Author Topic: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand  (Read 2870 times)

martweb

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Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« on: May 24, 2022, 03:07:23 AM »

brian

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Re: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2022, 09:29:15 AM »
It seems there are quite a few kumquat varieties availabe in Europe and Japan that are unknown in the US, but because of import rules are not simple to bring in.

This is the first I've heard of it.  It does sound interesting if it truly has the strong oil content that citrons have.

Millet

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Re: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2022, 11:51:38 AM »
The above cross certainly does not show much caricaturists  of the Buddha Hand.

martweb

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Re: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2022, 01:07:59 PM »
It's just about the taste adnd flavor, not the shape.

citrange

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Re: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2022, 02:18:54 PM »
We know that Buddha's Hand is always propagated vegetatively because it does not produce seeds, but I've never heard of any hybrids before. I've always assumed that the pollen is not viable and that the fingered fruit would have died out without human intervention. If the pollen is viable then it may or may not carry the 'defective' gene which produces fingered fruit. Clearly, with this hybrid the trait has not been passed on. The resulting plant may be no different from a Kumquat hybrid with some other citron variety.

Millet

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Re: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2022, 04:57:01 PM »
Citrange your above post gives a possible reason for the shape of martweb's hybrid.   It could be verified if a different citron cross had the same shape and taste

poncirsguy

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Re: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2022, 10:11:40 PM »
When you cross fruit A with Fruit B and plant many seeds of the new fruit, each tree will produce fruit different from its sister trees.  We keep the fruit that is good and graft scion wood or rooted cutting from that tree.

Till

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Re: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2022, 04:51:01 PM »
I have bought the tree from Oscar Tintori. Thank you Martweb for the hint. The tree looks very much like Kumquat indeed. It has no fruits yet. But pray that I can tell you more in about a year. I hope it blooms this year.

martweb

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Re: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2022, 01:24:23 AM »
Till, I am really looking forward for your experiences with this cultivar. Anything special with the flavor of it's leaves?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2022, 01:11:50 PM by martweb »

martweb

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Re: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2023, 10:39:31 AM »
Thanks to Till I was able to test two fruits. The flesh had a citrusy mild flavor, but the rind is laking the ciron aroma/flavor I was hoping for.

bussone

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Re: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2023, 10:51:28 AM »
We know that Buddha's Hand is always propagated vegetatively because it does not produce seeds, but I've never heard of any hybrids before. I've always assumed that the pollen is not viable and that the fingered fruit would have died out without human intervention. If the pollen is viable then it may or may not carry the 'defective' gene which produces fingered fruit. Clearly, with this hybrid the trait has not been passed on. The resulting plant may be no different from a Kumquat hybrid with some other citron variety.

There are fingered citrons which are not pulp-free. It seems different varieties are sometimes traded as Buddha’s Hand.

Lauta_hibrid

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Re: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2024, 07:45:51 PM »
Thanks to Till I was able to test two fruits. The flesh had a citrusy mild flavor, but the rind is laking the ciron aroma/flavor I was hoping for.

Do you have photos of the leaves and fruits?  because on the internet there is only that blurry photo and something in a video.  I have already made several Buddha's hand hybrids: pollinating: rampurg lime, Genoa lemon, eutis limequat and this year I am forming fruit with Nagami kumquat, meiwa and ninpo Orangequat.  We'll see what I get.  I have the hypothesis that C. medica flower quickly (I made etrog from seed, several seedlings and they flowered in 4 years).  So maybe I'll have a surprise in a while.  photos: 1st etrog flowering, 2nd and 3rd limequat x buddha's hand.






BorisR

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Re: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2024, 11:54:52 PM »
Here are photos of my fruits:


Ilya11

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Re: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2024, 03:32:07 AM »
I have already made several Buddha's hand hybrids: pollinating: rampurg lime, Genoa lemon, eutis limequat and this year I am forming fruit with Nagami kumquat, meiwa and ninpo Orangequat.  We'll see what I get.  I have the hypothesis that C. medica flower quickly (I made etrog from seed, several seedlings and they flowered in 4 years).  So maybe I'll have a surprise in a while.  photos: 1st etrog flowering, 2nd and 3rd limequat x buddha's hand.






You probably know that there are no hybrids with citrons as a seed parent.
They are shedding  pollen long before the flower opening.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

Lauta_hibrid

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Re: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2024, 05:15:38 AM »
Here are photos of my fruits:


uhhh!!  thanks a lot!  I never saw a close up photo 😲, although he gave me more questions than answers... I'm totally baffled.  It has some leaves with long petiole and wings, like ichangquat... but none of the parents have that character, that is, kumquat does not have wings and Buddha's hand nor does it have joints in the petiole... it is like a continuous sheet, my hybrids they all gave like that.  I will see what happens with my seedlings and we can compare... it is extremely rare for such marked new characteristics to appear... it is disconcerting to me.  PS: @ilya11 no.  He did not know.  Now that I see the origin of conventional citrus fruits, I see that they are always their paternal origin.  but that is not a challenge hehe, kumquat usually does it, but I have found the right point and the way, you can put the plant in the shade so that it does not release pollen until the flower is well developed, it is well hydrated because dehydration causes it to do not open the petals.  and I still haven't had plants with a female part, other than Buddha's hand, so I'll have to see if I can find a way around it when I get full flowers.  (I take everything as a challenge 🫡😅😋)

Sylvain

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Re: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2024, 06:44:40 AM »
> You probably know that there are no hybrids with citrons as a seed parent.
You mean in the wild... Because it is easy  to do for humans.  :)

Till

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Re: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2024, 08:39:57 AM »
Hello everybody!

I had some fruits this year. They look exactly like those on the picture above. Size as big as a common plum. Peel very thin as on the picture what surprised me. Peel is not very sweet. Totally seedless fruits despite of pollination. The fruits are very juicy. And the taste of the juice is lemonlike and sour, perhaps not as sour as true lemons.

To be honest, I was a bit disappointed by Kumquat x Buddhas Hand. Not that the taste was bad. Not that the fruits are not usefull. Yes, you can enjoy them and do something with them. But I asked myself where the plus of the variety is. I would say a true lemon has a bit more complex taste. And a true lemon has usable peel. The peel of Kumquat x Buddhas Hand is too thin to be of real use and it does not taste better than lemon peel.

So my final assessment: Stay with lemons when you like sour fruits. When you want to breed something new you may use it in further crosses for it does have plenty of pollen. But it will be a kind of lottery what you will get because there is perhaps nobody who knows what its exact genetical constitution is. Can it pass off fingered fruits? Are fingered fruits a recessive trait still contained in Kumquat x Buddhas Hand or is it a dominant trait which then would be not present? In which crossing combination will the thick peel of Buddhas Hand citron show up again?

I would say: Nice to have but nothing special despite its origin. It only made me a bit more informed: I now know that kumquat crossed with citron leads to thin peel that is only moderately sweet. A pitty. I hoped it would be the opposite: very sweet and thick.

« Last Edit: January 30, 2024, 08:44:02 AM by Till »

Lauta_hibrid

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Re: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2024, 10:01:02 AM »
Maybe it needs a backcross with Nagami or Meiwa, that's what I'm doing with each of the hybrids that I got that I notice that it still needs a twist: Nagami x: Calamomdin, Limequat Eutis, Mandarinquat, Orangequat, and Kishu to improve it.  I'll see if my hybrids come out better with more lemon smell.  Regarding whether fingers are inherited, here I have a hybrid from Italy of Buddha's hand:




mikkel

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Re: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2024, 12:43:48 PM »
I also consider backcrossing to be a suitable means of obtaining a combination of the desired characteristics. However, recurrent backcrossing also requires a large number of seedlings that have to be grown until fruit maturity. This is the weak point of this breeding method for tree species with a long juvenile phase.

For targeted breeding, an intentional crossing strategy is the safest method, but is more suitable for annuals.

Are these pictures showing your plants?

Ilya11

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Re: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2024, 12:58:00 PM »
Best regards,
                       Ilya

mikkel

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Re: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2024, 03:08:06 PM »
interesting hybrids! I'll have to check garden centers more closely:P
I see now where the pictures come from.

Till

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Re: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2024, 03:56:51 PM »
Yes. I liked to read the article.

bussone

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Re: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2024, 05:12:39 PM »
To be honest, I was a bit disappointed by Kumquat x Buddhas Hand. Not that the taste was bad. Not that the fruits are not usefull. Yes, you can enjoy them and do something with them. But I asked myself where the plus of the variety is. I would say a true lemon has a bit more complex taste. And a true lemon has usable peel. The peel of Kumquat x Buddhas Hand is too thin to be of real use and it does not taste better than lemon peel.

So my final assessment: Stay with lemons when you like sour fruits. When you want to breed something new you may use it in further crosses for it does have plenty of pollen. But it will be a kind of lottery what you will get because there is perhaps nobody who knows what its exact genetical constitution is. Can it pass off fingered fruits? Are fingered fruits a recessive trait still contained in Kumquat x Buddhas Hand or is it a dominant trait which then would be not present? In which crossing combination will the thick peel of Buddhas Hand citron show up again?

There may be value in something that's like a lemon, but where the kumquat genetics give you improved access to the Papuan citrus species that tend to be shy about outcrossing. This may cross in an interesting manner with citranges or poncirus, too.

Lauta_hibrid

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Re: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2024, 10:53:26 PM »
link

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323979489_Ornamental_Rutaceous_species_potential_asymptomatic_vectors_for_citrus_diseases

Sorry, I was not ordered in the publication, I gave you the link there so you can see.  My plants still don't bear fruit.  The fastest flowering in my hybrids is from the Genoa lemon x rampurg lime, it is flowering after 2 years, a single plant from that cross made this phenomenon.  but I have others that I tested for early flowering with the RES method from the University of Florida (I call it vertical cultivation 😋).

Lauta_hibrid

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Re: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2024, 05:44:27 AM »
Here I am bothering you again, I remembered this Instagram post from the Riverside collection on kumquat hybrids and there was one of kumquat x citrus medica, here you can compare what seems strange to me in the published photo of the "Buddha's hand x kumquat."  This one in the photo "does not have wings on the leaf" and is rather a short petiole that is very reminiscent of lemon or C. medica, the leaf is elongated and has a rounded tip (like citrus medica).

https://www.instagram.com/p/BwQHZQtg-SD/?igsh=NG8xcjJ4cHo5YnZ5