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Messages - 1rainman

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Ian we got several feet of rain in 24 hours. The streets were flooded but it drained in a couple days. The buildings are on hills other than roof damage that let in rain most were ok. If an older area gets hit with that the buildings will be completely flooded and it won't drain as fast.

Hello Rainman, your Ian rainfall is looking like my fish that got away story, the fish gets bigger with each telling.  :)

Jokes apart, thankfully the Ft Lauderdale rainfall was very localized, 2 feet of rain in a 24 hour period is a lot of rain.  Estimated at about a 0.1% exceedance event (1 in 1000 year)  Had that much rain occurred over a larger area, terrible as this was, we would be telling a much different and sadder story.

We drove around the day after the roads were under several feet of water. It's no exaggeration. There are photos and videos.

I thought grape seedlings wouldn't be nearly as good as the parent because not true to seed or whatever and hybrid variation.

Yes there is enough variation to do selective breeding, but they are pretty similar to the parents about what you would expect but not clones of the parent. I guess it's the same with other cultivars. People make a big fuss that they aren't clones but they are similar enough.

North Port/port Charlotte is full of canals. The dirt was flung up around the canal then the canal holds water. But over the years it was discovered that isn't enough. More retention ponds have been dug then every big business building like a Walmart or even apartments have their own retention pond and it's usually a year round pond. Then they still bus in dirt and concrete to raise new houses about ten feet up either on a hill or thick concrete step that goes up a foot or so. Then it's 100% humidity much of the time. I'd rather just not live in a swamp but the growth is insane.

South Florida is a wetland/swamp which they drained in order to build on it. It dries out quickly though.

The older development pre 1980s does not have the retention ponds and drainage pipes needed. If Tampa, punta Gorda any of the older stuff gets hit with hurricane level rain the buildings will be flooded.

Ian we got several feet of rain in 24 hours. The streets were flooded but it drained in a couple days. The buildings are on hills other than roof damage that let in rain most were ok. If an older area gets hit with that the buildings will be completely flooded and it won't drain as fast.

I frequently see about a foot of rain in a day which is an insane amount of rain but south Florida is a wetland during rainy season. Never saw two feet that would definitely flood everything. Though it drains and dried out pretty quickly in Florida. Though in rainy season it rains hard almost every day so the woods turn into swamp and water pools in low areas most of the summer.

I think it went over two feet of rain during hurricane Ian. Probably three or four. Needless to say almost everything was under water but it dried out in a few days. So this is more of a once every 20 years event.

The good side Florida is an excellent source of spring water.

You could check out local grapes and bananas maybe find something interesting. Vitis tillifolia of middle and south America usually has tiny nasty grapes but you might find a decent wild one. The disease resistance is the highest tied with shuttleworthii.

Wild bananas would be worth sampling too. Watch out for seeds.

Grapes grow like weeds everywhere so one can usually sample wild ones when traveling just make sure it's actually a grape plant as some similar looking berries can make you sick. Just look up what the leaves etc look like. Grapes have different leaves but you can look up v. Tillifolia and get a good idea.

A hybrid of sour orange would be cool. They are beautiful trees and nothing wrong with the fruit other than sour. More or less like an orange flavored lemon.

Pretty much everything they sell in nurseries in Florida is most commonly on sour orange root stock, then to a lesser extent swingle or trifoliate. But they often have some kind of dwarfing root stock. Like a version of sour orange or trifoliate that keeps the tree at about 10 to 12 feet sometimes even less. Other times it's semi dwarf or not dwarf.

Citrus from seed are huge trees like an oak or maple. You can't reach the fruit unless it falls down. Some varieties are a little shorter. It's a big shade tree. They keep them short and bushy with the root stock because it's easier to pick. The huge ones from seed are much healthier long term.

Georgia rattlesnake is one of the best tasting but any watermelon will do great. The key is massive amounts of water. If you don't water them the plant will grow but the fruit will die or be small at best. They also grow well in low lying swampy areas which few plants grow in. You can flood the entire field for short periods of time. The largest watermelon farm in the united states is south Florida around arcadia. Also the heat doesn't bother them and they like sandy soil. Florida is ideal for watermelon though they grow just about anywhere.

Wait the meyer x double blood is an actual tree not a cross you made. I want the seeds 😭

Can you just sell seeds next time because it's illegal to ship citrus trees in or out of Florida. Though no one is going to check a package it's just easier.

I'd love to get crosses with meyer lemon. Preferably crossed with something resistant to greening (which meyer is resistant). Sugar bell would be great to cross with. Or a swingle crossed with something more edible would be cool. Swingle x tangelo or even x meyer.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Atlanta Winter Citrus Damage
« on: April 03, 2023, 01:06:48 AM »
A grapefruit or grapefruit hybrid would most likely survive 12 degrees if it's a short period of time. Meyer has similar cold tolerance to a tangelo (grapefruit x tangerine) which it seems to be 1/4 tangelo. So those others don't seem that cold hardy. A Dunstan "grapefruit" would easily handle that though the fruit is barely something you'd want to eat.

Just throw a frost blanket over them or something when it gets cold because a short period of 12 degrees is not bad. I mean you can work with that. Maybe a bucket of water and a blanket.

If you root a cutting they grow into relatively small bushes without deep roots and not really sufficient roots. Unless it's a container plants most people end up ripping them out of the ground in five to fifteen years. Or they just do poorly unless babied. Even though you can get some fruit from them and they fruit quickly. Grafted onto root stock I have seen a lot of them start to decline in 15 years when the root stock is not a great match. They keep sending up new branches from the bottom that suck all the energy out and kill old branches. Just high maintenance. Other grafts are 50 years old and doing fine. They do seem to grow bigger and last longer from seed. Then it's usually a big shade tree growing to 100 years old. But it takes seven years to get fruit and many are not true to type.

You would need a proven root stock scion combination for long life. The stuff that's usually sold aren't made to last long. They put them on dwarf root stock for easy harvest and replace them after 30 years.

Then cold snaps often kill the tops when grown outside and the sour orange or trifoliate starts growing into a big beautiful tree.

But of course if you put the energy into water fertilizing, trimming any of them could last 100 years but it's often not a natural tree and doesn't do well on its own long term.

Rio red is one of my favorites along with ugli fruit. Never tried the pomelo.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Valentine pomelo
« on: March 30, 2023, 04:01:45 PM »
Beautiful tree. How many years

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Yet another soil thread
« on: March 28, 2023, 06:53:17 AM »
Though shells exist for thousands of years before decaying. To give you an idea that the amount of minerals leaching out is a trace amount. But in Florida since the whole ground is full of shells we have a lot of calcium and lime in our river and well water.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: One time use Chelated Iron EDDHA
« on: March 24, 2023, 02:18:07 PM »
You might want to try sulfur. Given your location, Sheehan, you should be able to easily acidify your soil to the point where good old granular fertilizer supplies sufficient iron. The soil I had imported from delray beach responds very favorably to sulfur application. All of my ph sensitive trees that are in that soil are doing phenomenally.

Yes, Sulfur and copious amounts of organic mulch can really help eliminate the need for chelated iron drenches...

Even when growing upon limestone/in sandy alkaline soil? My interest is certainly piqued.

Yes, I am on limestone, but with more of a red laterite dust mixed with sand. 8.2 ph. After laying down casaurina straw mulch and wood chips and spreading sulfur and dry humates over the past four years, I no longer see iron deficiency issues.

We have limestone and sand in Florida. Usually if a plant has yellow leaves it's a nitrogen deficiency though iron is a factor. The sand just doesn't hold nutrients. Simple solution dig a hole fill it with compost and maybe perlite or add a little clay even. Or just fertilize all the time but then most of it goes into the water supply causing algae blooms.

I live in south Florida. We used to have a supposed low chill hour plum. It never did well. Too hot here. It got one plum once. California summer is not as hot so might do better. But yes they over sell them. Plums and apples just don't do well in hot climates.

They spend a lot of money breeding these so for every plant sold they get a couple dollars. After a period of time it is less of a concern then after more time the copyright expires. All you have to do is not sell clones.

I think the state of Florida owns the patent. I don't know of any lawsuits against a backyard grower. This is mainly for businesses.

I would like a sugar bell crossed with dunstans grapefruit or crossed with a poncirus hybrid might get something edible that has good greening tolerance. Hermaphrodite plants are too difficult for me to cross though.

Sugar bell doesn't have a lot of greening tolerance. Like just enough. I think it would need to be crossed with another tolerant variety but who knows. We have a sugar bell in my dad's yard.

Florida some stuff they release as public domain other stuff they patent. Similar with other states.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Grapes - what did I just eat?
« on: March 19, 2023, 11:00:38 PM »
Probably autumn crisp. It's fall there.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: soil wetting agents
« on: March 17, 2023, 06:34:51 PM »
But the whole thing is wet or the whole thing dry. But I soak stuff when watering.

Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Dunstan citrumelo and Carolina lime?
« on: March 17, 2023, 05:16:43 PM »
I want seeds of the newer hybrids that have Dunstan and poncirus in the background and are actually edible

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Favorite banana?
« on: March 17, 2023, 03:38:45 AM »
I think there was already a thread about this. Raja puri. It gets about 8 feet tall perfect height you can easily reach bananas. Stocky. Beautiful plant. Small bananas with really good flavor. Cold hardy more Cold hardy than most bananas.

Second would be one of the red types though they are cold sensitive. Very beautiful plants and great bananas. The one I had doesn't get too tall either. They have red bananas.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: soil wetting agents
« on: March 16, 2023, 06:59:33 PM »
Once peat is wet it stays wet. I just soak it several times when new. Never knew dry spots were a problem.

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