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Messages - pagnr

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Citrus General Discussion / Re: Donaldson Orange - New Hope for HLB?
« on: August 18, 2022, 06:01:23 PM »
This discovery also illustrates the importance of maintaining Arboretum collections of Citrus varieties.
It equally points out the problems faced by these collections due to changing research priorities and budget decisions.
Many trees in Collections are under threat because they don't seem to have any foreseeable use to commercial Citrus interests.
HLB will only make this worse, as trees are destroyed to fight HLB and protect commercial orchards.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Gummosis problem
« on: August 17, 2022, 06:28:40 PM »
 Everything else is in the same potting media, made of coco chips, coco coir, and perlite with an added biochar.

Seems like a reasonable choice of pot mix components.
The ratio of these is important, in balancing water holding and air pore space.
None are completely inert, they all take up water to various degrees.
Some inert components, like quartz gravel,may give the same structure, but lower saturation.
Generally I stop at 33% coir for my mixes.
Most of the methods I mentioned are preventative or suppressive, although they might help recovery.
I would warn about trying everything at once to fix a problem.
Many nursery plants are grown and shipped with a dose of Fungicide to ward off problems, they might go backwards after it wears off.
A fungicide treatment sounds the best first option in your case.
It does sound like a possible problem with cutting raised plants ?


Citrus General Discussion / Re: Gummosis problem
« on: August 17, 2022, 06:13:32 AM »
Root diseases are generally thought to be more prevalent under unfavourable conditions.
Roots in a cold,saturated,  wet zone at the bottom of a pot could be alleviated by increasing Air filled porosity and drainage.
Repotting into a taller pots without disturbance may help.
Composted chicken manure ( also a Phosphorous source ) is said to have anti Phytophora properties.
Silica is also seen as a useful addition. Various natural minerals supply Silica, an essential plant nutrient that may be absent from Hydroponics or some pot mixes.
Composted fish fertiliser, with a high crustacean content is said to be useful. Fungi have Chitin based cell walls, as do Arthropods.
Some claim the enzymes in composted crustaceans fertiliser can be anti Fungal.
In Australia composted Eucalypt sawdust is a useful addition to pot mix for root disease suppression, above that of properly composted pine bark.

Other factors that promote root disease are root damage,  from incorrect fertiliser application rates, and excessive drying out of the pot mix between waterings.
( drying out increases the fertiliser concentration in the pot mix, more fertiliser in less water ).

Plants in pots can be put higher up on benches. This will keep them in light for longer, out of shady sides or corners.
Also light from below will hit underside of leaves.
There is some use of white or reflective floor covers to bounce light up to leaves.
Some plastic greenhouse films are better at dispersing light, i.e. changing the path to more evenly use light throughout.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Washington navel wont flower
« on: August 15, 2022, 06:14:57 AM »
Since you have fruiting Citrus at your place, doesn't sound like a locality issue.
It could be variety related, some Citrus do better in your area than others.
Where is the nearest other Navel Orange to yours ?
That said the Navel originated in Brazil, so you would think it should be ok ?
Also Oranges can behave differently in Nth Qld ( can't we all ). i.e. regreening of fruit on the tree etc.
Could be a rootstock issue, your different trees could be on different rootstocks.
That might influence growth pattern.
Another factor could be constant growth, with no stress period to induce flowering.
A period of drought stress can induce flowering in the tropics, where there is not the same seasonal change as other areas.
As you say could be too happy, possibly vigorous rootstock is pushing it into growth 24/7.
I hope other members can advise on flowering times and fertilisers that might turn it around.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Citrus macrophylla
« on: August 13, 2022, 07:12:53 PM »
Yes I have grown seed. Highly true to type and vigorous.
Also a few interesting off types can appear. More like versions of Macrophylla.
It is not used much in Australia due to Tristeza, but I don't seem to have any trouble with it here.
Haven't tried cuttings but think they would root ok.

I think I have heard of it, but not sure what direction, i.e. which was the rootstock.
Also Black Sapote is evergreen, but Kaki and American are deciduous.
However that is not an issue in Citrus ( deciduous Trifoliata rootstock under evergreen Citrus varieties, and the reverse combo is ok )
I think Kaki is compatible with some other Diospyros as rootstock. ( Date Plum and American )
Diospyros is also a very big Genus, and not all are closely related.
Some Australian Diospyros species seem close to Kaki in fruit and foliage, some quite different, some like mini Black Sapote.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: A theft on the horizon
« on: August 13, 2022, 06:53:09 PM »
What a nut job! Why would anyone cut down their trees because the fruit got stolen by dumb kids?

Not necessarily Kids, but in my experience in Australia, it is not uncommon for fruit trees to be cut down to prevent someone else getting the fruit.
That's more so with people who don't eat or grow fruit and have no use for it. They just don't like people outside their fence even picking up fallen fruit.
Also they are spiteful of people who don't think like them and would eat something that they would not or didn't get bought in a shop.
I often sample fruit here and there mainly for propagation.
A Hi Vis vest is very handy for ''Official looking visits" to fence line fruit trees in daylight.

Since fruit fly got in here, many trees have been cut down, encouraged by Government to reduce overwintering hosts,
and by people who would cut down the tree rather than deal with the fruit every year.
Around here we have many Italian, Greek, Turkish etc families who grew fruit varieties.
As the parents and grandparents pass away, the varieties from home countries are being lost in the eradication processes.
In fact there was talk of local By Laws to prevent non commercial fruit growing in backyards.
This was also driven by Australian fruit growers who export fruit, Fruit Fly detection shuts the export market.

Finally on the Church/ Scouts issue.. I wonder if the order to cut the trees came from higher up, ( the Priest or Bishop ).
Maybe the were afraid of losing any more Altar Boys or Choirboys to the Scouts??
After all, when I was an Altar Boy, we only got reduced Pennance when we did something wrong. Never a badge when we did something good...

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: A theft on the horizon
« on: August 12, 2022, 05:42:58 PM »
I also did many similar things of that type at that age too.
One day our whole small Catholic Primary School was walking to the town hall and raided Mr Summerfields' Loquat tree.
I can still see that old guy maybe 70 years old chasing all those kids away, and the Nun telling us off.
Of course we went back again for more Loquats.

Another time the small town Council put in cement pit covers, me and my friend carved our initials in the wet cement.
The town had one policeman who was looking for kids with those initials, but couldn't get the combos right to catch the culprits, PG, ME or PM,GE etc etc.

Overall I guess you have to accept that you can't stop kids growing up the way you grew up.
If you are having trouble with a group of kids, tell them you are growing rare fruit, saving types for the future. I think most will get it.

Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Rosso Blood Lemon
« on: August 11, 2022, 03:42:28 AM »
Is Rosso blood lemon a Lemon cultivar, Citrus limon, or something else ?
Maybe C.jambhiri ??

Kitazawa is a good suggestion, particularly that it is in English language and easy to access the seeds.
If you start looking, other seed co have stuff too.
Kyoho is a great grape, also tried some "red" Kyoho type, that was great too.

Have you had any fruit on your Clem X Yuzu ??

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Morus microphylla
« on: August 09, 2022, 06:33:21 AM »
I am in a part of Australia where it is regularly 40'c to 45'c ( up to 110 f + ).
Mulberries are very tough, can handle this ok. The dense foliage is somewhat shading.
In fact they are great cool shade trees on those hot days.
However I do see your point overall.
Have you also considered dwarf cultivars of Mulberry, perhaps another way to overcome the problem.

1rainman, it sounds like you are dealing with a varied population of "wild oranges" of various types.
I have seen some of these groves on a couple of Nature TV shows, and You Tube.

Also always wondered why in The Walking Dead, they were always hunting for expired canned food.
Never seemed to find any apple or Citrus trees in the yard at those abandoned houses they raided for supplies.
I'm sure some trees would hang on for at least some years.

Why Are So Many Seed Vendors So Dishonest?

Not totally in reference to tropical fruit species.
There is a level of skill and knowledge needed to harvest, store and despatch many seed types.
It is clear not all sellers have this.
Some aren't aware of seed lifespans.
There is an inherent failure rate in seed germination, even if everything is done right.
It can be hard to tell at what stage it went wrong, so failure is accepted to some degree.
Some sellers grow seeds, some repackage from other sources.
It is clearly a side business to some sellers, not a passion.
Buyers also lack knowledge about what they are buying.
Some seed sites are somewhere in the Psychedelic Fantasy range of what they offer,
Giant Blue Strawberries, Multi coloured grapes, photoshopped
( there are tricolour wine grapes on one bunch, but not that colourful).
Giant Sweet Pepper varieties, held in the hands of a very small lady.
Some buyers see these items and go Wow, and buy it.
After many years of seed collecting and growing I see this items and think WooooooooW. HaHaHa.

Atherton Raspberry, native to Tropical Nth Qld, but also quite hardy elsewhere. Fruit is excellent.

Rubus parvifolius is another, native to Australia ana Japan, naturalised in USA. Fruit is a little small, but reasonably nice.

There are other Japanese wild species, not sure how tropical they are.

Australia.....No HLB so far.
Livestock farmers here are fretting because Foot and Mouth has broken out in Indonesia.
Bali in Indonesia is Australia's most popular holiday destination.

On top of that varroa mite, pest of honey bees has got into NSW at a port, from overseas shipping, spread further.
Beehive for pollination are restricted to be moved in some areas.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: helpme to ID please
« on: August 06, 2022, 06:02:29 PM »
I was thinking Excalibur Red Lime Hybrid.
Other 'Red Limes" seem to have more pointy leaves than Rangpur.
Some Limequats have pointy leaves, but the fruit colour is wrong for most of those.

Other helpful to ID a Citrus would be where it came from.
Is it a grafted tree from a nursery, that would tend to narrow it down to known types.
Is it a seedling in someones yard, that could widen the possibilities.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: helpme to ID please
« on: August 05, 2022, 07:26:42 PM »
Possibly a Rangpur or Rangpur hybrid ?
Can you do a better pic of the foliage.
Could be Calamondin but hard to tell from foliage.
Both the above would have sour mandarin flavour more than exactly lemon.
Any reddish flowers or new growth tips.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Recommendations: Pruning tools
« on: August 05, 2022, 05:04:39 PM »
Are you pruning limbs out or cutting down trees ?
With a battery chainsaw, watch the battery life. You don't want to run out of charge mid cut on a big trunk or hanging limb.
Ok well you can stall or can't start a petrol chainsaw too.
Good saw blades on hand tools are just as good as a chainsaw for small limbs and branches.
Yes a chainsaw can cut faster, but you also have to clear out what you cut from the tree.
A D handle bush saw is a good tool.
A curved blade pruning saw is good for tricky spots.
Strong loppers are good for trimming up smaller side branches.
Using these will save your battery life.

I have a few Sweet Orange seedling rootstocks from purchased trees, that have fruited after the graft died.
The fruit are definitely oranges, nice sized but not sweet enough to bother eating.
They are not the Sour Orange species, Citrus aurantium but they are "sour oranges"
On the other hand some older trees around here are old Sweet Orange rootstocks. Fruit is fantastic, apart from the seeds.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: How to cut mandarin tree
« on: August 04, 2022, 05:48:22 PM »
I've had 1 citrumelo tree flower and fruit in its 2nd year from seed. Another 2 fruited in their 3rd year. An additional 10 haven't fruited yet.

Are these Citrumelos supposed to be polyembryonic, for uniform rootstocks.
I have some fruiting Swingle Citrumelos here. The fruit shapes are fairly variable between trees. No difference in the fruit flavour internally.
Seeds are slightly different re size. One produces a heap of tiny seed and a few big seed.
I wouldn't regard these as Off types.
Generally with fruiting rootstocks such as Citrange, fruit can be slightly variable.
Once found a row of Rough Lemons, rootstocks that had taken over. Presumably all from the same RL strain, same nursery.
Fruit on different trees was fairly variable, i.e. big/small,smooth/rough, Yellow/orange etc.
As you say the flowering timing of yours seems to be genetically variable ?

Citrus General Discussion / Re: UF Australian Lime Improvement Program
« on: August 04, 2022, 05:34:18 PM »
Thanks for that. Are both those releases hybrids ? Wondering what the parents are ?
Guessing red fingerlime but one fruit looks like M.inodora too.
Also the Citrus parent ?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Vent Session - Tree Trimmers
« on: August 04, 2022, 06:29:04 AM »
So the Tree Trimmers entered your yard, without your consent to remove the fallen fronds ? and possibly to trim from your yard ?
Any palm seed or fronds normally fall or blow into your yard ?

I used to do some casual work with a tree trimmer a while back.
Sometimes things went a little pear shaped, but most often it was very well controlled.

I recently found a fruiting Rough Lemon Rootstock in an abandoned yard.
The lower part of the tree had Navel Oranges growing.
Looks like a rootstock sucker has started to take over.
I ate an Orange, it was a little small and had tight skin.
Not sure of the actual Navel variety, early or late etc.
It is Navel Orange season here now, probably midway in the picking season.
The Orange flavour was quite acceptable, clearly orange.
It definitely tasted of Orange, not Lemon.
However there was a slight sourness at the end.
It wasn't the richest Naval Orange flavour, but it wasn't as bad as old oranges either.
Not sure how much this was due to the rootstock or fruit ripeness or lack of attention. ??
I will grab a few later and see how they improve.

I don't think it matters if you believe in either Creationism or Evolution.
There are many threatened species in the world today, created or evolved.
I think the majority of members here would agree that plant species sent to near extinction by Human activity,
is a blight on either belief system.

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