stem of the plant starts showing the "presence" of something that is "sucking?/local word?" it means the plant is too "agostada/spent". so it's only when you see 1/3 of the leaves falling that means the plant is already "agostada/spent". it's very important to have that knowledge...that's when you apply the pruning techniques. remember that below the leaves of the Cherimoya is where there are the buds..no pruning and we will not achieve buds..see "here a leaf fell and now we have a bud".."here we have a leaf and a flower".."here we already have a fruit". So this is why it's very important to know..know "where am i going to prune"
« Last Edit: May 11, 2022, 02:54:22 AM by digigarden »

CTMIAMI

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Re: Cherimoya varieties for hot weather regions...
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2022, 06:40:16 PM »
Cherimoya Cumbe from peru fruits in Dominican Republic low-mid lands confirmed  :o
If it grows in DR is low lands it should grow in Florida I imagine?
Carlos
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