Cacao Growers, zone pushing and varietals

[Lumi-Ukko]

I can’t imagine why you would add perlite and pumice. I have walked around farms in the Yucatán and the places I saw drain too well. There aren’t any rivers or creeks. Do you have running water near you?   
I have a commercial cacao farm in Costa Rica and we plant cacao directly in a clay loam soil without any fancy amendments. Our soil is about 5.8 in the cacao area and we don’t even add calcium. We lightly shade with nitrogen fixers and do lots of natural mulching.
Suerte!
Peter

As I mentioned, the soil up here in the NW corner does have a tendency to 'clay-up' after a while, which tends to be detrimental to many of my trees and plants (I think this is the broken down lime, which tends to cement up a bit).  This is the additional alkaline problem we deal with.  We also get a high water table in wet season, sometimes as close as 1 to 2m from the surface) which limits drainage so have been wanting to play it on the safe side.

From what you have kindly shared is that the cacao isn't too fussy about wet soils, so that's a big bonus.

On a different topic, it appears you have a lot of experience with Salak (Salacca Zalacca). I'm attempting it up here as an understory tree, and so far have 5 healthy looking seedlings up to approx 1 foot in height, and hoping I have at least one from either gender.  I'm probably the only individual in the local area with Salak, so there's probably a reason behind that. Have searched and read your posts extensively and found them very useful.

[Finca La Isla]

Salak is a good idea I think. So you have two understory crops. What will you grow above them?
My wife often says that what I do can’t be called a food forest, it’s a mixed orchard since I don’t have proper forest levels. With cacao and salak in the understory you might have avocado or durian or, I don’t know to partially shade the understory and have a true food forest.
Saludos

[Lumi-Ukko]

Salak is a good idea I think. So you have two understory crops. What will you grow above them?
My wife often says that what I do can’t be called a food forest, it’s a mixed orchard since I don’t have proper forest levels. With cacao and salak in the understory you might have avocado or durian or, I don’t know to partially shade the understory and have a true food forest.
Saludos

The whole food forest idea is something I'm striving for. I have a dislike for purely ornamental trees when I could be growing food. As it is, I'm sort of working my way down from the canopy, which mostly already exists. In the area I'm currently concentrating on I have already a 20m+ tall ceiba which my wife's late father planted and all the family pets and his ashes are scattered under, so that tree has to stay. Besides that in the same area, I have Mamey, Black Sapote, Cherimoya, Saramuyo, which are all mature.

So far, in this area, I've put in some Coffee Robusta (more for fun than anything else), the cacao, several vanilla vines, monstera, but looking for more fruiting options that tolerate part/dappled shade during the middle day.

That same area but more out from under the canopy there's a number of mature citrus (bitter orange, limon, camera), bananas,  and several recently planted guava varieties. But, of course these all are much smaller than the aforementioned canopy trees.

I've attached an image of the ceiba but it's kind of hard to get everything in the picture or for the whole canopy area not to be obscured by other trees.

I suppose I should've started a new thread as this has wildly deviated from the original comment!

[Finca La Isla]

Looks pretty nice. Your area should be great for sapodilla and various annonas. You might try some garcinias in dappled shade, stuff like lemon drop and achachariu, Luc’s.
The ceiba may simply emerge so much that a lot of light could be allowed in. Does anyone grow Ramon around there?
Peter

[Lumi-Ukko]

Indeed, the area to the left (West) lets in direct afternoon light for 2 or 3 hours. To the right and out of picture (you can just make out the Mamey) is where the various mature annona and sapodillas are and this is much more shaded with just dappled sunlight all day.

I have actually had my eyes on Lemon Drop and achachairu, plus purple mangosteen (which is harder to get my hands on than you would believe). I've not yet found a seller for Luc's but I'll keep looking.

As for Ramon, there's many of them in this part of the world. A friend of mine has a beautiful mature one in his garden but they are one of the few trees that truly thrive and they can grow to quite the size.

[Finca La Isla]

Ramón is called ojoche in CR and there is interest in it as a food security answer. People ask me about it but nobody I know of still processes it here. In the Peten of Guatemala I did run into it being used to make a flour.
We are going to have a very good fruit season around September. You could get all the mangosteen seeds you could possibly want!!
Peter

[Lumi-Ukko]

Ramón is called ojoche in CR and there is interest in it as a food security answer. People ask me about it but nobody I know of still processes it here. In the Peten of Guatemala I did run into it being used to make a flour.
We are going to have a very good fruit season around September. You could get all the mangosteen seeds you could possibly want!!
Peter

Ramon is still used by the local.Maya as a food source, most often ground into flour but also as a coffee alternative. There's been a lot of recent growth and interest in using it from younger folks and is showing up in slow food/farmers markets. I think the interest in growing it though is tempered somewhat by the mess the tree can make and also the size since it often damages walls and foundations of properties if too close.

I was down in Costa Rica this time last year and had I been part of the forum I would have loved to have come check out what you have growing. I'll see if I can talk the other half into another trip this September so we can gather some mangosteen seeds. We get the fruit occasionally up here but it disappears fast. Not sure where they source it from but I'd suspect Chiapas

[Finca La Isla]

I suspect that a lot of mangosteen comes into southern Mexico from Guatemala. There is a guy Dwight with an organization called frutas del mundo in Rio Dulce that somehow ship to Mexico I think. They are growing a lot of durian now as well. They want to come and get more durian varieties from us.
We met a Canadian woman with a farm and hotel called Genesis that is north of Valladolid who was trying to get a collection of rare fruits together. I’ve meant to go back there but am always going someplace else.
I can’t believe how dry it is here lately but our cacao has been doing well with plenty of production. Just hard to plant.
Peter

[Lumi-Ukko]

I just looked up Genesis and found it in the shadow of Ek Balam Mayan site.  I'll make an effort to go visit there when I'm next in that direction, which might be in a month give or take.  I also am acquainted with a German guy and his wife who bought land near Jose Maria Morelos (Quintana Roo) seven years ago with the hopes to live mostly off grid. They have assembled a large collection of tropical fruit trees and sell trees and seeds that they cultivate from their collection. They have quite a broad ad interesting range of varieties and I'm hoping to go visit them in two weeks to see their set up, and also bring a few trees back to Merida.

Back to cacao, the tree has not taken the transplant very well. I struggled to get it out of it's container so unfortunately broke a lot of soil from it's roots. That said, the soil, though full of worms was very congealed and the root structure was poor.  I think the heat has taken it's toll the last two days and the leaves and new growth has wilted badly. I think right now there's a high-probability on me losing the tree, but hoping the slightly cooler weather and increase in cloud cover and humidity will be just enough to save it. I guess the worst case scenario is it gets pulled and I swap out the tree with a new cacao tree and change the soil in the hole with it in case of fungal diseases.

Since yesterday I got my achachairu ordered since your suggested confirmed it as an addition to my space.

[Finca La Isla]

Too bad about your cacao tree.  In theory it’s an easy thing to grow and I think that with shade and water you should be able to grow it well enough.  Here it seems very adaptable. If you come to CR you could get different material from me.
That being said I have been cautious about bringing material like cacao, coffee, etc. to CR since these crops have lots of problems and I wouldn’t want to introduce another issue.  Mostly what I introduce are new crops, rare fruits that aren’t really known here while at the same time I grow cacao and make chocolate.
Peter

[Lumi-Ukko]

Busy few days so no time to reply. Cacao, I think, is a goner, however I have pruned off all the dead growth.  The branches are still somewhat green inside so I will give it more time and see if it bounces back.

I'm sort of in the same boat as you Peter, trying to grow fruits and crops which are not typically grown in these parts. With vegetables it is easy to learn why they are not grown widely around these parts, but I think with fruit trees it is because of availability more than anything.  Certainly, I think with the trees I will have more success, if I get the environment for each suitable for them.

If I can make it down your way, I will certainly try to pay you a visit.

[Finca La Isla]

Yeah, hope to see You here. There’s going to be lots of fruit in September and October but you’re welcome anytime.
Peter

[Lumi-Ukko]

Yeah, hope to see You here. There’s going to be lots of fruit in September and October but you’re welcome anytime.
Peter

Puerto Viejo is your area correct? Love how lush it looks over there. I'm very envious.

In good news, we finally got the first torrential downpour last night with about 2 inches of rain. Om the the flip side, the lightning was very violent and we lost power during the storm for a bit.  Then we got a nice persistent light rainfall for several hours following and another power cut at 2am for 12 hours after a local transformer blew (the 'explosion' woke me up). Had to go fire up the generator to keep the fridge/freezer and AC running.

A light rain again this evening and I imagine within a few days there will be a massive difference in my trees with the rainwater and increased atmospheric humidity for the leaves.  If the cacao recovers, this is the perfect weather for it.

[Finca La Isla]

Yes, Puerto Viejo. We are still dry here which is very unusual. We get some very light rain but the soil is very dry if you dig a hole. July is just around the corner and it has always rained so we’ve planted anyway and are watering. Fruit is developing and there’s water in the well…
Peter