Author Topic: Help with grape project  (Read 174 times)


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Help with grape project
« on: August 28, 2022, 10:46:05 PM »
The goal: grapes that are about as tough as native but better fruit qualities.

I have seeds left over from this spring.

Bd (stover x Daytona) selfed. I think it's bd5-115 I can't remember the numbers. I grew like 30 and have three. These don't grow very fast mainly due to inbreeding but the parent isn't a fast grower. Really low vigor due to inbreeding has thinned the herd. But once you cross it again vigor is restored.

This is a crisp non slip skin table grape green. It passes on pierce tolerance much better than anything else. Crossed with a non tolerant variety passes on full tolerance to 2/3 of offspring. Which it's like 15% with most hybrids. Overall disease resistance good considering. Some black rot. Everything seems to get rust in south Florida.

Should make good wine given the parents are good wine grapes. I have maybe 10 seeds.

Z86 x bd out of 25 I got about 3. One is insanely fast growing. One was decent I sold it. One runt I still have. Anthracnose and low vigor due to heat or whatever thin the herd. Everything usually still gets some minor black rot and rust among the survivors. But I have maybe 10 seeds left.

But here's this year's crop- (z86 x d370) x (shuttleworthi x aestavalis male)
This was sort of an accident. This vine bloomed this year at three years old. It was female and no pollinator. I got this wild vine that was blooming at the same time. Later than shuttleworthi and earlier than aestavalis.

Z86 x d370 has really good grapes and high disease resistance though black rot does build up and some rust. Not root nematode resistant in sand either. Everything else pretty good though berries were splitting.

So these seeds should be solid tough. But most will be male. No room to grow all these grapes. Males can be used as root stock or pulled up. I need someone that can grow some and keep me updated in two years send me a rooted female back. This batch the herd needs thinned out by cutting out males. All of them should be super healthy and disease resistant I imagine. For growing in Florida or the south.

Started in big pots with seed starter dirt they should grow super fast and get grapes in two years maybe one if you push it. Normal time is three years but these native ones when given the easy life can go blitzkrieg fast.

Need seed starter dirt due to it being neutral ph. In hybrids a lot of variability but generally they like neutral to slightly alkaline soil. Regular potting soil is too acidic unless amended. Anything weak can go in the trash but I doubt that will happen. This will take space to let them grow and get berries. Males just get pollen.

A normal hermaphrodite x female you get hermy and female offspring but with the wild male pollen lots of males.

Seeds need to go in a wet paper towel and in the fridge for three months for them to come up. Some don't come up the first year. Hence I start with 20 seeds, 15 come up, 12 die from disease is my normal path.

Aestavalis here has tiny berries. Edible but not great. Low sugar slightly acidic. Though occasionally some have good berries. But the aestavalis x shuttleworthi seems healthier than either one. Hybrid vigo. Aestavalis does have good cold hardiness and blooms later along with solid disease resistance. Though suceptible to insects eating the leaves. This is the only one in the mix with sub par berries and they are still edible.

Shuttleworthi pretty good eating overall some issues to be bred out through hybridizing. Main issue is super early blooming leading to lack of cold tolerance outside of Florida.

So we should get a tough female with pretty good berries. It should be as tough as a wild vine.


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