Author Topic: Health issues for Brosimum gaudichaudii (Mama-cadela)? Help please  (Read 636 times)

FloridaManDan

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Health issues for Brosimum gaudichaudii (Mama-cadela)? Help please
« on: September 06, 2023, 10:35:16 AM »
Hi everyone,

Having trouble keeping my two Mama-cadela's (Brosimum gaudichaudii) happy. The plants are a little less than a year old and are constantly struggling. As pictured below, leaves are riddled with small brown dots. Do yall think this is an Anthracnose/fungal issue?
Ive treated them both for fungal issues countless times and the leaves always come back spotted brown. Rarely have I seen an insect near them. Both plants shed whatever few leaves they push out regularly, lateral growth is basically stagnant. Ive attempted using different mincronutrients, minor soil amendments, and light exposure, all ending with the same result.

With how little information there is on this species, I would appreciate any assistance. If yall have recommendations for a good fungicide that will do the trick once and for all, please let me know.


elouicious

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Re: Health issues for Brosimum gaudichaudii (Mama-cadela)? Help please
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2023, 10:55:28 AM »
what are your water parameters

FloridaManDan

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Re: Health issues for Brosimum gaudichaudii (Mama-cadela)? Help please
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2023, 11:15:42 AM »
I don't really track water parameters as my main source has been the rain down here. I try not to use city water, especially on seedlings.
Haven't tested soil in a while but it was slightly basic and a good mix of well-draining loamy soil and sandy soil mix. It's a Cerrado species so I try to mimick those conditions where I realistically can, although easier said than done.

MasonG31

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Re: Health issues for Brosimum gaudichaudii (Mama-cadela)? Help please
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2023, 01:48:45 PM »
What type of soil did you plant it in?

FloridaManDan

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Re: Health issues for Brosimum gaudichaudii (Mama-cadela)? Help please
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2023, 02:16:15 PM »
I don't recall the specifics from way back when, but likely a mix of: ~25% recycled soil/compost, ~15% perlite, ~30% sandy soil mix (cactus/palm mix), and ~30% outdoor potting soil.

elouicious

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Re: Health issues for Brosimum gaudichaudii (Mama-cadela)? Help please
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2023, 05:13:24 PM »
There looks like probably a few issues- and they are probably all stemming from an incorrect mix of soil/water (who knew these things werent native here? :))

The leaves would seem to indicate an imbalance of nutrients- here is a decent image for identification of nutrient deficiencies, but there are better ones

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/312648399114484357/

Nutrient deficiencies can make your plant weak and susceptible to bugs/bacteria/fungus which is what I would say the black spots are

I asked about the watering because city water is often high salt with things like chlorine that prevent the uptake of Iron, Magnesium and Manganese-


as you can see it is a multifactorial problem that will probably need some careful adjustments to sort out

FloridaManDan

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Re: Health issues for Brosimum gaudichaudii (Mama-cadela)? Help please
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2023, 05:18:32 PM »
Thanks for the pointers elouicious, will continue to try and tweak nutrients following that chart after another fungicide bath.
Just odd to me as these are two of only three plants total in my yard that have any non-insect health issues.

elouicious

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Re: Health issues for Brosimum gaudichaudii (Mama-cadela)? Help please
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2023, 06:07:03 PM »
Keep in mind the region they "come from" is gigantic-

the areas they naturally inhabit may have something special about them (i.e. being on limestone) that is not immediately obvious to the eye

foresight

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Re: Health issues for Brosimum gaudichaudii (Mama-cadela)? Help please
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2023, 09:39:10 PM »
I had two of these for around a year as well and they always struggled no matter what I did. I didn't get any brown spots on them but they were definitely prone to chlorosis and the tips and edges of leaves would often turn a bit brown and/or curl upwards. Additionally, they always seemed to drop their lower leaves and sometimes would drop all their leaves before a heavy push of new growth. They seemed very prone to overwatering and always seemed to want more iron. I had them in amended promix hp and used RO water for reference.

Here's one of my seedlings from earlier in the year. Growth appeared healthy and it was pushing to the point where it was falling over, but within a month all the leaves had fallen off despite looking healthy, and they never came back.




 If I tried again I'd probably experiment with a gritty mix and keep them in smaller pots for longer as their lateral roots seem to develop quite slowly, sort of like a garcinia. If you can get in touch with Anderson Tropicals I know he has/had some of the largest and best-looking seedlings for this species, so maybe he could provide advice.



FloridaManDan

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Re: Health issues for Brosimum gaudichaudii (Mama-cadela)? Help please
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2023, 09:51:18 PM »
Thank you for the detailed information and sharing your experience and thoughts, foresight. Seems like they are definitely finicky. Will keep everything you mentioned in mind as I continue to treat my plants. I wish they achieved even half the size of the one you pictured, considering their age.

I didn't reach out to Anderson Tropicals yet (Im 95% sure these seeds came from him), but I will. just wanted to gauge the advice and experience on the forum first.

Thank you everyone and I hope to update this thread soon with good news!

CeeJey

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Re: Health issues for Brosimum gaudichaudii (Mama-cadela)? Help please
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2023, 11:03:01 PM »
Just for an additional data-point: I had five or so which I got from Anderson or Bellamy, initially potted a few in Fox Farms Ocean Forest mix (one of my go-to bagged soils for plants that aren't super-acid-loving, since we don't get pro-mix out here in Phoenix for some reason) and they did not do well. Two died, and I re-potted the three survivors into a mix of 50%/50% pearlite and peat and they immediately perked up although they have since had the same problems that foresight listed although they haven't died yet. So they definitely seem to prefer acid. I've tried different waters periodically (distilled, ro, tap, ph-lowered tap) and they don't seem to have much of a change. I've given them a small amount of fertilizer (some diluted liquid with micros that the jaboticaba get periodically, recently some 420 rejuvenate since that seems non-offensive to most of the acid-lowers) and that didn't change much. They just kind of sit there.

My survivors do look a bit better than yours though, brown edges but at least no serious chlorosis like that.

I haven't paid much attention to them till reading this thread, I might try going back and lowering the ph even further or trying to otherwise think of a way to mimic alluvial plains like in the dry forests they come from (maybe volcanic sand/ basalt with a tiny bit of clay and ph-adjusted, like you'd get washing down from the Andes?). Now I need to get ahold of more so I can experiment.

EDIT: I went back and checked and one is actually still in the original Fox Farms mix in an air pot and doing okay color-wise although basically no growth for three months. They're all getting ph-lowered tap water atm.

2EDIT: I checked my notes and the one survivor in the Fox Farms mix was given some biochar with humic acid back when I was experimenting with that, so it did have some amendment to the base mix. Still way less growth than the other guys. These things remind me of miracle fruit where there must be some hyper-specific set of conditions.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2023, 11:12:12 PM by CeeJey »

FloridaManDan

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Re: Health issues for Brosimum gaudichaudii (Mama-cadela)? Help please
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2023, 11:01:00 AM »
Thanks for the additional info CeeJay, interesting to see so many varied conditions and yet so many unhappy plants lol. Ill probably buy some equipment to get a better idea of my soil parameters, would be good to have on hand regardless.

FloridaManDan

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Re: Health issues for Brosimum gaudichaudii (Mama-cadela)? Help please
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2023, 11:28:31 AM »
An update for the current and future growers of this species:

At this point, I think its safe to terminate my plant (the other one died on its own accord) as the health issues are too persistent. I am still leaning towards fungal issues as the ultimate reason for their weakness and demise. New soil, micronutrients, pH adjustment, etc nothing seemed to help.

Initially after a series of fungicide baths, both plants were pushing clean new growth with healthier-looking, darker leaves. Then they shed those leaves, one plant died, and the other is pushing new chlorotic leaves with brown spotting (pictured below). Overall, I think I just got unlucky with the circumstances.



This straggler is free to anyone who wants to bother before I send him to 'live on the farm up north'

TropicalFruitSeeker

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Re: Health issues for Brosimum gaudichaudii (Mama-cadela)? Help please
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2023, 11:38:52 AM »
This is one I've been struggling with too. I've bought probably 10 seeds across 2 years, they always sprout, do well, then shed leaves and die. I have one left that looks like your straggler. a few leaves on a twig. If I lived closer I'd come pick it up, but I don't think it would survive a trip to my farm up north  :P

Timbogrow

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Re: Health issues for Brosimum gaudichaudii (Mama-cadela)? Help please
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2023, 12:19:50 PM »
I feel the pain. Some of my cerrado species have been pretty tough to keep healthy looking but I've managed to keep most of them happy and looking good. I was contemplating going behind the baseball fields and filling a pot up with that red clay and mixing it with some quality well draining potting mix to more mimic the soil. Maybe I'll give it a go this year when the cool seeds start showing up for sale to see if makes a difference.

 

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