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Messages - manfromyard

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Citrus General Discussion / Re: Switching from juvenile to adult
« on: January 26, 2024, 09:23:09 PM »
Genetics are an important factor. Limes and kumquats are reported to be precocious. Grapefruit and Sweet Orange take longer,with Mandarins being intermediate. Citrumelos, despite being Grapefruit hybrids can be precocious. By virtue of close planting within a cold frame, my plants responded by quickly growing into tall plants. This seemed to promote early flowering, but only affected some of the seedlings.
A height of 3 meters seems to trigger a percentage of the trees to flower. It's also possible that having the tree tops hit the polyethylene film ceiling, then deflecting to the side accelerated the transition to maturity. The peak of the ceiling is 3.2m in height.

This is similar to the research in Florida to speed up flowering. I think theyve gotten fruit on 2 year old seedlings by pruning side branches, growing the plant as a spindle, then bending the trunk at  a specific height to induce flowering..

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Uga Changsha fruit already in stores...
« on: December 10, 2023, 06:34:21 PM »
Are these really Sweet Frost? In the top left it says "Satsuma" or is that another bag?

Most bagged citrus just carry the trade name. But Changsha looks, smells, and tastes different from Owari or any other mainstream varieties. The peel in particular has a very distinctive smell. I'm as sure as I can be. Just like you can tell a Minneola or Shiranui from a normal satsuma...

I couldn't tell Owari apart from Brown's select or Armstrong, but Changsha is something different...

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Uga Changsha fruit already in stores...
« on: December 10, 2023, 06:30:30 PM »
Is it completely seedless?

They are mostly seedless. Mine is next to my Meyer lemon so ends up with 5 or 6 seeds per fruit. These had 0-3 so they must be isolated from pollinators I guess..

Citrus General Discussion / Uga Changsha fruit already in stores...
« on: December 07, 2023, 06:05:45 PM »
So I got these mandarins in Publix because my trees are still recovering from last year. When I unloaded the bag, I did think the Citrus looked familiar. Once I tasted them, I said it tastes like my Changsha. I smelled the peel, and yes, I'm positive. I didn't realize that the commercial growers had already hit production with these. They have a very good flavor but the texture may be off putting to the inexperienced. Don't ever say anymore that Changsha is not commercial quality. Lol..

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Southeastern Citrus Expo
« on: November 26, 2023, 10:33:08 AM »
Thank you sir! I'm so happy that recordings of the presentations are now being made. I have been 2 of these, and I was always annoyed when I missed one because I was late or speaking to other attendees...

Apparently it's been out since the 60s, just hasn't been widespread.

It's got pictures there and there's a couple lines in "The Citrus Industry"..

Yuzu X Citrumelo looks like a very interesting cross. Please update us on the taste when it reaches maturity. That seems like a very probable hardy lemon like fruit...

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Good source for Yuzuquat?
« on: June 24, 2023, 12:07:55 AM »
does it retain the "yuzu" flavor and or scent in the peel or juice?

I've only had fruit from it once, but it was OK. Small lemonish sour fruit, a bit smaller than my citrangequat. It also never gets sweet. An extremely thorny plant...

The yuzu flavor is more in the peel than the juice. But the fruit is a bit small to get much zest..

Been fighting Anthracnose for two years with no fruit production on a seven year old Valencia Pride that used to produce good in South Florida (Key Largo). I've cut it all out several times and endlessly spray copper fungacide. Every few weeks it pops up again. Was told by a green thumb in neighborhood that I am fighting a losing battle and shoukd kill it and plant another tree because once it gets infected, it's a death sentence.
What do you guys think? If I do kill it can I replant in same area? My space for full sun is limited.

Valencia Pride is very susceptible to anthracnose, according to the University of Florida. You should probably get a more resistant variety rather than to fight an uphill battle..
For resistance, they recommend one of the following Angie, Florigon, Edward, Vallenato, Carrie, Van Dyke, Parvin, Duncan, Raposa, Fairchild, Keitt, etc..

Better to start with a more resistant variety, then try more vulnerable ones after some success..

Citrus greening, also known as Huanglongbing (HLB), has been a significant issue for the citrus industry in Florida and other parts of the world. HLB is a bacterial disease that affects citrus trees, causing fruit to become misshapen and bitter and eventually killing the tree.

The citrus industry in Florida has been greatly affected by citrus greening in recent years. According to the Florida Department of Citrus, the state's orange production has declined by more than 70% since the disease was first detected in 2005. However, Florida still produces orange juice, although the amount has decreased significantly.

To combat citrus greening, researchers and growers are working together to find solutions, including developing disease-resistant varieties of citrus trees and implementing strict disease management practices. While the situation remains challenging, there is hope that the industry will be able to overcome citrus greening and continue to provide consumers with high-quality citrus products.

How do these bots get to register?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Atlanta Winter Citrus Damage
« on: May 15, 2023, 07:54:19 PM »
Yup. Thank you. They have been out of stock since 2021 now..

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Atlanta Winter Citrus Damage
« on: May 14, 2023, 07:53:14 PM »
I have not been able to find another uga changsha so I am trying to rescue this until I can get enough wood to graft a backup..should i try pruning more now or wait till the new growth has matured?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Atlanta Winter Citrus Damage
« on: May 14, 2023, 07:50:57 PM »
Final update..Florea is good, Celeste coming back from the ground, LSU Tiger DEAD..

Citrus..Everything bit the dust other than the Citrangequat. The Thomasville is a champ. My first hardy citrus is a true Georgia survivor. The Changsha is slowly coming back, but the dead wood is giving me anxiety. How should I prune this?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Poncirus hybrid crosses
« on: May 14, 2023, 07:45:07 PM »
Actually I just saw on the website in Europe they have a lot of meyer lemon crosses. One of them is with a dwarf sour orange. The hybrid is very cold tolerant and fruit is good for cooking or lemonade type drinks with orange flavor. It is dwarf enough to grow in a container.

While not as cold tolerant as poncirus this would be a good start for breeding. The fruit is edible. Maybe cross with Florida 119, Dunstan grapefruit or satsuma or something. And put all those in the mix. Grow it in Georgia or north Carolina where it's fairly warm but colder than most citrus grow or do them as container plants or greenhouse. The end result I would buy. The poncirus would need to be highly diluted such as using fl 119 and Dunstan grapefruit in the mix. But then crossing with more edible stuff like meyer lemon, satsuma etc. Then some sour orange in the mix. Maybe cold tolerant pomelo in the mix. That sort of thing. Mostly dwarf.

Meyer lemon is the best all around plant. Fruit is only slightly bitter when fully ripe. Edible right off the tree. Very small dwarf plant especially the dwarf version grows well in containers. Decent cold tolerance. It would be the one I would cross in the mix most often. Meyer x desert lime in the mix would be good but seems a lot of those are misidentified desert lime crosses with a grapefruit or something. Seems hard to find the real thing. Desert lime would be good in the mix for disease resistance and cold tolerance. Poncirus crosses unless it's really diluted in the mix don't seem worth eating.

Yep, that would be great. I will say that the climate makes a huge difference in the same USDA zone. We've seen stuff like Yuzu and Sudachi do great in the Pacific Northwest because the temperature stays cool early and stays low. Here in the SouthEast, the winter stays much warmer which causes the plants to break dormancy constantly. The only in ground survivor for me was the Citrangequat and the Changsha which is slowly recovering. The Sudachi, Yuzu and Ichang Lemons all died. The quality of the Kumquat which stays in dormancy longer still is a huge advantage in the Southeast. So thomasville and Sinton are my keepers.

The Citrangequat in the USDA literature did better than the parent Citranges in cold weather due to the enhanced dormancy, even though they were farther away from Poncirus...

Maybe Ichang lemon X Kumquat??

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Best tasting italian lemon ?
« on: April 29, 2023, 03:07:21 PM »
Waiting on answer for this. There is not a whole lot of info on these about harvest times, flavor, productivity, etc. I'm starting to think a plain old eureka is just as good..

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Atlanta Winter Citrus Damage
« on: April 01, 2023, 10:49:35 PM »
Yuzuquat dead for sure.
The Ichang Lemon is dead all the way through the

UGA Changsha releafing and coming back.

The Sudachi got burnt again in our last late frost and even the rootstock is now dead.

Very disappointing winter. The warmth and last late frost took everything down.
1 of my 2 Rosemary plants is dead.
The Asian persimmon and Mulberry got burnt as they were already leafing and flowering out.
My figs look in a bad way. The Celeste is coming back from the ground but the LSU Tiger and Florea show no signs of life..

Looks like old faithfuls (Celeste and Thomasville) have their rep for a reason..

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« on: March 09, 2023, 08:02:16 AM »
Thanks, tedburn. I’m planning on putting my Prague on poncirus and citrumelo on poncirus that are currently in pots in ground in cold frames to test them out for next winter. I’m scaling back though. I’ve had too much to protect. Too much work for no reward. It also looks bad having tent city in the yard seven months out of the year.

I have also started scaling back. I have bought  a few replacements, but now will be maintaining less trees. The hardiest ones stay, but I've reduced my plants by a lot.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Yuzu
« on: March 03, 2023, 07:28:11 PM »
The zest was very interesting, but there wasn't enough juice to be worth it for me...
From videos and pictures, it looks like the Japanese Yuzu tend to have less seeds and more juice.
Some reviewers even comment on the smell being different..

All the ones I see in the US have more seeds, a loose rind, and are drier..

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Illegal or Not?? Mango Scions
« on: March 03, 2023, 07:16:49 PM »
Yes, copyright and patent are different.  I've never heard of criminal liability for patent violation

Look's like you're right, and no-one's done criminal yet although they've come close.

"However, there was one case out of the United States Supreme Court that came very close to imputing a standard of criminal conduct for patent infringement. In Global-Tech Appliances, Inc. v. SEB S.A., 563 U.S. 754 (2010), the Supreme Court affirmed the decision of the United States Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit and held that “induced infringement under § 271(b) requires knowledge that the induced acts constitute patent infringement.” That holding was no surprise, but what was surprising was the Court’s holding that the knowledge requirement for induced infringement included at least “willful blindness.” This raised a few criticisms among legal scholars. Jacob S. Sherkow of the Michigan Telecommunications and Technology Law Review noted that the decision “violates this longstanding separation between criminal and civil mental states.” (19 Mich. Telecomm. & Tech. L. Rev. 1 (2012)) James G. Dilmore of the Duquesne Law Review said the decision “unnecessarily blended civil and criminal standards.” (50 Duq. L. Rev. 659 (2012)) Again, I note that the decision is the closest the U.S. patent system has come to making patent infringement a crime."..

I still wouldn't sell the scions under their name, but if you do, let us know how it goes!  :-\

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Atlanta Winter Citrus Damage
« on: March 03, 2023, 07:45:11 AM »
Yep..A lot of Citrus trees lost between GA, TX, SC, etc..

My neighbor has the original changsha and Ichang lemon. Her tree are more on the Northeast side so that part stays cooler, which probably helps with dormancy. Her changsha is mostly green, in better shape than my citrangequat honestly. The Grand frost Ichang was definitely crispy, but the trunk is green under the bark, so we'll see if it comes back.

So in both cases, the Changsha is much more hardy. I rate the Ichang up to Stan Mckenzie's mark of 20F...
Think I'm pulling away from the unproven Citrus varieties after this. If I'm going to protect, might as well get an Italian lemon or something..

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Illegal or Not?? Mango Scions
« on: March 03, 2023, 07:27:35 AM »
Hello, would it be illegal to sell scions (not plants) of a patented variety of mango such as those of Zills nurseries (coco creme, etc...)

This is not legal advice, but as far as I understand it, either propagating or selling material that can be used for propagating a patented plant would be a violation of their patent rights. That's a matter of civil liability, not a crime, at far as I know. So they could sue you or send threatening letters, or both.

" Section § 506 of the Copyright Act authorizes criminal prosecution for a party who willfully infringes a copyright when the infringement:

    is for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain,
    results in the production of over $1000 worth of illegal copies; or
    involves a work intended to be commercially distributed (example: an unreleased film or music album).

Penalties for criminal copyright infringement can be found at 18 U.S.C. § 2319. Fines for criminal copyright infringement range from a minimum few thousand dollars worth up into the millions. Criminal copyright infringement penalties can even extend to to prison sentences of up to ten years in federal prison."

You can definitely go to prison for this violation. Will you? Unlikely, but I would never take that chance.
If it's just for your own use at home, the chance of them going after is you is slim. But getting paid for it will definitely put you in the spotlight..

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Atlanta Winter Citrus Damage
« on: March 01, 2023, 03:12:00 PM »
So the Sweet Frost is budding out from the grafting wood, so that's a success.

The Miho Satsuma is showing trifoliate leaves, so the graft is gone.
The Grand Frost Ichang is also showing trifoliate leaves with brown budwood so look's like a goner.
The sudachi and bloomsweet are still sitting, but the trifoliate rootstock is green and the graft wood is brown so doesn't look like they made it either.

Shocker of shockers, my meyer lemon shows green on a few trunks. We'll see if it comes back.
I will be disappointed in the UGA ichang if it doesn't return. I went back and looked at the patent application and Dr. Hanna did say that it didn't survive -11C in 2014. That would be 12F, so much less hardy than the 10C that it's touted as.

A neighbor of mine has an OG seeded IChang so I'll check to see how that one did....

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: More temperate, less tropical for zone8
« on: February 26, 2023, 11:17:55 AM »
So what about all the bight resistant varieties that have been coming out of Oregon and Missouri?
Seems like they're working for most people..

So far they're mixing Brazilian orange concentrate with the Florida Juice to make up the lost production.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Atlanta Winter Citrus Damage
« on: February 05, 2023, 11:05:08 AM »
Ok. Got outside to look at the Damage. Most of it happened on the 22nd to 24th on the runup to Christmas. Many houses and buildings had water damage from burst pipes and water tanks. I checked the weather history, and it went from 50 degrees F on the 23rd to 9 degrees F on the 24th. The damage was harsh because I was actually stuck out of State and was not able to protect any of my plants. Every Citrus plant is defoliated except one.

The Citrangequat is the clear winner. It is mostly defoliated, but most of the growth is still green with only a little tip burn. I pruned it anyway because it was getting way too tall and bushy. Come spring, I will take out some of the stems to try and keep it to 3 trunks. These winters make me too nervous to try and turn it into a tree. So it'll get the fig/ pomegranate treatment of a few trunks so that hopefully at least one will make it every winter. This one is unprotected fully out in the open.

The UGA Changsha is defoliated with maybe 30% damage. It is on the South Side of the house next to a Meyer lemon. I'll prune once growth starts in the spring.

The Meyer lemon is mostly dead with green on 2 large trunks up against the south wall. So it will probably come back, but will need serious pruning. Not sure what form will be left here. If it finally dies or comes back as sprouts, I'll pull it out and pot it as it only gives fruit every other year with these weather issues.

The potted citrus:

Miho satsuma: some green at the base, so cautiously optimistic to see if the graft survived.

Sudachi: Looks dead as a doornail, but will wait before tossing:

Bloomsweet: Some green at the base, will wait to see if graft survives.

UGA Ichang: Most of the stems are green, will wait to see how much of the form will come back. This one was bought from me by a close family friend, so sorry now that I gave it away, but will see if I can get some budwood before giving it away.

Yuzuquat: Looks dead as a doornail. All brown. This one was never really that hardy for me. I think the warm winters just don't agree with it.

Moral of the story: The Japanese varieties just aren't cut out for the Southeast. Yuzu, Yuzuquat, Sudachi should be able to take the lows, but it stays way too warm in the winter for them to harden up. I think it's back to the Kumquat hybrids for me. Thomasville is the KIng, and now Hershel has a Sinton that I will get in the Spring. That kumquat dormancy seems like an essential quality down here as opposed to California with its cooler winters.
The Ichang looks good but the fruit is way too large for me to use. A neighbor has the original non-irradiated one, and whenever they give me some, all I can do is freeze it in trays. Putting some in a cup of tea is ridiculous as one eighth of  a fruit would be enough. I would just waste the rest.

I'll update it in the Spring with my final results.

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