Author Topic: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?  (Read 2910 times)

Calusa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 289
    • St Petersburg, Florida 10a
    • View Profile
Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« on: May 04, 2023, 01:32:30 PM »
I planted this Sugar Belle 3 months ago and most of the foliage seen in photo #1 below was on it when I planted it. It added a few shoots of growth immediately after planting, but it seems to have gone dormant the past couple of months and it's gotten paler and the sheen is gone from the foliage. Sugar Belle is a vibrant, fast growing citrus. I received it in the mail from a Florida grower and it was little more than a twig with a few leaves. It started sprouting new foliage while it was in that little citrus pot, so I know it can really put on some growth. I keep it watered, fed with liquid Peters with micro nutrients and a good water soluble granular.  Any ideas as to why it's so pale, and dull looking and not growing? Trees are covered in citrus netting.

Sugar Belle


By comparison, here's a Tango tangerine I planted at the same time, 10 feet away from the Sugar Belle. Its foliage is dark green, its robust and put on a few fruits.

TANGO


« Last Edit: May 05, 2023, 09:28:17 AM by Calusa »

brian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3356
    • Pennsylvania (zone 6) w/ heated greenhouse
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2023, 04:25:25 PM »
If you posted pictures here they are not showing up, at least for me.

Calusa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 289
    • St Petersburg, Florida 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2023, 09:29:34 AM »
If you posted pictures here they are not showing up, at least for me.

I added the photos in a different manner so hopefully they are visible. Please let me know. Thanks

Millet

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4798
    • Colorado
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2023, 12:36:30 PM »
How long has the tree been growing i the same container and same medium?

Calusa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 289
    • St Petersburg, Florida 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2023, 03:24:40 PM »
How long has the tree been growing i the same container and same medium?

I planted it 3 months ago and it was growing like a weed in the container. Then I planted it several weeks later in the same spot I had previously had another citrus that got hit by HLM, in typical Florida sandy soil. I added a few quarts of used coffee grounds and mixed it into the sand along with some garden topsoil that has pine bark nuggets rotting away in it. Then I planted this tree in that. Did I maybe over-do it with acidification?

Millet

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4798
    • Colorado
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2023, 12:43:36 PM »
The University of Florida recommends fertilizing 1 year old citrus trees 6 times per year with a 6-6-6 formula fertilizer.  Beginning about 2 weeks after planting, frequent light applications of fertilizer should be made approximately every 6 weeks. In Florida fertilizer should not be applied between October1 and February 1 for the first year or two, especially in regions north of Polk county. 

1rainman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 461
    • Florida
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2023, 05:26:12 PM »
Junk dirt. When you plant almost anything dig a big hole fill it with potting soil. Mix a little of the existing sand into the mix. Or use perlite and peat for potting soil.

Citrus don't like mulch either. It won't kill them but they don't do well with it so those bark chunks are not good either. I will say sugar bell leaves seem to be a little lighter than other citrus though.

Citrus like sandy soil but the Florida dirt being pure sand is junk unless a lot of compost is added.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2023, 05:29:55 PM by 1rainman »

pagnr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 941
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2023, 09:34:58 PM »
I don't think the foliage shows any common nutrient deficiency. I seem to remember the yellow central vein indicates root problems.
Not sure if you over did the acid, but at low low pH, the acid will attack the roots.
Don't know if what you did would drop the pH to that level, seems unlikely.
It may however encourage acid loving microbes or those that degrade organic matter via that process.
Thinking out loud, that may be the problem.
I have seen similar when unusual microbe growth takes over pot mix.
Coffee grounds are fine, but not all at once in my experience. They can lead to a microbe mass or mat, especially on the surface of pots.

1rainman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 461
    • Florida
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2023, 06:44:34 AM »
Never tried coffee grounds on citrus but most plants grow like crazy with them. I'd say the sand and bark is a bigger issue. With sand they will stop growing mostly due to lack of nutrients. I don't know if it's microbes or what but most plants live mulch but mulch slows citrus growth too.

Calusa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 289
    • St Petersburg, Florida 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2023, 10:11:06 AM »
Never tried coffee grounds on citrus but most plants grow like crazy with them. I'd say the sand and bark is a bigger issue. With sand they will stop growing mostly due to lack of nutrients. I don't know if it's microbes or what but most plants live mulch but mulch slows citrus growth too.

I tend to agree with you 1rainman and pagnr. I messed up the planting mix. I am headed to a local nursery in a few minutes to get some real planting mix they prepare onsite, exchange the existing soil with it and replant the tree. Thanks to all!!

Calusa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 289
    • St Petersburg, Florida 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2023, 02:13:08 PM »
Replanting completed. I got a couple of big bags of mushroom/worm castings compost which is really nice and rich looking, and dug out the entire hole about 3' wide removing all of the old soil, coffee grounds and pine bark. dug a "borrow pit" in the yard and mixed everything together. I think this is going to be a game changer. I'll know in a couple of week.

FruitGrower

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
    • South Florida
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2023, 07:16:37 AM »
Replanting completed. I got a couple of big bags of mushroom/worm castings compost which is really nice and rich looking, and dug out the entire hole about 3' wide removing all of the old soil, coffee grounds and pine bark. dug a "borrow pit" in the yard and mixed everything together. I think this is going to be a game changer. I'll know in a couple of week.

Please update us on how this turns out. For me, citrus have done better in sandy mixes than compost, though I am growing in containers. When I last transplanted mine, going from 15 to 35 gallons, I noticed that the Sugar Belle had similar symptoms to yours. It eventually got going with nice new growth but it was notably slower to rebound from the transplant shock than the others (I also root prune). 

Calusa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 289
    • St Petersburg, Florida 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2023, 10:52:15 AM »
Replanting completed. I got a couple of big bags of mushroom/worm castings compost which is really nice and rich looking, and dug out the entire hole about 3' wide removing all of the old soil, coffee grounds and pine bark. dug a "borrow pit" in the yard and mixed everything together. I think this is going to be a game changer. I'll know in a couple of week.

Please update us on how this turns out. For me, citrus have done better in sandy mixes than compost, though I am growing in containers. When I last transplanted mine, going from 15 to 35 gallons, I noticed that the Sugar Belle had similar symptoms to yours. It eventually got going with nice new growth but it was notably slower to rebound from the transplant shock than the others (I also root prune).

Will do. The ratio of the soil used in the replant was about 3:1 mostly yard sand. The roots on the tree looked pretty healthy but I did snap the tap root off a little. Now 2 days later the tree still looks stable and no wilting.

1rainman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 461
    • Florida
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2023, 11:24:22 AM »
Do you have perlite in your compost mix? Admittedly it serves a similar function as sand. But citrus grows well in normal potting soil that is a mix of compost and perlite.

Sand is useful especially when you live in Florida and it's free. But it isn't necessary except on cactus and pineapples they seem to really do better with sand. Almost everything does well in normal potting soil unless it's something that needs alkaline soil. Certain grapes are the only thing that doesn't like the acidity but even a lot of grapes do well in it.

The perlite helps lessen the acidity and get air/drainage.

Calusa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 289
    • St Petersburg, Florida 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2023, 05:43:30 PM »
No Perlite - why would I when I have plenty of sand? Perlite is for potting soil anyway.

1rainman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 461
    • Florida
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2023, 06:18:36 PM »
Perlite is good in any soil mix keeps the soil light but tends to float to the top. Sand is heavier is the only disadvantage of sand but both should help keep the ph closer to neutral and aid drainage.

Seanny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1119
    • Garden Grove, Orange County, California, 10B
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2023, 03:28:40 PM »
Mixing coffee grounds with soil is a bad practice.
The coffee grounds absorb nutrients.
The bacteria that break it down use up the N.
You would need extra N so your tree can get some before the coffee grounds decomposition release N.

Calusa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 289
    • St Petersburg, Florida 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2023, 08:24:54 PM »
Mixing coffee grounds with soil is a bad practice.
The coffee grounds absorb nutrients.
The bacteria that break it down use up the N.
You would need extra N so your tree can get some before the coffee grounds decomposition release N.

That's good information, thanks for sharing! I wondered if I was making a mistake with the coffee, now I know.  :( :(

Seanny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1119
    • Garden Grove, Orange County, California, 10B
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2023, 09:10:38 PM »
If I plant a new tree, I would build a raised bed first.
I would plant the tree with the root crown flush with the top of raised bed.
Fill the raised bed with compost and mulch.
Put pavers on top to keep mulch down.
Fertilize as needed.
Remove pavers then top up with compost and mulch every year.
Put pavers back.

I don’t mix anything with the soil.

Calusa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 289
    • St Petersburg, Florida 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2023, 12:28:40 PM »
Now it's been 3 weeks since I dug the tree up and replanted in the same spot using fresh native soil. I have not seen any change or growth since except that it looks paler than it did. I am going to dig it up again and put it in a pot. Maybe it will respond, and if it does I'll plant it on the side of the house. I just ordered a new Sugar Belle which will get planted in the same spot as the other one.

Seanny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1119
    • Garden Grove, Orange County, California, 10B
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2023, 09:03:25 PM »
Citrus grow fast there?
Here in the Southwest they grow slow.
My tree send out a dozen leaves each shoot.
Then sleep for a few months.
Repeat.
That is it for a year.

Planting a citrus and not seeing any growth after 3 weeks is normal here.

Calusa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 289
    • St Petersburg, Florida 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2023, 09:50:46 PM »
This tree has been in the ground nearly 4 months now. Sugar Belle's are notoriously fast growers, yet it hasn't put on any new growth since it was planted. The tangerine I planted at the ame time has had two flushes of growth in the same timeframe.

Calusa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 289
    • St Petersburg, Florida 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2023, 09:23:43 PM »
I dug it up today, gave the root ball a rinse in a bucket of rinwater and put it in a 5 gallon pot with fresh Miracle Gro cactus/citrus potting soil (with perlite), and sat it in the shade. Maybe this will wake it up and begin growing once again.

Fygee

  • Las Vegas Gardening Community Admin
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 297
    • Las Vegas, NV
    • View Profile
    • Las Vegas Gardening Community
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2023, 06:24:10 PM »
Citrus plants, in my experience, go to sleep for a bit when planted in ground. It's a combination of root shock, and awareness that they're no longer constrained and will focus on root growth instead of top growth.

The severity of the shock will determine how long it's asleep. If it's bad enough that you get leaf drop, you'd pretty much waiting until next season for anything to happen other than mild leaf growth.

Just be careful not to overfeed during this period, as it can actually make the issue worse.

Too much water can also stunt growth, though I'm not sure how much of an issue that would be with how sandy your soil appears to be.
Continuing my journey to disprove those who say "You can't grow that in the desert" since 2013.

1rainman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 461
    • Florida
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2023, 07:34:12 PM »
The only thing special about cactus dirt is it has sand in it, which sand is everywhere in Florida. Usually citrus when planted don't grow much. They put out roots and get established. After a year or two they should grow fairly fast. Though they need compost, fertilizer, water when there's a dry spell. If totally neglected they usually grow slow here unless from seed or a poncirus or sour orange seems a lot healthier and more vigorous than others.

My dad planted sugar bell and two others at the same time. The sugar bell is the largest and the others look diseased already. Sugar bell is healthy though it has lighter leaves than most citrus. So if the others are out growing sugar bell that is weird.

FruitGrower

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
    • South Florida
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2023, 09:46:50 PM »
Citrus plants, in my experience, go to sleep for a bit when planted in ground. It's a combination of root shock, and awareness that they're no longer constrained and will focus on root growth instead of top growth.

The severity of the shock will determine how long it's asleep. If it's bad enough that you get leaf drop, you'd pretty much waiting until next season for anything to happen other than mild leaf growth.

Just be careful not to overfeed during this period, as it can actually make the issue worse.

Too much water can also stunt growth, though I'm not sure how much of an issue that would be with how sandy your soil appears to be.

My experience was similar. Although I didn’t plant in ground, I did up-pot significantly, from 15 to 35 gal. I did that in mid to late January and it didn’t recover till I wrote you in May, more than 3 months later. What’s done is done but next time I would give it a chance to recover. Hope your new one works out!

FruitGrower

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
    • South Florida
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2023, 09:48:32 PM »
Citrus plants, in my experience, go to sleep for a bit when planted in ground. It's a combination of root shock, and awareness that they're no longer constrained and will focus on root growth instead of top growth.

The severity of the shock will determine how long it's asleep. If it's bad enough that you get leaf drop, you'd pretty much waiting until next season for anything to happen other than mild leaf growth.

Just be careful not to overfeed during this period, as it can actually make the issue worse.

Too much water can also stunt growth, though I'm not sure how much of an issue that would be with how sandy your soil appears to be.

FruitGrower

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
    • South Florida
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2023, 09:48:57 PM »
Citrus plants, in my experience, go to sleep for a bit when planted in ground. It's a combination of root shock, and awareness that they're no longer constrained and will focus on root growth instead of top growth.

The severity of the shock will determine how long it's asleep. If it's bad enough that you get leaf drop, you'd pretty much waiting until next season for anything to happen other than mild leaf growth.

Just be careful not to overfeed during this period, as it can actually make the issue worse.

Too much water can also stunt growth, though I'm not sure how much of an issue that would be with how sandy your soil appears to be.

My experience was similar. Although I didn’t plant in ground, I did up-pot significantly, from 15 to 35 gal. I did that in mid to late January and it didn’t recover till I wrote you in May, more than 3 months later. What’s done is done but next time I would give it a chance to recover. Hope your new one works out!

FruitGrower

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
    • South Florida
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2023, 09:49:18 PM »
Delete
« Last Edit: June 01, 2023, 12:00:00 AM by FruitGrower »

Seanny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1119
    • Garden Grove, Orange County, California, 10B
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2023, 11:28:45 PM »
Sounds like we should air-layer Sugar Belle to use as rootstock.

1rainman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 461
    • Florida
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2023, 04:33:58 AM »
Sugar bell is not nearly as vigorous or disease resistant as poncirus, sour orange or a hybrid like swingle.

Calusa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 289
    • St Petersburg, Florida 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2023, 09:33:22 AM »
My replacement Sugar Belle arrived yesterday, and it's going in the ground today. I'll do my best to not screw this one up.  ::)

Galatians522

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1824
    • Florida 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2023, 10:24:43 AM »
Sounds like we should air-layer Sugar Belle to use as rootstock.

There has actually been some research done on that by University of Florida.

Calusa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 289
    • St Petersburg, Florida 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2023, 09:34:45 AM »
FYI, for those who know about citrus rootstocks - my Sugar Belle has a US897 rootstock which I understand produces a dwarf or semi-dwarf tree. It doesn't appear that this rootstock makes the tree more HLB tolerant.

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/HS1308

https://citrusrootstocks.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/US-897.pdf

Calusa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 289
    • St Petersburg, Florida 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2023, 08:03:45 AM »
It's been two weeks since I repotted the tree and it now has new growth shooting out from almost every node. And the foliage is looking nice and green.

So the original planting in the ground, coffee grounds, etc that apparently over-acidified the soil was the problem. I'm gonna let this one live in that 5 gal pot for a year or so then find a spot in the yard for it.

1rainman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 461
    • Florida
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2023, 10:20:31 AM »
Just dig a big hole and fill with potting soil and a little of the native soil when you plant. No bark or mulch. Even when you fertilize it just washes through sand. Sand won't hold nutrients. Then the plant will consume the organic material and it turns back to sand so you have to add compost every year but it helps hold nutrients and water and also root nematodes live in sand. Sand is good for it but the pure sand or nearly pure sand found in Florida sucks for growing things. The secret is massive amounts of compost/potting soil.

Seanny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1119
    • Garden Grove, Orange County, California, 10B
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2023, 06:04:11 PM »
You could grow good trees in pure sand if you follow the rain forest.
Pile up compost and mulch.
Flash flood the top to wash nutrients down.
Don’t do the lame ass drip system unless you do fertigation.

1rainman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 461
    • Florida
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2023, 09:48:32 AM »
Speaking from experience the big hole filled with good dirt works really well but after that I was talking about dumping a little cow compost or something on the top once a year. Florida gets flooding rains in summer. Winter you can drop it or flood it.

Plants will grow like a rocket in Florida with good dirt and regular water and fertilizer but without it they struggle. And partial shade is usually best.

Calusa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 289
    • St Petersburg, Florida 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2023, 10:01:04 PM »
So, as I reported in mid-June my Sugar Belle that I repotted was putting on some very nice, luscious growth and contimued to do so until about 2 weeks ago. Then one side of the tree began to wilt and droop, then a week later the other half wilted. No brown edges or discoloration on the leaves, no insects and nothing obvious to cause this. The tree is now dead. I examined the roots today after I pulled it out of the pot and they look perfectly normal to my eye. Any ideas about this mystery?

Galatians522

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1824
    • Florida 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2023, 11:13:16 PM »
Wilting and death on one side of a plant is a symptom of fusarium. Not sure if citrus gets it or not.

Calusa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 289
    • St Petersburg, Florida 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Why has my Sugar Belle stopped growing?
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2023, 11:15:16 PM »
Wilting and death on one side of a plant is a symptom of fusarium. Not sure if citrus gets it or not.

This seems quite possible after reading this article. Thanks!

A review of Florida citrus blight and its association with soil edaphic factors, nutrition and Fusarium solani

Blight is an important disease of citrus and is the most serious disease of this crop in Florida, a major citrus producer. The disease affects the xylem of the tree and symptoms are those associated with water stress. Interveinal zinc‐deficiency occurs in young leaves on a branch and eventually spreads until the whole tree is affected. Wilt occurs in areas on the tree. Fruits are usually normal in appearance but reduced in size, and sometimes irregular in shape. Blighted trees also have fibrous dry root rot symptoms and Fusarium solani appears to be associated with those symptoms. In Florida there appears to be a relationship between blight occurrence and shallow soils. Studies indicate that soil moisture stress, unfavourable drainage and poor rooting volume unfavourably affect root growth and development in shallow soils. It is thought that the cause of blight is a complex of factors involving soils and their management and Fusarium solani. Ammonium nitrate predisposes roots to infection by F. solani and it is thought that this might happen in the field when ammonium nitrate fertilizers are commonly used. Ammonium forms of nitrogen are required by the fungus for toxin production. Chemical control methods have not proved very successful. It is suggested that effective control might be achieved by planting tolerant rootstocks in well‐drained soils with timely applications of lower rates of fertilizers. Also irrigation measures that reduce soil moisture stress around the roots should be practised.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09670878209370749?journalCode=ttpm19