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Messages - 1rainman

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226
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: More temperate, less tropical for zone8
« on: January 01, 2023, 12:33:44 PM »
You just need the right grape. A native hybrid. Muench is a good one. Not sure how it would do in your soil but otherwise should do well. Champanel. Not sure how well my Florida grapes would do there but it's a similar soil and climate other than warmer here. Florida calusa grape/shuttleworthii is closely related to mustangs though slightly less acidic slightly better berry not as cold hardy. I really like them and try to get a lot of shuttleworthii in the mix of my hybrids. Pecans do well in Texas you need a southern variety though Eliot would be really good also the best tasting one.

227
Citrus General Discussion / Re: At my wits end with these two citrus trees
« on: December 30, 2022, 09:25:42 PM »
May relate to being water logged on the other soils in Florida. Citrus like sandy but pure sand is not good. But even if you use pure compost it will turn more sandy over time and pure sand in a few years as the plant absorbs compost mostly some of it washes away. So pretty hard to overdo it.

228
Agriculture tax is lower than residential. So if your house is a farm you pay a lot less in taxes in any state.

229
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Fruit trees I gave up on
« on: December 30, 2022, 08:37:49 PM »
Florida peaches do well and are productive here in Charlotte county. I guess Miami is too far south.

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Citrus General Discussion / Re: At my wits end with these two citrus trees
« on: December 30, 2022, 06:45:25 AM »
Nothing grows well in pure sand other than cactus, pineapple. Sandy soil is one thing but it's pure beach sand here. Literally everything benefits from compost added here. Even stuff like last ve oak which will grow in pure sand it grows faster with compost. And even cactus grows in potting soil though it prefers sand in some ways.

Yes citrus likes sandy dirt but pure sand doesn't hold water or nutrients.

231
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Does this tree have citrus greening?
« on: December 29, 2022, 10:15:10 PM »
Not greening. Something going on. Possibly some kind of insect or virus involved. I would spray it with neem oil to be sure and treat the roots with insecticide or water it with neem oil and water (not the best but helps). I have found tiny almost invisible slugs that sucked sap out of the tree, spider mites invisible to the eye that suck sap etc which when extremely infested can look like nutrient deficiency. The neem oil will kill whatever tiny insects that might be on it.

232
Florida lows depend how close you are to the water and how far north or south.

233
Citrus General Discussion / Re: At my wits end with these two citrus trees
« on: December 28, 2022, 02:45:20 PM »
It's overall healthy and growing, but I think it does take a little damage from greening. The trifoliate and sour oranges seem to be super healthy and have zero damage. But at least this is a tree you can grow and get good fruit from despite greening. I haven't tasted the fruit, my dads tree is less than a year and hasn't fruited yet. It is honey bell x tangerine which honey bell is one of my favorite citrus, so its 3/4 tangerine.

Google search shows most places sold out of them. I don't see the site where my dad bought it. It was from the Florida government or something. I found one place that isn't sold out. Being that it's a brand new variety (I guess maybe a couple years now) its in high demand so that they can't produce new ones fast enough. I wouldn't mind trying to get some seeds and see what they grow but that's a five or six year wait to get fruit on something grown from seed.


https://sowexotic.com/products/sugar-belle-orange-citrus-reticulata-clemintine-x-minneola#Reviews-4439640604772

Then I found a forum post on it

https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=18265.0

234
Citrus General Discussion / Re: At my wits end with these two citrus trees
« on: December 28, 2022, 10:39:14 AM »
Basically all root stocks are resistant. The sour orange, trifoliate, hybrids like swingle. It helps some but doesn't save the tree from damage.

Swingle is almost edible but not quite. I would love an edible hybrid. I guess that's what this wild orange seems to be that has been growing in the park as long as I remember. But they made better crosses and haven't released them.

My dad ordered a sugar bell online. It's a fast grower and healthy. I have never seen them at Lowes or anything.

235
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Pink pineapple experience
« on: December 28, 2022, 10:34:36 AM »
Almost every product on a grocery store shelf is mostly sugar. Buy sugar free and it's mostly artificial sugar. Then they breed new crops to be "sweeter". I'm more interested in heirloom crops where I don't go into diabetic shock eating it. I have been trying to cut sugar because it's not healthy in huge doses. They never seem to come out with more vitamins or antioxidants in New crops.

Native grapes, blackberries etc often have better flavors and better health properties because they aren't primarily sugar water. It would be an interesting novelty if not for the high price but I'm sure it will come down.

236
In south Florida pineapples grow well. Seldom fruit maybe one or two out of a large number will have a pineapple. They are always good size but I can never tell when it's fully ripe. But the racoons can tell and will steal it. More for decoration here than food. Maybe it's the lack of stressors though they do die back during the occasional freeze it doesn't help with fruiting. We get massive summer rain too.

237
Citrus General Discussion / Re: At my wits end with these two citrus trees
« on: December 27, 2022, 08:37:37 PM »
In Florida it's best to dig a big hole and fill with potting soil or compost because the sand and shells here is junk other than a small amount in the mix.

We did an oak tree with a huge hole of potting soil like 20 years ago. It's huge now you would think it's 50 years old. Even my grapes don't want to grow in this sand. The pepper trees seem unstoppable though. They must take nutrients out of the air or something. Nothing in these shells and sand except calcium. Very low nitrogen and even if you fertilize it doesn't hold nutrients just washed into the waterways causing algae blooms. The plant will get a little. The compost will hold water and nutrients.

238
Citrus General Discussion / Re: At my wits end with these two citrus trees
« on: December 27, 2022, 01:43:41 PM »
The chlorosis looks symmetrical, so I wouldn't jump to any conclusions on greening. Looks most like either manganese or zinc deficiency. Manganese deficiency shows up more in winter, so if you're in the northern hemisphere, maybe that's your best bet. The more yellowish leaves might indicate lacking of nitrogen or sulfur.

I'd recommend finding a micronutrient mix with these particular elements and doing a fortnightly foliar spray to see if things improve. Definitely check your soil pH, and lime if needed. Consider a soil test with a micronutrient check as well. I'd recommend removing the grass and mulching to at least the drip line so that they no longer need to compete with the lawn.

Nope. I have seen it 100 times in southwest florida. It's the virus. Yes it does resemble a nutrient deficiency in appearance but there is no cure for it.

239
Citrus General Discussion / Re: At my wits end with these two citrus trees
« on: December 27, 2022, 01:42:49 PM »
Citrus greening 100%. They don't die right away you have a slow death where they go on for years being unhealthy like this but steadily get worse. The whole area of Florida is infested with it. You can try the new "sugar bell" which is resistant. I have some seedlings of a wild orange that is not great but decent/edible which is resistant. I guess lemons are resistant so you could get a meyer lemon. I wish they would release some of those trifoliate hybrids which are resistant. I tried to ask anyone on the forum if they had seeds to send me but no luck.

240
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Ugli tangelo seeds.
« on: December 26, 2022, 02:58:22 PM »
Ugli fruit is not very seedy. This is due to low fertility from being a hybrid thus it may produce offspring with a lot of seeds. You'll also have huge variation due to it being a tangerine pummello cross. The fruit is big though you can get six or so seeds pretty easy. It's already one of the best citrus. I would cross it because it's awesome.

241
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Colder than normal winter in Florida 22/23?
« on: December 26, 2022, 02:43:36 PM »
There's a good chance of another cold front like this in January. other than that the weather prediction is highs in the 80s. We are permanently above average. Used to be highs in the 70s in December and January with an occasional two or three days of cold like this one. Though if there is a major volcano eruption we will get a really cold winter globally. Which actually happens quite often. I think back in 2009 or whenever it was we had record lows and snow in north Florida there was some volcano somewhere which clouds up the sky with smoke lowering global temps. So it's possible to get a cold winter but on average it's been getting warmer.

242
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Ugli tangelo seeds.
« on: December 25, 2022, 05:39:23 PM »
I'd like to get a root stock growing like a dwarf root and graft ugli fruit scions on top.

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Citrus General Discussion / Re: Ugli tangelo seeds.
« on: December 24, 2022, 02:59:25 PM »
I'd like to get an ugli tree. It tastes like a tangerine but there's a slight grapefruit or I guess pommelo taste. One of my favorite citrus. You get tangerine flavor but much larger fruit with few seeds. The grapefruit enhances it. Very juicy. I like honey bell a lot too but honey bell almost taste like an orange. Ugli has more tangerine flavor. But uglis are inconsistent. Some taste like a really good grapefruit with a hint of tangerine. Some taste like tangerines with a hint of grapefruit. Though I think it's a pummeli hybrid not grapefruit but similar concept.

244
33 last night. No frost. Don't know why everyone was freaking out. Will have to check my grape seedlings in a few days.

245
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Florida trip. Need recommendations!
« on: December 24, 2022, 02:51:49 PM »
Used to be great citrus being sold on the side of the road. Last time I bought some they were nasty dried up California oranges. Greening has taken them. You still have tomatoes and so forth. Never did it myself I was told the glass bottom boat tours were cool. It's close to Orlando or Tampa can't remember where

246
I'd rather have highs in the 60s and 70s than 80s with the Florida sun it feels hotter than it is so 69 feels like room temperature when in the sun.

I saw a post about pineapples. The tops will die but the plant will grow back after a freeze. They can grow wild in the woods here or without care. Of course a prolonged cold like up north they won't survive but a nighttime freeze doesn't kill them. Same with most bananas the top will die but it will grow back from the roots. If they are in pots might be a problem with the roots freezing that may kill it but in the ground they survive. We had them way back in the day when we got two or three freezes almost every year. It's good to cover them or bring them in if you want fruit though.

247
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Big freezes and variety selection
« on: December 23, 2022, 12:06:56 PM »
Generally grapefruit are the best survivors of cold in terms of edible fruit. Pommelos are slightly more cold hardy than grapefruit. Tangerines are more cold hardy than oranges this tangelos do well (half grapefruit half tangerine). I'm in south west Florida and before greening killed everything juice oranges didn't do well here (Valencia and such) though navels did. North Florida tangelos like honeybell or grapefruit do well. Meyer lemon but not regular lemons.

They can be grown with effort but the citrus industry really grows stuff that isn't cold tolerant enough for their zone then freaks out every time a freeze comes. Now days all the citrus is wiped out here due to greening other than some wild tolerant varieties. But a grapefruit or pommelos will grow pretty much anywhere in Florida though I guess the panhandle might be a bit stressful on them since that is the coldest part of Florida.

248
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Colder than normal winter in Florida 22/23?
« on: December 22, 2022, 02:12:11 PM »
Usually if the east coast is above average either the west coast Europe or Asia will be below average. So just speaking on the east side of the US. Florida is normally dry this time of year. Yet we've had decent rain fall and above average temps other than the one cold front in October. The cold weather coming is pretty normal then back to above average temps. Weather seems to be getting warmer in Florida. Global warming could play a role but that's only about 1 degree. Seems to be the urban heat effect from development. North of Florida is in for some record lows but the ocean is so hot from record breaking summer heat that by the time the front reaches south Florida it's not anywhere near a record low and actually pretty normal cold spell for this time of year. A good freeze would help my adult grapes. I got my seedlings wrapped in plastic with a water jug on them.

249
Danger of frost is around 33. Even that is light and melts quick. 35s etc won't frost. Some sensitive plants can be affected though. There will probably be another cold snap in January about the same or slightly colder but can't be 100% about it. Maybe 80% sure.

Usually 32 is the magick number where you'll see dead leaves but usually won't kill the tree. Usually takes the low 20s to kill most plants because we are talking about the low lasting only a few hours maybe a couple.

250
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Generally frost free
« on: December 20, 2022, 07:43:25 PM »
Bananas are easy to grow if you have a hardy variety. Lots of people grow them in the north during the summer then bring them in during winter (the corn ie root ball). They just don't like drought you have to keep them wet. Impossible to over fertilize a banana. Main problem is them having babies and spreading. I grew them in containers in Ohio. At first it was great until they have pups and don't fit. Too much work trying to put a single pup in a new container etc.

They pretty much grow wild anywhere it's warm enough and wet enough. Though there are some varieties like the red banana which are extremely cold sensitive. I had one in a pot before. There are some specialty ones that can be more difficult than others. Wild bananas actually have seeds. Though many domestic ones grow about the same toughness as a wild one or even better like raja puri. Commercial ones are hardy but they are bred for large yields and not for flavor.

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