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Messages - a_Vivaldi

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1
Compost is a soil builder, not a fertilizer. Its NPK values are very low. It's good for making soil healthier, but for hungry plants like citrus, you'd need to apply crazy amounts of compost to give them the fertilizer they need to do their best.

2
Yellow strawberry guava is showing decent hardiness. My potted plants were exposed to 22 F and my in ground plant was exposed to between 14-17 F, and none look like they took damage aside from a few leaves drying.

A potted CORG with the potted guavas hasn't shown any damage whatsoever, which surprised me.





3
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: US-802 citrumelo
« on: January 24, 2025, 03:06:05 PM »
US-1516 looks good too, but it's hard to tell since deer ate almost all the leaves off them for some reason.


The answer to the question: "Will deer eat it?"

Is "Yes."

...but only the US-1516 for some reason. I have two of them, both completely leafless. None of the other citrus have been touched. So strange.

4
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: US-802 citrumelo
« on: January 24, 2025, 01:02:41 PM »
That is a amazing. Did you cover it or heat it in anyway? I need to try one here, do you know where I could get one?

The bottom portion is covered with a single layer of tarp, mostly just for wind protection for the satsuma that's down there. In some of my earlier posts you can find a picture of the whole plant to see what I mean. But the whole top half of this one was completely exposed. It's far to tall, and thorny, for me to try and protect.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen it come up at any of the usual sources. I chanced to get this one as a rootstock for a satsuma I bought from Just Fruits and Exotics and decided to let a waterspout grow. I'm hopping it'll fruit this year, both because no one seems to know what the fruit is even like with this variety, and because then I'll have seeds (which should be mostly or entirely nucellar). And of course I'm hoping to use to pollen, so I need it to bloom for that.

5
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Passion Flower "Iridescence"
« on: January 24, 2025, 11:11:20 AM »
I was doing some web surfing over the weekend and found a nursery selling a passion vine called "Iridescence."

The place is Brushwood Nursery, http://www.gardenvines.com/ in Athens, GA.

"Iridescence" caught my eye because it claimed to be "Tasty-fruited" and it is listed as hardy to zone 7.

I had some communication with the Nursery, and here is additional information they shared:
  • Better tasting fruit than incarnata
  • Being sold for the first time
  • Bred by an individual in Tennessee
  • Exact pedigree is confidential but does include incarnata

I have ordered a vine and will update this thread with my experience over the year.

Anyone else heard of this variety or plan to purchase one?

Here's a post from the breeder describing it.

https://growingfruit.org/t/hardy-passiflora-maypop-too-good-to-be-true/44546/115


6
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: US-802 citrumelo
« on: January 24, 2025, 10:17:45 AM »
Update on the US-802

We've been below freezing for about two days now, maybe a little more, and have had a low of 10 F (6 F in exposed parts of my yard). This photo was taken this morning while temperatures were still well below freezing. Aside from a little winter yellowing, the leaves of US-802 appear unfazed and undamaged. In contrast, Dunstan is showing severe leave curing and will probably defoliate. US-1516 looks good too, but it's hard to tell since deer ate almost all the leaves off them for some reason.

I suspect US-802 is in fact quite hardy.


7
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Clementine Oronules × Citrus ichangensis IVIA
« on: January 24, 2025, 10:11:23 AM »

I plan to document their development here.

I'll be following this one closely, clementine x ichangensis is a cross I've wanted to make. Best of luck!

8
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Clementine Oronules × Citrus ichangensis IVIA
« on: January 24, 2025, 10:08:03 AM »
My clementine x Thomasville seedlings appear to be completely or nearly completely zygotic, but honestly it's a bit early to say for sure.

I'll edit in some photos.
















9
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Early Branching in C-35 Citrange
« on: January 24, 2025, 10:02:49 AM »

C-35 Early Brancher 2







I've seen similar swollen stems in some US-852 seedlings. All were very slow growers, so I'm guessing it might be an infection or a genetic abnormality.

10
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Cold weather
« on: January 24, 2025, 10:00:42 AM »
They just revised us down from 14 to 12.

I decided to cover a few more plants. It might not get above freezing for another day or so.

Ended up getting 10 F, with an exposed thermometer reading 6 F.

We should get above freezing tomorrow. It's been in the 20s more of today.

Still haven't gotten above freezing in my back yard where most of the citrus are. Hoping for some warmth tomorrow so I can uncover and survey the damage.

11
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Cold weather
« on: January 23, 2025, 03:04:06 PM »
They just revised us down from 14 to 12.

I decided to cover a few more plants. It might not get above freezing for another day or so.

Ended up getting 10 F, with an exposed thermometer reading 6 F.

We should get above freezing tomorrow. It's been in the 20s more of today.

12
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Cold weather
« on: January 22, 2025, 07:09:29 PM »
They just revised us down from 14 to 12.

I decided to cover a few more plants. It might not get above freezing for another day or so.

13
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Cold weather
« on: January 21, 2025, 10:16:56 PM »
Wow, we're looking at 17°F as our low, although I typically read a few degrees lower out in the field.

Here it's a forecast low of 21 F tonight, I suspect I'll see a degree or so colder than that. Currently have about a half inch of snow, expect to get about 3 inches tonight. Tomorrow will just barely hit 32 F during the day then drop to 14 F at night, which will almost certainly be our coldest night of the year.

14
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Hong Kong kumquat
« on: January 20, 2025, 06:03:00 PM »
Very good.

I had a good deal more seeds, but the day they arrived in the mail we had a really hard freeze. Many of the seeds were already starting to germinate and didn't take that well.

15
Cold Hardy Citrus / Hong Kong kumquat
« on: January 18, 2025, 04:40:32 PM »
I'm going to create a dedicated topic for this one since it's been mentioned a few times in other posts.

I had four seeds recently germinate and can confirm that it's generally monoembryonic but of those four one was polyembryonic.

16
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: January 13, 2025, 08:13:18 AM »
Yeah, there's Swingle trifoliate, which is a variety of trifoliate, and then there's Swingle citrumelo, which most people just call Swingle.

Dunstan can sometimes have similar confusing name mix ups, Rubidoux is even worse.

17
Ten years later....

I'd like to bump this topic and see what people's updated records are for cold hardy Eugenias and related plants.

Currently, I have some CORG outdoors that seem to be handling mid-twenties F without issue. Some Psidium cattleianum var lucidum out there as well that don't appear to be taking any damage. Next winter I'll test the Psidium under more exposed conditions to see if an in ground Psidium cattleianum var lucidum can survive mid-to-upper teens (assuming we get those temperatures, we usually do), and I may also test Psidium robustom and Psidium longipetiolatum, though honestly I'll probably wait until next year with those two.

Myrcianthes pungens will go outside in ground as well. I have high hopes for that one. Feijoa have been in ground for several years and are completely hardy in zone 8, zero issues.

In later years I'd like to test out Psidium salutare (from Cordoba province if possible, but that'll be hard to find), Eugenia uniflora var. Dasyblasta and perhaps some of the other Eugenias.

18
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Fukushu X PT seed
« on: January 04, 2025, 12:55:00 PM »
Hong Kong kumquat is considerably more hardy than other varieties, I know of an established tree that's survived briefly negative temperatures.

It's purely an ornamental unfortunately, I've never seen anyone claim they liked the fruit. It's basically berry sized and is all seed and skin with almost no flesh or juice.

Of the edible varieties I've heard Marumi is the hardiest by a small margin. If you include hybrids then Thomasville is the hardiest edible variety to the best of my knowledge (though itself still slightly less hardy than Hong Kong kumquat).

19
I've seen research that var lucidum produces apomitic seed, so it might not work as the mother. It produces lots of pollen though so it should be a good male parent.

I'm growing out Psidium robustum and longipetiolatum and plan on pollinating then with P. cattleyanum var lucidum and with each other. I think I'm about two years away from the first cross though as only my var lucidum are large enough to flower and fruit.

There is some weirdness with ploidy in the Psidium genus, but that's not always a 100% barrier.

20
I don't know that any seedling would necessarily be hardier, but for sure the average seedling from Meyer x Poncirus Plus would be hardier than the average seedling from a normal lemon x trifoliate.

And of course the F2 generation you'd see some very significant differences, some more, some less.

21
yeah seems 7b is too generous

Agreed, though maybe possible if you got very lucky. An F2 from Meyer x Morton very much could though (Meyer as the mother).

Meyer x trifoliate would surely be hardy to 7b, or at least the majority of such seedlings would be I'd expect. If Poncirus Plus blooms for me this spring I'll be attempting that cross among a few others (among them Ichang Papeda x Poncirus Plus).

22
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Sugarbelle fruit review?
« on: December 17, 2024, 03:38:00 PM »
I've been having a lot of Sugarbelle recently after ordering a box of them.

Pros:
Very pretty
Excellent flavor, like minneola
Fairly easy to peel, especially at the top
Stores well

Cons:
Fairly sour, especially early on
A bit seedy
The bottoms were sometimes dried out or poorly developed, I'm guessing the trees are pretty young, overcropped a bit, and we had some pretty bad droughts this year to boot, which all contribute to issues like that. Still, though, Owari from the same source are nice and juicy.

Overall, I really like them. A few things could be better, especially sweetness, but the flavor is just tops.

23
Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Hong Kong kumquat seeds
« on: December 14, 2024, 08:23:37 PM »
Oh, I'd love to jump in on this one! Do you know if these are the diploid or tetraploid ones?

24

Those sound like very interesting crosses too. I actually was gifted scionwood from a mature Clementine x Thomasville but I know nothing about it or its fruit. One of my micro-grafts of this combo has mixed foliage types. Have you tried Marumi kumquat? Is it fairly zygotic? Mine hasn't set fruit yet but I'm very interested in it.

Oh, I'll be very curious to know how that one turns out for you, I'll have an idea of what mine might be like in a few years. I'm hoping at least some of mine inherit the precociousness of Thomasville. With Thomasville being mostly nucellar, but with one fully zygotic parent (I assume, given the kumquat side), my guess is that half of the clementine x Thomasville crosses will be zygotic. If I'm really, really lucky, some of those zygotic ones will also be fairly sweet.

The only Marumi I've tried were under ripe fruit set during a summer flush. Even then, they were nice, if sour and underdeveloped. I'm expecting it to be zygotic but I don't know for sure if it will be.

Most of these crosses aren't going to be sufficiently hardy even in my warmer zone. My expectation is on the F2 generation or on a backcross they'll start to have decent hardiness.

25

Yes, I have lots of ideas for future crosses, and I think a Morton x Bishop cross could be very good. Here's a small list of some crosses I may attempt next season:
Calamondin x Citrandarin (942, 1279, Bishop)
Kumquat x Citrandarin
Kumquat x Tai Tri
Clem-yuz x Citrandarin (942, 1279, Bishop)
Yuzu x Poncirus
Yuzu + Trifoliate (Carolina Chimera)
Yuzu x Tai Tri
Ichang Papeda x Poncirus
Ichang Papeda x Tai Tri
Ichang Papeda x Citrandarin (942, 1279, Bishop)
Your crosses sound very interesting, I'm looking forward to seeing them in the future!

Very cool!

I just collected seed from a Thomasville x clementine cross, waiting for germination on them. I don't think they'll be any more hardy than a satsuma, but they're the only cross I made that didn't drop when it failed to rain for the entire month of June...

My own 1279 graft looks to have a delayed failure of some kind so the crosses I was planning with it are going to have to wait. The same thing happened to the Bishop citradarin I had, but none of my other grafts, so something weird is going on with those two. In the meantime I'll likely be able to try some of:

Meyer lemon x Ichang papeda
Meyer lemon x Dunstan
Meyer lemon x Poncirus+
Ichang papeda x Ichang lemon (if the latter blooms, which it might)
Clementine x Dunstan
Clementine x US-802 (looks like it might bloom this spring)
Clementine x Poncirus+
Marumi x Dunstan
Marumi x Ichang papeda
Marumi x US-802 (if it blooms)
Marumi x Thomasville

Not sure these are the exact crosses I'll make, depends on bloom times and such, but that's the general idea. Bloomsweet, Ten Degree Tangerine, Poorman Orange, US-1516, US-852, and Taiwanica are all in the works to make crosses with as well, but I don't think they'll bloom this spring. A few others are on the list but won't be happening any time soon. I might pick up a 1279 and a Bishop citandarin from you if/when you offer them for sale again.

I've considered getting Excaliber Red Lime, SugarBelle (not sure about patents on that one though), Kiyomi, Cara Cara (pollen could be an issue though...) Eremo x Shek, Kishu, Ujikitsu, and Mineola for breeding with, but I doubt I ever actually will. If my satsumas ever actually produce pollen I'll be sure to try and mix them in with something, but again, I don't know if that'll ever actually happen.

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