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Messages - pagnr

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Citrus General Discussion / Re: Citrus macrophylla
« on: August 13, 2022, 07:12:53 PM »
Yes I have grown seed. Highly true to type and vigorous.
Also a few interesting off types can appear. More like versions of Macrophylla.
It is not used much in Australia due to Tristeza, but I don't seem to have any trouble with it here.
Haven't tried cuttings but think they would root ok.

I think I have heard of it, but not sure what direction, i.e. which was the rootstock.
Also Black Sapote is evergreen, but Kaki and American are deciduous.
However that is not an issue in Citrus ( deciduous Trifoliata rootstock under evergreen Citrus varieties, and the reverse combo is ok )
I think Kaki is compatible with some other Diospyros as rootstock. ( Date Plum and American )
Diospyros is also a very big Genus, and not all are closely related.
Some Australian Diospyros species seem close to Kaki in fruit and foliage, some quite different, some like mini Black Sapote.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: A theft on the horizon
« on: August 13, 2022, 06:53:09 PM »
What a nut job! Why would anyone cut down their trees because the fruit got stolen by dumb kids?

Not necessarily Kids, but in my experience in Australia, it is not uncommon for fruit trees to be cut down to prevent someone else getting the fruit.
That's more so with people who don't eat or grow fruit and have no use for it. They just don't like people outside their fence even picking up fallen fruit.
Also they are spiteful of people who don't think like them and would eat something that they would not or didn't get bought in a shop.
I often sample fruit here and there mainly for propagation.
A Hi Vis vest is very handy for ''Official looking visits" to fence line fruit trees in daylight.

Since fruit fly got in here, many trees have been cut down, encouraged by Government to reduce overwintering hosts,
and by people who would cut down the tree rather than deal with the fruit every year.
Around here we have many Italian, Greek, Turkish etc families who grew fruit varieties.
As the parents and grandparents pass away, the varieties from home countries are being lost in the eradication processes.
In fact there was talk of local By Laws to prevent non commercial fruit growing in backyards.
This was also driven by Australian fruit growers who export fruit, Fruit Fly detection shuts the export market.

Finally on the Church/ Scouts issue.. I wonder if the order to cut the trees came from higher up, ( the Priest or Bishop ).
Maybe the were afraid of losing any more Altar Boys or Choirboys to the Scouts??
After all, when I was an Altar Boy, we only got reduced Pennance when we did something wrong. Never a badge when we did something good...

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: A theft on the horizon
« on: August 12, 2022, 05:42:58 PM »
I also did many similar things of that type at that age too.
One day our whole small Catholic Primary School was walking to the town hall and raided Mr Summerfields' Loquat tree.
I can still see that old guy maybe 70 years old chasing all those kids away, and the Nun telling us off.
Of course we went back again for more Loquats.

Another time the small town Council put in cement pit covers, me and my friend carved our initials in the wet cement.
The town had one policeman who was looking for kids with those initials, but couldn't get the combos right to catch the culprits, PG, ME or PM,GE etc etc.

Overall I guess you have to accept that you can't stop kids growing up the way you grew up.
If you are having trouble with a group of kids, tell them you are growing rare fruit, saving types for the future. I think most will get it.

Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Rosso Blood Lemon
« on: August 11, 2022, 03:42:28 AM »
Is Rosso blood lemon a Lemon cultivar, Citrus limon, or something else ?
Maybe C.jambhiri ??

Kitazawa is a good suggestion, particularly that it is in English language and easy to access the seeds.
If you start looking, other seed co have stuff too.
Kyoho is a great grape, also tried some "red" Kyoho type, that was great too.

Have you had any fruit on your Clem X Yuzu ??

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Morus microphylla
« on: August 09, 2022, 06:33:21 AM »
I am in a part of Australia where it is regularly 40'c to 45'c ( up to 110 f + ).
Mulberries are very tough, can handle this ok. The dense foliage is somewhat shading.
In fact they are great cool shade trees on those hot days.
However I do see your point overall.
Have you also considered dwarf cultivars of Mulberry, perhaps another way to overcome the problem.

1rainman, it sounds like you are dealing with a varied population of "wild oranges" of various types.
I have seen some of these groves on a couple of Nature TV shows, and You Tube.

Also always wondered why in The Walking Dead, they were always hunting for expired canned food.
Never seemed to find any apple or Citrus trees in the yard at those abandoned houses they raided for supplies.
I'm sure some trees would hang on for at least some years.

Why Are So Many Seed Vendors So Dishonest?

Not totally in reference to tropical fruit species.
There is a level of skill and knowledge needed to harvest, store and despatch many seed types.
It is clear not all sellers have this.
Some aren't aware of seed lifespans.
There is an inherent failure rate in seed germination, even if everything is done right.
It can be hard to tell at what stage it went wrong, so failure is accepted to some degree.
Some sellers grow seeds, some repackage from other sources.
It is clearly a side business to some sellers, not a passion.
Buyers also lack knowledge about what they are buying.
Some seed sites are somewhere in the Psychedelic Fantasy range of what they offer,
Giant Blue Strawberries, Multi coloured grapes, photoshopped
( there are tricolour wine grapes on one bunch, but not that colourful).
Giant Sweet Pepper varieties, held in the hands of a very small lady.
Some buyers see these items and go Wow, and buy it.
After many years of seed collecting and growing I see this items and think WooooooooW. HaHaHa.

Atherton Raspberry, native to Tropical Nth Qld, but also quite hardy elsewhere. Fruit is excellent.

Rubus parvifolius is another, native to Australia ana Japan, naturalised in USA. Fruit is a little small, but reasonably nice.

There are other Japanese wild species, not sure how tropical they are.

Australia.....No HLB so far.
Livestock farmers here are fretting because Foot and Mouth has broken out in Indonesia.
Bali in Indonesia is Australia's most popular holiday destination.

On top of that varroa mite, pest of honey bees has got into NSW at a port, from overseas shipping, spread further.
Beehive for pollination are restricted to be moved in some areas.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: helpme to ID please
« on: August 06, 2022, 06:02:29 PM »
I was thinking Excalibur Red Lime Hybrid.
Other 'Red Limes" seem to have more pointy leaves than Rangpur.
Some Limequats have pointy leaves, but the fruit colour is wrong for most of those.

Other helpful to ID a Citrus would be where it came from.
Is it a grafted tree from a nursery, that would tend to narrow it down to known types.
Is it a seedling in someones yard, that could widen the possibilities.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: helpme to ID please
« on: August 05, 2022, 07:26:42 PM »
Possibly a Rangpur or Rangpur hybrid ?
Can you do a better pic of the foliage.
Could be Calamondin but hard to tell from foliage.
Both the above would have sour mandarin flavour more than exactly lemon.
Any reddish flowers or new growth tips.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Recommendations: Pruning tools
« on: August 05, 2022, 05:04:39 PM »
Are you pruning limbs out or cutting down trees ?
With a battery chainsaw, watch the battery life. You don't want to run out of charge mid cut on a big trunk or hanging limb.
Ok well you can stall or can't start a petrol chainsaw too.
Good saw blades on hand tools are just as good as a chainsaw for small limbs and branches.
Yes a chainsaw can cut faster, but you also have to clear out what you cut from the tree.
A D handle bush saw is a good tool.
A curved blade pruning saw is good for tricky spots.
Strong loppers are good for trimming up smaller side branches.
Using these will save your battery life.

I have a few Sweet Orange seedling rootstocks from purchased trees, that have fruited after the graft died.
The fruit are definitely oranges, nice sized but not sweet enough to bother eating.
They are not the Sour Orange species, Citrus aurantium but they are "sour oranges"
On the other hand some older trees around here are old Sweet Orange rootstocks. Fruit is fantastic, apart from the seeds.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: How to cut mandarin tree
« on: August 04, 2022, 05:48:22 PM »
I've had 1 citrumelo tree flower and fruit in its 2nd year from seed. Another 2 fruited in their 3rd year. An additional 10 haven't fruited yet.

Are these Citrumelos supposed to be polyembryonic, for uniform rootstocks.
I have some fruiting Swingle Citrumelos here. The fruit shapes are fairly variable between trees. No difference in the fruit flavour internally.
Seeds are slightly different re size. One produces a heap of tiny seed and a few big seed.
I wouldn't regard these as Off types.
Generally with fruiting rootstocks such as Citrange, fruit can be slightly variable.
Once found a row of Rough Lemons, rootstocks that had taken over. Presumably all from the same RL strain, same nursery.
Fruit on different trees was fairly variable, i.e. big/small,smooth/rough, Yellow/orange etc.
As you say the flowering timing of yours seems to be genetically variable ?

Citrus General Discussion / Re: UF Australian Lime Improvement Program
« on: August 04, 2022, 05:34:18 PM »
Thanks for that. Are both those releases hybrids ? Wondering what the parents are ?
Guessing red fingerlime but one fruit looks like M.inodora too.
Also the Citrus parent ?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Vent Session - Tree Trimmers
« on: August 04, 2022, 06:29:04 AM »
So the Tree Trimmers entered your yard, without your consent to remove the fallen fronds ? and possibly to trim from your yard ?
Any palm seed or fronds normally fall or blow into your yard ?

I used to do some casual work with a tree trimmer a while back.
Sometimes things went a little pear shaped, but most often it was very well controlled.

I recently found a fruiting Rough Lemon Rootstock in an abandoned yard.
The lower part of the tree had Navel Oranges growing.
Looks like a rootstock sucker has started to take over.
I ate an Orange, it was a little small and had tight skin.
Not sure of the actual Navel variety, early or late etc.
It is Navel Orange season here now, probably midway in the picking season.
The Orange flavour was quite acceptable, clearly orange.
It definitely tasted of Orange, not Lemon.
However there was a slight sourness at the end.
It wasn't the richest Naval Orange flavour, but it wasn't as bad as old oranges either.
Not sure how much this was due to the rootstock or fruit ripeness or lack of attention. ??
I will grab a few later and see how they improve.

I don't think it matters if you believe in either Creationism or Evolution.
There are many threatened species in the world today, created or evolved.
I think the majority of members here would agree that plant species sent to near extinction by Human activity,
is a blight on either belief system.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Calcium carbonate use for tropicals
« on: August 02, 2022, 05:54:18 PM »
I am also interested in gypsum, what tipe of gypsum is generally used? Does the builders gypsum, the one that combined with water hardens up, can be used for amending?

Gypsum is Calcium Sulphate, It can be used to supply Ca and S. It is useful as a non lime form of Ca. i.e. not Limestone or Dolomite Lime.
Gypsum will not push up the pH like lime because the Sulphur balances the Ca. In pot mixes up to about 1 kg of Gypsum per cubic metre will not alter pH.
The finer the gypsum particles the greater the reaction. Coarse Gypsum particles act as slow release. Fine powder will be used faster.
You can even bust up Gypsum based building plasterboard for a source.
Natural Gypsum is mined from deposits.
Phosphogypsum is a byproduct of Superphosphate, which is derived from phosphate rock. It can contain heavy metals etc.

When I first started investigating pot mix fertilisers, I often over did amendments. That includes an episode of top dressing Citrus rootstock pots with a good handful of coarse,  "slow release" Gypsum. Over time it severely set them back. The rate was too much, and burnt the roots.
Now I would calculate the amount to apply based on the size of the pots.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Calcium carbonate use for tropicals
« on: August 02, 2022, 01:39:24 AM »
Calcium carbonate is basically limestone dust, the most common source.
In horticulture it would be used to supply Calcium and increase the pH of soils or pot mix. i.e. to pH balance acid bog peat in pot mix.
Generally the finer the powder, the more pH reactive it is.
Not sure I would be rushing in to apply it to tropicals, unless your pot mix is low pH.
I think many species prefer neutral to slightly acid soil.
There are other Calcium sources that don't alter pH as easily.

Yes it must be common with many species, where selections head off into domestication.
It is interesting that Macadamia is a very recent entry into cultivation, and industry expansion. Less than 100 years ??
Also unlike many other fruit or nut species that we can think of, it was not "cultivated" by the original Australians.
Clearly it was eaten by them, nuts collected and traded, and probably stands of trees protected and interacted with for mutual benefit.
Finger limes from similar rainforest areas have been recently introduced to cultivation as multiple varieties selected from the wild trees, and even some X Citrus hybrids produced.

"It is labeled Diammonium Phosphate.
Could be low biuret, but if the product label does not list the biuret content there is no way of knowing."

As far as I know, unless it contains Urea, Biuret shouldn't be an issue because the N is Ammonium.
Otherwise the Biuret warning would apply to other N fertilisers.
Not sure if the Ammonium breaks down to other forms ( urea ?) but without the manufacturing process heat, don't think the Biuret compound can form easily.
ps Ammonium fertilisers also have some warnings, i.e. in cool dull weather plant roots can get problems.

"I tried urea from Alpha Chemicals once and it caused burning and defoliation. Their specification sheet says that biuret is less that 0.5% "

Biuret causes a toxicity symptom. white or yellow leaf margins, plants stop growing.
Low Biuret Urea at high rates, or rates too high for young plants, or not sufficiently mixed and agitated well will still cause burning.
Dog Pee on lawns causes burnt grass.
I once fertilised Citrus seedlings with a liquid Urea fertiliser, Citrus was ok but small Microcitrus dropped their leaves.
Also they got it at the end of the vat, so could have been a heavier concentration slug in the last of the vat.
Since then I increased the agitation of spray mixes, i.e. a circulating return off take on a pump, or occasionally shaking a hand sprayer to re mix spray liquid.

Urea can be harsh at high rates, it is recommended to use it to clean out other chemical residues in farm spray vats.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Why no Subtropical folder/category?
« on: August 01, 2022, 05:09:05 PM »
I can't think of anyone who doesn't like to push the boundaries of what they can grow in their climate.
That ranges from those who grow Tropical Fruit in pots in Melbourne Australia,
to some real kooks that aimed to grow Apples in Far North Queensland, ( at higher elevations ).
Not satisfied with all the true tropical fruit they could grow down on the coast,
or the Apples from Tasmania they could buy at the supermarket.
I am in a temperate area, but can grow plenty of subtropical and tropicals.
As frost has really lessened over the last years, that has become easier,
except for the fruit fly arrival, and their overwintering survival.

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