Author Topic: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?  (Read 2636 times)

simon_grow

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First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« on: September 10, 2020, 11:15:40 PM »
My friend and I really love the taste profile of Kesar. We have mostly been purchasing India grown Kesars from the Indian Supermarkets and from online sources like MangoZz.com for the last 10 years or so. We really enjoy the sweet taste combined with the complex Indian resinous flavor that I often describe as Piney.

When we discovered that there was a Jumbo version of the Kesar, we did everything we could to acquire scions from this selection. We contacted everyone that claimed to have the real Jumbo Kesar and put multiple grafts onto multiple trees to test each acquisition. Some of the scions didnít produce fruit that were jumbo but it could be due to the scions/trees being too young.

We also found that some regular Kesar scions produced fruit that were larger but not Jumbo sized.

Some of the supposed Jumbo Kesar scions have been growing well for several years now and we finally got a proven Jumbo Kesar fruit grown in SoCal.

This fruit is over 7 inches long and weighs in at over 1 lbs 8 oz. it is larger than a good sized Valencia Pride.

I did not grow this, it is from my friends tree. He wishes to remain anonymous. He fertilizes his trees really well and all his trees are very well taken care of. He did not sample this fruit yet and we are not expecting too much from this fruit because itís the first Jumbo fruit from this graft.



Simon

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2020, 11:19:37 PM »
Thatís amazing!

behlgarden

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2020, 11:34:07 PM »
Does not look legit at all. Kesar jumbo kesar is only slightly bigger than regular kesar, and won't get this size.

Look real one here, pic from India.
https://images.app.goo.gl/dRuFMyakkPFjZH3f6
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 11:37:51 PM by behlgarden »

JF

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2020, 11:47:40 PM »
Does not look legit at all. Kesar jumbo kesar is only slightly bigger than regular kesar, and won't get this size.

Look real one here, pic from India.
https://images.app.goo.gl/dRuFMyakkPFjZH3f6

You are absolute right Behl, this looks like our friendís fake Valencia Pride . he must have took wood from that tree and mislabeled it and rebrand as jumbo kesar. Behl is from Punjab and has more knowledge about Indian mango than anyone I know

simon_grow

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2020, 12:00:36 AM »
We shall see. My friend crunched up the leaves from this Jumbo Kesar and he said it smells just like the regular Kesar which he is also growing. The scions also came from an extremely reputable source. Iíll ask my friend for an update when he cuts open the fruit.

Simon
« Last Edit: September 11, 2020, 12:03:26 AM by simon_grow »

simon_grow

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2020, 12:09:01 AM »
Check out this video for Jumbo Kesar. In any case, we should find out if this is really a Jumbo Kesar when my friend cuts it open. We should find out in about 1 week.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D2-bJ_0bh1E

Simon

wslau

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2020, 02:57:48 AM »
Simon,
Will be interested too as to how well the jumbo kesar is.  I am assuming though that it will be extremely  fibrous near the seed like regular kesar (imported from India), making it less enjoyable in eating the ďmeatĒ around the seed.  For this reason, I havenít really focused too much on kesar or jumbo kesar,  but on other varieties like Son Pari, which I felt were on par with the flavor profile of kesar, but without the fibrous area near the seed.  Maybe a CA grown jumbo kesar wonít have that much fiber around the seed due to SoCal soil/fertilizer conditions.  Waiting to hear your friendís report.
Warren

murahilin

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2020, 08:18:22 AM »
We shall see. My friend crunched up the leaves from this Jumbo Kesar and he said it smells just like the regular Kesar which he is also growing. The scions also came from an extremely reputable source. Iíll ask my friend for an update when he cuts open the fruit.

Simon

When I google Jumbo Kesar, the pics of the fruit look very similar to what your friend has grown. Looks promising. Keep us posted.

Squam256

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2020, 10:07:39 AM »
We shall see. My friend crunched up the leaves from this Jumbo Kesar and he said it smells just like the regular Kesar which he is also growing. The scions also came from an extremely reputable source. Iíll ask my friend for an update when he cuts open the fruit.

Simon

When I google Jumbo Kesar, the pics of the fruit look very similar to what your friend has grown. Looks promising. Keep us posted.

It definitely looks more like Jumbo Kesar than most of the Kesar fruit Iíve seen grown in the US. The Jumbo has a more pronounced hook on the bottom as the fruit in the photo does compared to regular Kesar.


behlgarden

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2020, 01:44:31 PM »
I disagree with comments over shape changing. mangoes do not change shape this dramatic, yes, size and flavor can varry. I sent this picture to Indian curator who is a good friend of mine in Gujrat, birth place of Kesar and Jumbo kesar, and he confirmed the picture to be not Jumbo Kesar. Jumbo kesar is identical to kesar with 10-25% bigger size. Kesars are small-medium sized and dont have curved shape.  The link above shows actual jumbo kesar picture from Indian site that sells these mangoes.

simon_grow

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2020, 02:05:35 PM »
Time will tell. This mango is still pretty green but it should ripen in 9 days or less depending on temperature.

Behlgarden, shape of mangos can be very different depending on many factors including incomplete or partial pollination which may cause nubbin production which forms smaller, rounder fruit, often with aborted seeds.

My Maha produced two distinctly shaped fruit. One is sigmoidal and the other is more straight without the bend.

I also currently have two distinctly shaped Lemon Zests hanging on my tree which I have posted about before.

Behl, if you donít believe that mangos can have different morphological characteristics, I will post some pictures of my fruits. 

Simon

simon_grow

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2020, 02:25:07 PM »
I disagree with comments over shape changing. mangoes do not change shape this dramatic, yes, size and flavor can varry. I sent this picture to Indian curator who is a good friend of mine in Gujrat, birth place of Kesar and Jumbo kesar, and he confirmed the picture to be not Jumbo Kesar. Jumbo kesar is identical to kesar with 10-25% bigger size. Kesars are small-medium sized and dont have curved shape.  The link above shows actual jumbo kesar picture from Indian site that sells these mangoes.

Hey Behl, here are some pictures of two panicles of Lemon Zest fruits on the same tree. The panicles bloomed at the same time yet the shape and other morphological characteristics are very different.

These first two pictures show the much shorter, rounder fruit. The beak is not as prominent and this close up shows that the lenticils are significantly darker. Even the feel/texture of the skin of the fruit is different. These smaller, rounder fruit have a rough, pebbly feel and the full sized fruit are smooth




These next three pictures show the normal sized and shaped Lemon Zest fruit. They are about two to three times the mass of the smaller fruit and you can obviously see the significant difference in shape.  Notice the prominent beak on these normal sized/shaped fruit.






This should be proof enough about shape changing.

Watering and fertilization can have a significant affect on the size of mangos and other fruit. This was the only fruit from this graft which may also have contributed to the giant size. In any case, my friend is very familiar with the Kesar variety so he should know immediately upon first bite. Giant fruit sometimes tastes a bit watered down but it should still be clearly evident if itís a Jumbo Kesar or not.

Simon

simon_grow

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2020, 02:37:28 PM »
Behl, in addition to what I just posted, the video I posted above Mentions that the Jumbo Kesar is about double the size of the regulars Kesar, thatís 100%. See video around 1:45-3:00. The guy in the video planted out many acres of these Jumbo Kesar( and regular Kesar) and I donít doubt your curator friend is an expert on Kesar but this guy in the video literally planted out acres upon acres of this special selection and the proof is in the pudding. This should disprove the 10-25% bigger hypothesis. In the video I posted, the grower also stated the fruit were not ripe yet and had about three weeks of growing left.

Simon

behlgarden

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2020, 06:41:23 PM »
Behl, in addition to what I just posted, the video I posted above Mentions that the Jumbo Kesar is about double the size of the regulars Kesar, thatís 100%. See video around 1:45-3:00. The guy in the video planted out many acres of these Jumbo Kesar( and regular Kesar) and I donít doubt your curator friend is an expert on Kesar but this guy in the video literally planted out acres upon acres of this special selection and the proof is in the pudding. This should disprove the 10-25% bigger hypothesis. In the video I posted, the grower also stated the fruit were not ripe yet and had about three weeks of growing left.

Simon

Simon, I am spreading the factual information that comes right from the source in India and not from Dominican Republic. Jumbo Kesars are no way double the size of regular kesar, not going to argue your beliefs or your friends findings.

roblack

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2020, 07:22:55 PM »
me thinks there be more than one "jumbo kesar"

the original, and perhaps at least one other, very good in its own right, imposter

simon_grow

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2020, 08:07:43 PM »
Behl, if you are just looking for an increase in size of 10-25%, that can be accomplished by supplementing with algae and yeast extract. Please see table 4 in this article.

https://scihub.org/ABJNA/PDF/2010/3/1-3-421-429.pdf

Here is a picture of a Jumbo Kesar from a festival in India.


Simon

behlgarden

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2020, 11:04:01 AM »
Simon, so what's the follow-up to this post?  what did your friend say about the fruit? no pics?

simon_grow

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2020, 12:25:09 PM »
My friend is traveling out of state so he packed the mango in his luggage to eat it when itís perfectly ripe. It should be ripe very soon. Iíll update as soon as he sends me the information.

Simon

simon_grow

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2020, 12:27:30 PM »
Here is how it last looked when my friend updated me



Simon

roblack

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2020, 02:25:09 PM »
lmao. mango of interest is now in transit.

Please keep us posted Simon!

Might flavor and texture be effected or even enhanced by post picking travel stress? jk

 

behlgarden

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2020, 04:36:15 PM »
if I think which friend you are talking about, I believe its his Valencia Pride.

Look at the similarities. As Warren pointed out above, any kesar that has red color on shoulders is not kesar. there are fakes in India too. Kesar DOES NOT get red color on shoulder. Kesar has very prominent pointed beak at very bottom, I dont see it at all.



« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 04:55:35 PM by behlgarden »

Squam256

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2020, 04:44:51 PM »
if I think which friend you are talking about, I believe its his Valencia Pride.

Look at the similarities. As Warren pointed out above, any kesar that has red color on shoulders is not kesar. there are fakes in India too. Kesar DOES NOT get red color on shoulder.




Kesar can definitely get some red blush on the shoulder.

behlgarden

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2020, 04:57:52 PM »
if I think which friend you are talking about, I believe its his Valencia Pride.

Look at the similarities. As Warren pointed out above, any kesar that has red color on shoulders is not kesar. there are fakes in India too. Kesar DOES NOT get red color on shoulder.




Kesar can definitely get some red blush on the shoulder.

not the real ones from India. Even at birthplace of Kesar folks started spreading fakes, now real ones are called Gir Kesar. No red blushing.

JF

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2020, 04:59:41 PM »
if I think which friend you are talking about, I believe its his Valencia Pride.

Look at the similarities. As Warren pointed out above, any kesar that has red color on shoulders is not kesar. there are fakes in India too. Kesar DOES NOT get red color on shoulder.




If we are talking about the same friend I know heís none stop grafting. He graft so much he doesnít know what heís grafting or labels it.

Squam256

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2020, 07:10:08 PM »
if I think which friend you are talking about, I believe its his Valencia Pride.

Look at the similarities. As Warren pointed out above, any kesar that has red color on shoulders is not kesar. there are fakes in India too. Kesar DOES NOT get red color on shoulder.




Kesar can definitely get some red blush on the shoulder.

not the real ones from India. Even at birthplace of Kesar folks started spreading fakes, now real ones are called Gir Kesar. No red blushing.

a mango can take on different blush color when grown in a completely different climate and soil.

Iím very confident that ďrealĒ Kesar can get some red blush. Itís not consistent and depends on sun exposure.

simon_grow

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2020, 10:24:41 PM »
Sorry everyone but big disappointment. This mango is not a true Jumbo Kesar. It was just a VP. My friend did get reliable scions from a reputable source but he probably got them mixed up with all his trees. The search continues. We still have several Jumbo Kesar trees growing so hopefully we will eventually get a proven Jumbo Kesar here soon.

Simon

behlgarden

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2020, 04:57:39 PM »
Sorry everyone but big disappointment. This mango is not a true Jumbo Kesar. It was just a VP. My friend did get reliable scions from a reputable source but he probably got them mixed up with all his trees. The search continues. We still have several Jumbo Kesar trees growing so hopefully we will eventually get a proven Jumbo Kesar here soon.

Simon

Disappointed to hear that it wasn't Jumbo, he probably has grafts allover and maybfruit in the future.

simon_grow

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2020, 11:38:35 PM »
Yes, I agree. Iím sure he has the real scions as he revealed his source to me but it is a huge issue to have unlabeled or misslabeled grafts. One of the issues with multigraft trees. Hopefully the true Jumbo will fruit next year.

Simon

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Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2020, 01:52:15 AM »
What a bummer, but I knew this was our friend's VP the minute I saw it. Multigrafted trees are a hassle, its hard to match varieties that preform equally w respect to new growth. Our friend has dozens of mango trees that are mostly multigrafted. Unless you stay on top of it an label all grafts you wont be able to keep up and that's precisely what happen in this case. He has multiple Jumbo Kesar trees and grafts from multiple sources, I'm sure he'll fruit a Jumbo kesar one day.

 

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