Author Topic: PT-plusXValentine cross  (Read 1262 times)

Ilya11

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PT-plusXValentine cross
« on: November 16, 2023, 12:28:08 PM »
Probably succeeded to have it.
It was done with castrated  PTP flowers pollinated by Valentine pummelo. I tried also another way, but failed.
This year was supposed to be the last to try any cross with PTP, previously the seedlings although different in vigor were rather uniform in the shape of leaves and overall look alike.
Now only one third of them (I am germinating 85 seeds) look like those of poncirus, the rest are clearly different.



Putative nucellar seedling to the right. Red arrows point to the tiny unfoliate alternate first leaves typical for pure poncirus seedlings.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2023, 12:30:52 PM by Ilya11 »
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                       Ilya

a_Vivaldi

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Re: PT-plusXValentine cross
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2023, 01:10:38 PM »
Now that's an interesting cross.

I assume the motivation here for the larger, juicier fruit + red coloration. Pigmented pomelo is used rather than a blood orange because of better results from poncirus hybrids with pomelo rather than orange, yes?

Till

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Re: PT-plusXValentine cross
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2023, 02:57:27 PM »
Very nice, Ilya. I would say: definitely hybrids. Then you have a chance of about 50% to get sweet fruits from the hybrids because of the Siamese Sweet genes. Bernhard Voss has a sweet Chandler x Poncirus cross. How sweet the fruits will be we will see. But 50% should at most have half of Poncirus acidity.
Cf. our discussion about the inheritance of low acidity: https://citrusgrowersv2.proboards.com/thread/728/inheritance-low-acidity
Very good cross. I wish I had done it myself.  :) Well, perhaps we can exchange pollen in about ten years when my Chandler crosses are flowering (Chandler x (African Shadock x Poncirus) & C. ichangensis x Chandler). Then we create the super sweet hardy citrus.  :)

Ilya11

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Re: PT-plusXValentine cross
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2023, 05:30:53 PM »
Now that's an interesting cross.

I assume the motivation here for the larger, juicier fruit + red coloration. Pigmented pomelo is used rather than a blood orange because of better results from poncirus hybrids with pomelo rather than orange, yes?
Valentine is a very special variety with genes for two types of internal pigmentation and a gene for acidless feature.
At least in the case of combination with other cultivars of citrus it is able to diminish the acidity even when present in one copy.
I hope that this will be also a case in  poncirus hybrids.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

Pandan

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Re: PT-plusXValentine cross
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2023, 08:28:44 PM »
Congrats on the success! I was planning on the same cross.

BorisR

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Re: PT-plusXValentine cross
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2023, 11:25:10 PM »
Great, Ilya!
I see everyone wanted to do the same 😊 I also got myself Valentino a couple of years ago, but it's still far from flowering. I believe Valentino gives zygotic seeds. I wonder why the reverse crossing failed? A large style? ;D
« Last Edit: November 16, 2023, 11:27:21 PM by BorisR »

Ilya11

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Re: PT-plusXValentine cross
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2023, 03:33:56 AM »
Great, Ilya!
I see everyone wanted to do the same 😊 I also got myself Valentino a couple of years ago, but it's still far from flowering. I believe Valentino gives zygotic seeds. I wonder why the reverse crossing failed? A large style? ;D
PT-plus cross also  was early failed ;)
It seems to me that generally crosses with poncirus are not easy to perform.
Valentine is abundantly flowering, but fruit set is quite limited, most fruitlets drop rapidly.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

mikkel

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Re: PT-plusXValentine cross
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2023, 07:05:16 AM »
Well done! Let`s hope for a short juvenility. 
Is Valentine more effective than Chandler to diminish the acidity in its progenity?
« Last Edit: November 17, 2023, 07:19:00 AM by mikkel »

poncirsguy

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Re: PT-plusXValentine cross
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2023, 10:45:37 AM »
valentine drops most all flowers for in ground trees and for potted tree they often keep flowering till they die.  It will drop golf ball size fruit to get energy to continuing its flowering.  I have to pick very small buds if I want the tree to hold fruit

Millet

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Re: PT-plusXValentine cross
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2023, 11:43:50 AM »
Ilya11,  I notice you just push your seeds partially into the soil, with the top half of the seeds still in the air.  I have always buried my seeds  1/2 to 1 inch into he soil.  I further noticed your method of seed germination was very high, and still applied enough moisture to the seeds for a high germination.
Thank you for your post.

Ilya11

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Re: PT-plusXValentine cross
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2023, 05:05:22 PM »
Millet,
The seeds are germinated in zip locked packets in slightly moist  perlite at 30C. After root appearence they are transfered on the surface of substrate in covered pots.

« Last Edit: November 17, 2023, 05:06:55 PM by Ilya11 »
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                       Ilya

tedburn

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Re: PT-plusXValentine cross
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2023, 12:36:27 PM »
Interesting combination Ilya, Valentine excellent pomelo and quite early maturity,
mine  have  been excellent foer eating mid January.
So my question is are the fruits of PT plus also without poncirus taste ?
Curious how your seedlings come out ? Beginning with your hardiness tests
and leaf taste ?

Ilya11

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Re: PT-plusXValentine cross
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2023, 02:29:57 PM »
They are just germinating.
PT-plus when fully ripe (can be detached easily) does not have internal oils and poncirus aftertaste.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

sc4001992

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Re: PT-plusXValentine cross
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2023, 06:03:47 AM »
FYI, I have a very large tree that is mainly Valentine and Reinking pomelo. If any of you would like me to save some pollen i can try and send it to you for your next experiment. I always get many Valentine fruits on my large tree. I was thinking of cutting the tree down to half the size next week so let me know if any of you would like the pollen then maybe I will leave the tree alone to get more pollen. Tree is about 30 yrs old.

Till

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Re: PT-plusXValentine cross
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2023, 06:49:56 AM »
HI SC4001992,
I would like to get pollen. Can you dry it und send it to Germany? I want to pollinate C. ichangensis, Dunstan Citrumelo and Poncirus with it.

sc4001992

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Re: PT-plusXValentine cross
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2023, 07:55:23 AM »
When my tree has flowers I will save it for you, just give me the proper method to store it for you. Right now my tree has many large fruits hanging.

sc4001992

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Re: PT-plusXValentine cross
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2023, 08:04:51 PM »
Ilya11, can explain to me what you mean by two types of internal pigmentation?

"Valentine is a very special variety with genes for two types of internal pigmentation and a gene for acidless feature."

Are you referring to the flesh color sometimes being red inside on some fruits, but others are yellow? My fruits do not all have the red pigmentation, some are completely yellow flesh, but both types seem to taste about the same to me. My tree usually has about 50 fruits that hold on the tree so I need to thin it down to about 30 each year or it will break my branches from the weight.


Ilya11

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Re: PT-plusXValentine cross
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2023, 05:01:42 AM »
Sorry for the mistake.
Valentine contains only the gene of anthocyanine pigmentation coming from Ruby orange ancestor.
The other type of pigmentation due to the presence of lycopene is absent.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

alexmed95

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Re: PT-plusXValentine cross
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2023, 12:25:51 PM »
Probably succeeded to have it.
It was done with castrated  PTP flowers pollinated by Valentine pummelo. I tried also another way, but failed.
This year was supposed to be the last to try any cross with PTP, previously the seedlings although different in vigor were rather uniform in the shape of leaves and overall look alike.
Now only one third of them (I am germinating 85 seeds) look like those of poncirus, the rest are clearly different.



Putative nucellar seedling to the right. Red arrows point to the tiny unfoliate alternate first leaves typical for pure poncirus seedlings.


Hi Ilya,

Knowing that you have germinated 85 seeds, how will you decide which one to move forward with? Assuming you won't grow 85 seedlings until they are mature enough to bear fruits... What is your usual selection process?

Thanks

Ilya11

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Re: PT-plusXValentine cross
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2023, 08:52:33 AM »
I shall probably select by forced freezing of -8C at the 15 cm stem stage, like I do for the rest of my hybrids.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

kumin

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Re: PT-plusXValentine cross
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2023, 09:02:08 AM »
Ilya, what time duration do you subject the seedlings to -8C? Do you do any cold pre-exposure prior to the testing? Your procedure certainly could reduce time, space and materials expended on doomed seedlings. Thanks

Ilya11

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Re: PT-plusXValentine cross
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2023, 10:51:17 AM »
As an acclimatation step I  expose pots to outside conditions for two weeks during February and March. Usually average temperatures in this period  change from 8 to 12°C. 
In temperature  controlled freezer the pots with seedlings are kept at 0°C overnight, -4.5°C for 3 hours and -8°C for four hours. Then the are left with power off overnight. In 6 hours the soil temperature of pots  reaches 0°C. 
Best regards,
                       Ilya

 

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