Author Topic: Golden Queen Mango?  (Read 42564 times)

bangkok

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #50 on: December 14, 2012, 06:43:57 AM »
Today i was in the mango specialist shop where i saw 200 Red Dragon mangotree's some weeks ago. They had only 4 pieces left ands till cost 30 us$ which is a very high price for thailand. I wanted to buy Rapoza but i cannot communicate with them and i think they have never heard of it. I want Rapoza because its anthracnose resistance and because it should taste so good (and looks). For that one i will pay 30$ here not for any other.

The mangoshop nextdoor to the big shop told me Red Dragon is probably also the same as Ivory (Elephant) and Jakrapat and that someone just grows them from a species which came from seed mixed.

There is also NDM Red for sale here, they make species faster then internet can follow. Red Dragon is not in Google that means it is very new.

I think if i had loads of Rapoza mango's and sell them very expensive here they will fly out of the shops. Also the tree's will be sold quick after that. Nobody has ever seen a Red Dragon mango in real here and also not on the web. I saw pictures at some shop who sells the tree's but maybe it tastes crap.

I read you asked what i would grow if i started a farm to live from, well i would grow Rapoza in Thailand and sell them only expensive to Thai and Singapore and Honkong and Kuala Lumpur etc. Just make a hype of it like new from Hawai!

bsbullie

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #51 on: December 14, 2012, 07:02:04 AM »
From what you say, you have not tasted Rapoza, correct?  Putting Oscar and Hawaii aside, I can tell you from having it grown in Florida that it is not that great...I would say average at best.  Could it produce differently in Hawaii compared to Florida, of course, climate, soil and overall growing conditions are different.  With that being said, there is a reason it is not known or available in Thailand and I would bet my money that if you grew it you would not become rich off of it...in fact, my guess is you would wind up with an abundant supply of fruit for your own consumption.  There are just too many varieties available in Thailand that are far better.  Just my 2 Bahts...
- Rob

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #52 on: December 14, 2012, 07:09:08 AM »
Today i was in the mango specialist shop where i saw 200 Red Dragon mangotree's some weeks ago. They had only 4 pieces left ands till cost 30 us$ which is a very high price for thailand. I wanted to buy Rapoza but i cannot communicate with them and i think they have never heard of it. I want Rapoza because its anthracnose resistance and because it should taste so good (and looks). For that one i will pay 30$ here not for any other.

The mangoshop nextdoor to the big shop told me Red Dragon is probably also the same as Ivory (Elephant) and Jakrapat and that someone just grows them from a species which came from seed mixed.

There is also NDM Red for sale here, they make species faster then internet can follow. Red Dragon is not in Google that means it is very new.

I think if i had loads of Rapoza mango's and sell them very expensive here they will fly out of the shops. Also the tree's will be sold quick after that. Nobody has ever seen a Red Dragon mango in real here and also not on the web. I saw pictures at some shop who sells the tree's but maybe it tastes crap.

I read you asked what i would grow if i started a farm to live from, well i would grow Rapoza in Thailand and sell them only expensive to Thai and Singapore and Honkong and Kuala Lumpur etc. Just make a hype of it like new from Hawai!

From the varieties that are not very common like Mahachanok, Chokanon, etc what  can someone find there in the big markets of Bangkok if you know?

mod edit: I fixed the Mahachanok spelling for easier searching on the forum.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 09:42:16 AM by murahilin »
Mike

bangkok

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #53 on: December 14, 2012, 08:39:30 AM »
‪Hawaiian Grown TV - ‬Rapoza Mango‪ - ‬Poamoho Organic Produce   just skip the first 5 minutes of the video.

Well Asia has a status-culture. If you put big rapoza's with nice color on the market you sure will sell them for a good price because people will buy it as a present or think it must be very good because of the price. Even if it is not that good, there are no red or purple mango's for sale here, i have never seen them neither has my wife.

If you say this is from Hawaii then that makes it even more interesting. I also have never seen or tasted a Rapoza but from internet i got very curious to taste and grow them. Anthracnose resistant is also great for us.

Why people buy the expensive mangotree's here without ever tasting or seeing the fruit? Only for color and to show that they have something different. If Rapoza is not as nice as a thai mango then people will know it soon but maybe they grow better in Thailand then in Florida? I have no idea but i dont understand why you Americans have such different mango's then the Asians have. You grow also the asian versions beside the normal ones but here they grow only the asians, nothing else.

Now on the markets is green mango's as Kaew (means glass and nice sweet if ripe), Mundanao (or something like that), Falan and some more green ones but i cannot read the thai description from them.
Yellow mango is Okrung and NDM from new harvest.

Chocanon is nothing special here but not for sale now. Mahachanok i only see in expensive supermarkets sometimes but at the moment only NDM which they have year around. I bought r2e2 once in the ssupermarket but i was not impressed. I also grow them myself the r2e2 but only for the color.

Jakrapat as a tree is sold in many shops now but i have never tasted the fruit. On the kasetsart agriculturefair the fruits were for sale but very expensive i remember. My graft from jakrapat just flushed since today so i have to wait long, it is on a chocanon tree which i multigrafted with 4 red species to give away and i m also grafting it on my 2 ndm tree's.

To grow fruit for a living i would go for the hype-effect. I also saw the mango with that nob on the side from Florida, we have never seen something like that here and sure it will sell no matter how it tasts. If you sell something like that to the richer capital city's in Asia i think you can sell easy because people will buy it for the looks. Or to give to their friends on the country-side like: Look what we have in BKK now! Here i bought one for you!

msk0072

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #54 on: December 14, 2012, 11:34:05 AM »
What kind of grafted mango trees can you find now in the nurseries except the common varieties?
Mike

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #55 on: December 14, 2012, 01:40:06 PM »
According to what I have read on the Golden Queen, it seems to have good disease resistance.

as for marketing, I understand that having something exotic to sell to a niche market at a higher price can be a good idea, specially when the market is already flooded with common varieties.

but one has to take into account that those common varieties are popular for a reason, usually because they produce well in the region, and have a flavor preferred by the majority of the people.

If you can get popular varieties to produce outside their normal season, you can get a lot better price, so this is another option.

there are so many disease resistant varieties that have commercial potential,  Rapoza may be an excellent mango in Hawaii, and may or may not do well at other locations, but will it have a flavor that your market will like?  I have only tried a few Eastern type mangoes and have noticed they seem to have a stronger or different flavor than American types.

If you have noticed in this forum, people have a preference for certain varieties they grew up on, the Aussies love their KP, Hawaiian Rapoza, in Mexico its the Ataulfo, in the Dominican Republic, the Banilejo. and on and on.  to the locals that grew up on a particular variety, its that variety that they use to measure and compare all other varieties they try. 

As an example,  Banilejo, is a small slightly fibrous mango that is very sweet.  and is a favorite to locals in the DR. give someone a Kent or Haden, and they find them bland in comparison.  another variety is the "gota de oro" this is the second favorite, and it is like eating a mop soaked in sweetened mango juice.   Keitt is becoming popular now, because it has a decent strong flavor, and farmers love it for many other reasons.

My solution is to collect about a dozen popular commercial varieties and then test them with people to see how they will do.  since Dominican seem to have a preference for intensely sweet varieties, they may actually love varieties from the east.  So far I have Kesar, Alphonso, Maha Chanok, Manila,   also have the new Zill varieties, except Angie which I still want to get.  also want to get the Golden Queen, and a few more like the Sindhu, Xoai Cat Hoa Loc, Cat chu, Chausa and Neelam

I will be testing, Rapoza, Osteen, and a couple others as potential export varieties. who knows maybe there will be a market locally for them, not everyone has the same tastes.
William
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bangkok

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #56 on: December 14, 2012, 07:31:47 PM »
Well in Thailand the looks are the most important of all else. Also the price should be high so people get curious and if you name it Hawaii mango then nobody knows where hawaii is but they heard that word in some movie probably and get curious.  They will buy it as a gadget and if it really is nice enough then they will come back i guess.

You should see how many people use whitener here, totally crazy. It is even in lipstick or deodorant or any creme. Thai will not go in the sunshine to protect their skin (i mean the Hi-so Thai with money) or they will wear a full wetsuit to go swimming. Looks count a lot here.

Asian people don't travel much because it is expensive and you have to speak english for that. They are curious though about other worlds. I think a white mango will also sell well here if you call it "snow-white mango" or Polar-bear or something like that which is sure not an asian word and has to do with cold and snow or a cute bear (Thai think you can cuddle polar-bears like a Panda).

Also for sale here are huge red apples from Japan, cost more then 10us$ for 1 in the supermarkets. Fiji Apple for 6-7 us$ are also for sale. They are big and red and also nice for an apple but my wife thinks they are sour, she prefers the Snow Pear from Korea more because they are more sweet and more juicy.

"Japanese fruit" Shop in Ginza Shopping District Tokyo Japan (World Travel Report) MTP
Look at this fruitshop in Tokyo, they are the richest Asians and are an example for many other asians.


murahilin

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #57 on: December 14, 2012, 09:18:34 PM »
Today i was in the mango specialist shop where i saw 200 Red Dragon mangotree's some weeks ago. They had only 4 pieces left ands till cost 30 us$ which is a very high price for thailand. I wanted to buy Rapoza but i cannot communicate with them and i think they have never heard of it. I want Rapoza because its anthracnose resistance and because it should taste so good (and looks). For that one i will pay 30$ here not for any other.

The mangoshop nextdoor to the big shop told me Red Dragon is probably also the same as Ivory (Elephant) and Jakrapat and that someone just grows them from a species which came from seed mixed.

There is also NDM Red for sale here, they make species faster then internet can follow. Red Dragon is not in Google that means it is very new.

I think if i had loads of Rapoza mango's and sell them very expensive here they will fly out of the shops. Also the tree's will be sold quick after that. Nobody has ever seen a Red Dragon mango in real here and also not on the web. I saw pictures at some shop who sells the tree's but maybe it tastes crap.

I read you asked what i would grow if i started a farm to live from, well i would grow Rapoza in Thailand and sell them only expensive to Thai and Singapore and Honkong and Kuala Lumpur etc. Just make a hype of it like new from Hawai!

Red Dragon may be the brand name of a mango selling company. Here is what I found: http://www.agriculturesource.com/p-cat-hoa-loc-mango-550139.html
Look at what it says for brand.

Also check this out: http://www.reddragon.vn/?Acat=12&lg=eg&start=0

Maybe someone is selling the trees from the variety that Red Dragon usually sells? Or maybe there is a new mango cultivar named Red Dragon.

Tim

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #58 on: December 15, 2012, 12:08:03 AM »
Lol Thais are selling Vietnamese mangoes now?
Tim

bangkok

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #59 on: December 15, 2012, 08:00:35 AM »
I found the same links when i searched for red dragon.

In the wholesale mangotree shop that sold them they showed me a pic of it on a leaflet some weeks ago. It was a red colored mango. They sell this one also on Chatuchak market and i saw it in other mangotree shops but always 1000 baht =30us$

I only want a scion of it but i m sure within some months i get that for a few bucks grafted on a rootstock.

Maybe we should google on Red Dragon in Chinese language or Taiwanese or so.

I will let my wife do now in thai characters.

bangkok

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #60 on: December 15, 2012, 08:06:55 AM »
http://www.flickr.com/photos/62360619@N06/6080155204/#

The wife is busy with The Voice of Thailand but i found this pic of red dragon......well i saw a more red pic in the shop but this might be it....they call this red??? But that is what i mean, bring a real red Irwin to the market here and they dont believe it is a mango ;D


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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #61 on: December 15, 2012, 09:53:42 PM »
I found a little background history on the Jin Huang ( aka: Golden Queen, Elephant ) Mango.  and according to this article Jin_Huang parents are "White" and "Keitt". which i find a bit strange,  not sure what the "White" variety looks like, but Jin-Huang looks more like an over grown Nam Doc Mai, and I remember coming across a post somewhere saying it was a chance seedling of NDM.

http://enquarterly.tzuchiculture.org.tw/?mod=tc_monthly_en&act=detail&id=94

Ok I think i have finally solved this mystery,  the "white" mango is called "Nang Klang Wan"   so Golden Queen is a cross between Nang Klang Wan and Keitt. also found out it is poly embryonic .



This mango sure looks like the Ivory.  which would explain the "White" translation from the other website.

William
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Felipe

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #62 on: December 16, 2012, 07:19:26 AM »
Last time when my friend was there a few months ago took some tree in his suitcase traveling back home. Small trees like mangos, durian, jackfruit, etc. about 60-70cm high. I do not know where he bought all these. He packed the tree in plastic bags bare root without anything. They arrived fine but in about 4-5weeks all the tree died. He didn't know how to handle such stuff. I hope this time is better prepared. If you find another good place where some one can  buy really good stuff let me know.

Beware of importing pests, specilly mango malformation disease!!!

On the other hand, I would not waste time and money with ultra tropicals like durian, mangostan, rambutan, chempedak, langsat... Species that could suit at your location would be Syzygium sp, jackfruit, santol...

msk0072

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #63 on: December 16, 2012, 02:53:09 PM »
Last time when my friend was there a few months ago took some tree in his suitcase traveling back home. Small trees like mangos, durian, jackfruit, etc. about 60-70cm high. I do not know where he bought all these. He packed the tree in plastic bags bare root without anything. They arrived fine but in about 4-5weeks all the tree died. He didn't know how to handle such stuff. I hope this time is better prepared. If you find another good place where some one can  buy really good stuff let me know.

Beware of importing pests, specilly mango malformation disease!!!

On the other hand, I would not waste time and money with ultra tropicals like durian, mangostan, rambutan, chempedak, langsat... Species that could suit at your location would be Syzygium sp, jackfruit, santol...
Hi Felipe
I have all these in my mind so the trees take a separate place in the greenhouse for a period. Ι don't say that the risk is eliminated but is lower.
My big desire is to grow durian here. I know is not easy because of the ultra tropic nature of the tree. I will try something different after having more knowledge also through the forum and I hope the result is positive at the end.
Mike

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #64 on: December 17, 2012, 03:39:20 PM »
Mike, could maybe have success with durian in a heated greenhouse, but never outdoors. At the canarian research station they (professionals) have tried many times with ultratropicals. The imported a few times durian seeds, seedlings and even grafted plants. Sooner or later they lost the plants. They have one last mangosteen in a heated greenhouse (very high humidity) but it barely doesn't grow. Same story with langsat, rambutan... I like durian a lot, I wish it could grow in subtropical climate  :-\

On the other hand there are many other species with very good tasting fruit that could perform at your place: longan, litchi, annonaceas, sapotaceas, myrtaceas... I would focus on them ;)

msk0072

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #65 on: December 18, 2012, 11:41:17 AM »
Mike, could maybe have success with durian in a heated greenhouse, but never outdoors. At the canarian research station they (professionals) have tried many times with ultratropicals. The imported a few times durian seeds, seedlings and even grafted plants. Sooner or later they lost the plants. They have one last mangosteen in a heated greenhouse (very high humidity) but it barely doesn't grow. Same story with langsat, rambutan... I like durian a lot, I wish it could grow in subtropical climate  :-\

On the other hand there are many other species with very good tasting fruit that could perform at your place: longan, litchi, annonaceas, sapotaceas, myrtaceas... I would focus on them ;)
Hi
This is not good news for me :(  I am sure they know much more than I know and they have a lot of experience.  I will make a try next year when the weather is more appropriated. Thank you for your suggestions for the other trees. Step by step I will try each year more fruiting trees and find out what it grows best in my climate.
Mike

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #66 on: February 06, 2013, 05:34:22 PM »
Mike, could maybe have success with durian in a heated greenhouse, but never outdoors. At the canarian research station they (professionals) have tried many times with ultratropicals. The imported a few times durian seeds, seedlings and even grafted plants. Sooner or later they lost the plants. They have one last mangosteen in a heated greenhouse (very high humidity) but it barely doesn't grow. Same story with langsat, rambutan... I like durian a lot, I wish it could grow in subtropical climate  :-\

On the other hand there are many other species with very good tasting fruit that could perform at your place: longan, litchi, annonaceas, sapotaceas, myrtaceas... I would focus on them ;)
Hi
This is not good news for me :(  I am sure they know much more than I know and they have a lot of experience.  I will make a try next year when the weather is more appropriated. Thank you for your suggestions for the other trees. Step by step I will try each year more fruiting trees and find out what it grows best in my climate.

Don't give up hope yet on growing those durians. Mike T on this forum has posted lots of valuable information on types of durians and types of mangosteens that are more cold hardy. You should find this thread and read it thoroughly. Actually this came up in several threads. Or you could contact Mike T in Australia directly with a PM.
Oscar

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #67 on: February 06, 2013, 05:39:39 PM »
From what you say, you have not tasted Rapoza, correct?  Putting Oscar and Hawaii aside, I can tell you from having it grown in Florida that it is not that great...I would say average at best.  Could it produce differently in Hawaii compared to Florida, of course, climate, soil and overall growing conditions are different.  With that being said, there is a reason it is not known or available in Thailand and I would bet my money that if you grew it you would not become rich off of it...in fact, my guess is you would wind up with an abundant supply of fruit for your own consumption.  There are just too many varieties available in Thailand that are far better.  Just my 2 Bahts...

Rob, you should realize that climate in Bankok is very different from climate where you live. And although you judege from the one tree? that you grow of Rapoza that it is only average it could very well be excellent in Thailand. Also Thai people have a totally different perception of mangos than you do. Asian preferences are very different than American preferences in mangos. But if Bangkok is looking merely for red coloration in a mango then maybe he should try Florida's favorite: Tommy Atkins? It might be a lot easier to get than the Rapoza and it also produces well and has very nice coloration. Florida growers and world wide it is a very popular mango, never mind that it is almost completely tasteless!  :'(
Oscar

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #68 on: February 06, 2013, 08:03:16 PM »
I have noticed on some websites that Irwin seems to be very popular in some Asian countries, and is grown in Japan, and sold for a very high price. 
William
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bangkok

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #69 on: February 06, 2013, 08:37:51 PM »
I have noticed on some websites that Irwin seems to be very popular in some Asian countries, and is grown in Japan, and sold for a very high price.

I cannot find the link anymore but i saw a pic of 2 irwin mango's growing in japan and costed 2000$ a pair! They were hanging on ropes and looked perfect. 2000 a pair i would like to know what the Japanese see in those fruits or what is the reason that they buy it for that money.

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #70 on: February 06, 2013, 10:33:18 PM »
Its a culture thing, they are sold as "gift fruits" I have seen many videos of tourist freaking out over cantaloupes that cost 400 dollars, and things like that.  from what I was told,  these are purchased and given away to impress and as status symbols,  cheaper costing fruit can be found in markets and stores etc.

I have seen that picture your talking about, the Irwin mangoes are suspended in nets above the trees, which are kept small and are growing in a green house. looks more like something from some futuristic sci fi movie.
William
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bsbullie

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #71 on: February 06, 2013, 11:29:22 PM »
From what you say, you have not tasted Rapoza, correct?  Putting Oscar and Hawaii aside, I can tell you from having it grown in Florida that it is not that great...I would say average at best.  Could it produce differently in Hawaii compared to Florida, of course, climate, soil and overall growing conditions are different.  With that being said, there is a reason it is not known or available in Thailand and I would bet my money that if you grew it you would not become rich off of it...in fact, my guess is you would wind up with an abundant supply of fruit for your own consumption.  There are just too many varieties available in Thailand that are far better.  Just my 2 Bahts...

Rob, you should realize that climate in Bankok is very different from climate where you live. And although you judege from the one tree? that you grow of Rapoza that it is only average it could very well be excellent in Thailand. Also Thai people have a totally different perception of mangos than you do. Asian preferences are very different than American preferences in mangos. But if Bangkok is looking merely for red coloration in a mango then maybe he should try Florida's favorite: Tommy Atkins? It might be a lot easier to get than the Rapoza and it also produces well and has very nice coloration. Florida growers and world wide it is a very popular mango, never mind that it is almost completely tasteless!  :'(
From my post you should be able to surmise that I realize Thailand is different than SFla, and Hawaii.  While I know you have spent your fair share of time in Thailand, my comment was based on people I know who make, or have made, regular visits to Thailand and people I have talked to who have lived in Thailand.  Yes, Rapoza could produce totally different there but from what I know, which is second hand knowledge, I don't feel it would be a hit there.  I also have my doubts that it would even be worthy of growing for export purposes (I repeat, no disrespect to you or anybody who likes the Rapoza, no matter where it is grown)...I just don't see it from what I have tasted.  Again, there can be some differences when grown from location to location, however a Tommy Atkins is still a Tommy Atkins, no matter where it is grown.
- Rob

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #72 on: February 07, 2013, 12:45:53 AM »
I'm pretty sure Rob if you tated Rapozas here in Hawaii you would change your mind. It's very hard to know how a fruit will fare when marketed in another country. I think it's mostly dependent on how it's promoted and marketed, and a lot less on the quality of the fruit itself. I think Tommy Atkins proves this point.
Oscar

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #73 on: February 07, 2013, 01:11:14 AM »
For red color on my mango's i have enough scions growing now, actually Jakrapat which is Jin Huang (or something like that) it looks very purple on the pic but in real they are brown, i just saw them on the Kasetsart fair but could not taste it.

Now the red Dragon and the Summer Snow are new variaty's which sell for 1000 baht a small grafted tree. I will wait some years before i buy them and taste them first. I have Aiwen growing allready which is also red and from Taiwan and grafts easy.

I believe Oscar that Rapoza is very nice because he has travelled a lot and can taste the differences. I also believe people who say they are not nice but i guess Hawai has about the same climate as Thailand but with more rain but a very different soil.

Anyway i like to hear any opinion wheter it is against mine or whatever. I have heard enough about Tommy mango's and last week a tree was offered to me from Tooommiiiii, which i guess it is Tommy Atkins but i dont know because i dont believe thai sellers on a fair no more.

Ohh now i am thinking about the 400 gram of 0-0-60 i put in the ground under my ndm4, maybe that made my collapsed mango that i ate yesterday so sweet. It grew in the shade in a bag all the time and was not ripe to pick yet but very sweet and also some sour tones. I also have a ndm4 on my other tree and will compare the taste, that tree did not get the 0-0-60.



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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #74 on: February 07, 2013, 01:45:59 AM »
Mike, could maybe have success with durian in a heated greenhouse, but never outdoors. At the canarian research station they (professionals) have tried many times with ultratropicals. The imported a few times durian seeds, seedlings and even grafted plants. Sooner or later they lost the plants. They have one last mangosteen in a heated greenhouse (very high humidity) but it barely doesn't grow. Same story with langsat, rambutan... I like durian a lot, I wish it could grow in subtropical climate  :-\

On the other hand there are many other species with very good tasting fruit that could perform at your place: longan, litchi, annonaceas, sapotaceas, myrtaceas... I would focus on them ;)

Hi
This is not good news for me :(  I am sure they know much more than I know and they have a lot of experience.  I will make a try next year when the weather is more appropriated. Thank you for your suggestions for the other trees. Step by step I will try each year more fruiting trees and find out what it grows best in my climate.

Don't give up hope yet on growing those durians. Mike T on this forum has posted lots of valuable information on types of durians and types of mangosteens that are more cold hardy. You should find this thread and read it thoroughly. Actually this came up in several threads. Or you could contact Mike T in Australia directly with a PM.
Thanks Oscar.
It is obviously that like durian very much so I try to follow each thread in this forum. I can say for sure I know much more mow than 1 or 2 yrs ago and that because of the knowledge of many forum members. I hope I can transfer this knowledge in to the action and one day can eat my own durian. One of my dreams will be true. Awesome! ;D
Big thanks to all of you! :).
Mike

 

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