Author Topic: Land purchasing and search discussion  (Read 6375 times)

Finca Loco

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Re: Land purchasing and search discussion
« Reply #50 on: August 06, 2021, 09:19:04 AM »
a home well is not a irrigation well

What's the difference? Diameter? I'm building a house in Florida and want to be set up for irrigating a couple acres.

i am also interested in the difference between a home well and irrigation well.

There are legal/permitting differences, then there are the engineering/practical differences. Starting with the latter, your home uses maybe 4-5 gallons per minute(gpm), with everything running. I'm irrigating 1 acre, 6 inches per month, which is about 30 min at 150 gpm, every day. A 4 inch well is going to dry up at that consumption rate. You can go bigger diameter or deeper with the well, both are more expensive. In S Fl. water table is very shallow. So you can cheaply dig a pond and pump out of that, or what Im doing, dig a small "pond" more like 5ft x 5ft hole as deep as I can, backfill with porous material, install the 4 inch well through the porous material. You will effectively have a well with a diameter 5ft x 5ft at the top. This can be permitted, just like a normal well. Downside is contamination much easier. I wouldn't drink out of this well if I was in an area with extensive conventional ag, but my area is surrounded by 5 acre homesteads. Regardless, you need to treat your drinking water anyway, at least softening, iron and sulfur are common contaminants, not toxic to health, more like taste/odor issues.

Water should not be stopping you in S. Florida. We have unlimited water 3-10 feet right under your feet. Well drillers are all over the place and waiting for your call. I work in a related industry, if you need a well driller quick and cheap, send me a PM.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 09:30:00 AM by Finca Loco »

nattyfroootz

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Re: Land purchasing and search discussion
« Reply #51 on: August 06, 2021, 10:28:53 AM »
Do you guys have to have holding tanks for water? By code in SC county, (maybe california?) we need 10,000 gallons of water in tanks. The well has to produce above 3gpm.  I'll probably be adding more water storage tanks as my well pump is about 120' below where my holding tanks are.  I pump up and let gravity help me water down. 
Grow cooler fruits

www.wildlandsplants.com

pineislander

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Re: Land purchasing and search discussion
« Reply #52 on: August 06, 2021, 12:23:28 PM »
Do you guys have to have holding tanks for water? By code in SC county, (maybe california?) we need 10,000 gallons of water in tanks. The well has to produce above 3gpm.  I'll probably be adding more water storage tanks as my well pump is about 120' below where my holding tanks are.  I pump up and let gravity help me water down.
We usually 'store' the water underground since the water table is high. I have a 2 inch 20 ft shallow well that produces 40 gal/min using a gasoline engine 2 inch "trash" pump. I also have a drinking water well that's 60 feet with a 15 gal/min pump. Right now and usually all summer no irrigation needed here is what I look like today:



Seanny

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Re: Land purchasing and search discussion
« Reply #53 on: August 06, 2021, 12:43:34 PM »
Beautiful back yard.
I would grow plants and fish.

pineislander

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Re: Land purchasing and search discussion
« Reply #54 on: August 06, 2021, 05:10:02 PM »
Beautiful back yard.
I would grow plants and fish.
Well, that's my front yard! Being a fruit tree grower I had a choice of whether to plant an acre of fruit trees this summer, or landscape my front yard. Guess which got done first? That's not the way it ordinarily looks, but we got six inches rain this week on top of nearly saturated conditions. Usually the yard is pretty dry in winter, it's like the Sahara, but with the water table six feet down.

vall

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Re: Land purchasing and search discussion
« Reply #55 on: August 09, 2021, 03:54:26 PM »
Thanks guys. I do want my well(s) to be permitted so I might ask for more details when I get there. I'm buying 5 acres on a former citrus grove in Vero Beach and I close at the end of the month.
- Val

Finca Loco

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Re: Land purchasing and search discussion
« Reply #56 on: August 09, 2021, 08:43:35 PM »
Sounds like quite a few of us going through this process. I am speaking with a water well driller tomorrow to get more specifics on prices and sizing for my well and pump, will keep you all updated.

LeahTerry

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Re: Land purchasing and search discussion
« Reply #57 on: October 15, 2021, 07:26:55 AM »
spammer
« Last Edit: July 21, 2022, 08:56:58 AM by JakeFruit »

pineislander

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Re: Land purchasing and search discussion
« Reply #58 on: October 15, 2021, 09:44:30 AM »
My best sugestion is to get in touch with a local grower w/10 years experience of success in an area and get advice.
There is always room for improvement but don't expect to "reinvent the wheel" unless you enjoy getting hard lessons.

Orkine

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Re: Land purchasing and search discussion
« Reply #59 on: October 15, 2021, 09:47:26 AM »
Thanks guys. I do want my well(s) to be permitted so I might ask for more details when I get there. I'm buying 5 acres on a former citrus grove in Vero Beach and I close at the end of the month.
Chances are your property has (or the entire rove if yours is carved from a larger farm) a water use permit from the SFWMD for groundwater use.  It may be possible to secure the portion of the allocation proportional to your acreage.
Check out the sfwmd.gov page and look at the e-permiting feature if will show you what is in place.
The also have a user friendly geospatial database that includes information on water facilities and permits.

This link should get you to the map tool
https://apps.sfwmd.gov/WAB/SFWMDMapping/index.html

You will need to turn on the permit layer
TO do this,
1) Select the "Layer List"  It is the second button in the row of button at the bottom of your screen, the green one
2) Click in the check box next to the "Consumptive use permit"  (third from the bottom - you may need to scroll down the list)

If you are familiar with these tools, items show up as you zoom in and the permit information is very dense, it is best viewed as you zoom into your project area.

Water rights in Florida is very unique.  It is not like in California or the rest of the country.  No one owns water rights in Florida (other than the Indian tribes, these are independent nations in their own right and have their own laws rules and regulations)
For the rest of us, water is a public asset the rights to which are determined by the board of 5 water management districts.  There are very formal rules for making those determinations.  The board are not elected board (an attempt to make water right not a political issue), but appointed by the governor for 4 year terms, staggered so that there is always experience on the board.  They have responsibility for developing water resources not just allocating it, they plan for 20 years into the future (and update the plans every 5 years extending the look so that they are always anticipating needs 20 years out) and develop resources so that users can get water up to and during drought of a 1 in 10 year severity. They also have water quality, restoration and flood control responsibilities.
Back to water rights, no one owns water.  You need to justify that your need is a beneficial use of water and you meet the appropriate tests (including avoiding impact to wetlands or existing legal users) and you get an allocation.  Your permit may have a 5 year duration after which you renew and may be as long as 20 years (usually for public water supply utilities who need the longer assurance of water for bonding purposes and capital investments). 
If this is not too boring for you and want to learn some more, I will be glad to point you to resources on the web sites of the SFWMD which is where many of you have indicated interest in moving to.




« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 10:17:41 AM by Orkine »

driftwood

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Re: Land purchasing and search discussion
« Reply #60 on: October 15, 2021, 11:51:30 AM »
Thanks guys. I do want my well(s) to be permitted so I might ask for more details when I get there. I'm buying 5 acres on a former citrus grove in Vero Beach and I close at the end of the month.
Chances are your property has (or the entire rove if yours is carved from a larger farm) a water use permit from the SFWMD for groundwater use.  It may be possible to secure the portion of the allocation proportional to your acreage.
Check out the sfwmd.gov page and look at the e-permiting feature if will show you what is in place.
The also have a user friendly geospatial database that includes information on water facilities and permits.

This link should get you to the map tool
https://apps.sfwmd.gov/WAB/SFWMDMapping/index.html

You will need to turn on the permit layer
TO do this,
1) Select the "Layer List"  It is the second button in the row of button at the bottom of your screen, the green one
2) Click in the check box next to the "Consumptive use permit"  (third from the bottom - you may need to scroll down the list)

If you are familiar with these tools, items show up as you zoom in and the permit information is very dense, it is best viewed as you zoom into your project area.

Water rights in Florida is very unique.  It is not like in California or the rest of the country.  No one owns water rights in Florida (other than the Indian tribes, these are independent nations in their own right and have their own laws rules and regulations)
For the rest of us, water is a public asset the rights to which are determined by the board of 5 water management districts.  There are very formal rules for making those determinations.  The board are not elected board (an attempt to make water right not a political issue), but appointed by the governor for 4 year terms, staggered so that there is always experience on the board.  They have responsibility for developing water resources not just allocating it, they plan for 20 years into the future (and update the plans every 5 years extending the look so that they are always anticipating needs 20 years out) and develop resources so that users can get water up to and during drought of a 1 in 10 year severity. They also have water quality, restoration and flood control responsibilities.
Back to water rights, no one owns water.  You need to justify that your need is a beneficial use of water and you meet the appropriate tests (including avoiding impact to wetlands or existing legal users) and you get an allocation.  Your permit may have a 5 year duration after which you renew and may be as long as 20 years (usually for public water supply utilities who need the longer assurance of water for bonding purposes and capital investments). 
If this is not too boring for you and want to learn some more, I will be glad to point you to resources on the web sites of the SFWMD which is where many of you have indicated interest in moving to.

Good to know Orkine

I am used to water rights laws in other states, I didnt know thats how it worked!

vall

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Re: Land purchasing and search discussion
« Reply #61 on: October 15, 2021, 02:14:29 PM »
This link should get you to the map tool
https://apps.sfwmd.gov/WAB/SFWMDMapping/index.html


Thanks. That's the wrong district, but I found the correct one. There is one giant generic permit for Vero Beach, and a whole lot of wells around me since we don't have city water pipes. Looking at the completed permits, now I have an idea how deep the well will be.
- Val

Orkine

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Re: Land purchasing and search discussion
« Reply #62 on: October 15, 2021, 07:26:10 PM »
My bad, you are correct, Vero Beach is in SJRWMD, one county too far north of SFWMD.

All the water management districts are guided by the same statutes.  The procedures and how they have implemented the rules have evolved with slight differences to suite the needs of the regions they serve.

Glad you found the SJRWMD page.  They also use e-permitting and much of my statement (not all) apply.

Good luck.
 

 

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