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Messages - pagnr

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P. borbonia is not graft or cross compatible with avocad based on the research I have studied. Are the others?

The hardiest, P. borbonia, P. ichangensis and P. lingue, none are in the same sub group as Avocado.
Based on what you say, probably not.
Only Persea schiedeana, the Coyo is in the same group, along with Avocado sub species.
As the hardiest Persea, survive temperatures down to about −12 °C (10.4 °F), I thought that was probably the limit you could ever hope for with Avocado.
That is probably outside the scope of conventional plant breeding, but maybe not the more recent methods of gene transfer (from the hardy species),
or artificial chimeras of two species ?

In Australia there is a move toward much smaller Avocado trees, for picking and management purposes.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Hurricane Ian Prep
« on: September 28, 2022, 03:36:27 AM »
The coming Hurricane made the news in Australia, thinking positive for all who may be in it's path.

There are Avocado relatives in the broader Lauracea family in colder areas, most of these are still evergreens. Sassafras is said to be one that is deciduous.
In the Avocado genus Persea,  "none of the species are very tolerant of severe winter cold, with the hardiest, P. borbonia, P. ichangensis and P. lingue,
surviving temperatures down to about −12 °C (10.4 °F) "

You would need thousands, probably tens of thousands to get a mutation other than one that makes the plant weak.

Most known Avocado varieties in USA and Australia, particularly older types are chance seedlings of unknown origin.
ie Jalna, Zutano, Bacon, Rincon, Edranol (seedling of Lyon ), Sharwil, Hazzard, Hass, Millicent ( seedling of Mary Martin ), Reed.
That is an old Australian list, doesn't cover all the seedling types in Nth Qld, let alone USA or even Hawaii.
There has been deliberate Avocado breeding in Australia in the last 20+ years, but not much result ???

Yes Avocado seedlings can certainly be duds, low fruiting, long time to maturity, poor seed to flesh ratio, fruit prone to rot.
Yet even on this forum alone there are notable Avocado seedlings intro'd by members.
I would go as far as to agree that breeding Avocados is a big task and possibly a long haul project.

Bacon is probably the most cold hardy variety in Australia. It is recommended for Melbourne, Victoria in the far south and coastal areas around there.
That doesn't mean it won't grow well in hotter areas, early on it was a commercial variety, now replaced with mainly Hass types.
Seeds of this, or known cold tolerant types in cold locations are probably your best starting place, as there is probably less of a jump to increased cold tolerance.

I am not sure there could be a leap to deciduous Avocado trees ?
In Avocados there may be increased frost protection from changes to  leaf thickness, ( tougher ) plant inactivity in cold weather, ( semi dormancy ),
oils in leaves ( antifreeze ) etc. Tree shape may affect the way the plant sheds cold air, canopy density may affect insulation properties.
The foliage probably gives some level of frost protection, at least for thin branches and twigs for minor frosts.
There have been -10'C frosts here which devastated Avocado trees in the past.

Some Citrus relatives are cold hardy deciduous ( Poncirus trifoliata ). Cold hardy Citrus X Poncirus hybrids are not deciduous like Poncirus. Some may be semi deciduous, but seem to be cold resistant due to other traits inherited from Poncirus.

Another option may be Dwarf Avocado types, partly cold resistant, and more easily protected by frost cloths / structures.
There are also other Persea species, some may be more cold tolerant, some may be suitable as rootstocks ?

Happy to send a copy of the study that suggested it, if you like!
Not sure bout pagnr but I'd like to see the study. If you have a link to the paper it'd be great to post that here for posterity.

Yes the link would be great.

Also mixing the Captan with the Latex paint, how long does the application last / how long it is effective for ?
Did it send any plants over the brink ? I have noticed that with other fungicides, they can sometimes give up and die after a fungicide  application.

I spoke to the nursery where I purchased the “Australian Red”, the actual variety name is “Sanguinea”.

Ok, that seems a bit odd. Citrus australasica var sanguinea is an older botanical term for all red pigmented Fingerlimes.
(It ignores the other pigmented types, yellow, pink etc ).
Many Fingerlimes with red pigment would be var sanguine.
On the other hand there does seem to be a UC riverside fingerlime accession var Sanguinea, but the information is a bit confusing.
Maybe it traces back to a UC release ?

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Citrus macrophylla
« on: September 25, 2022, 06:27:45 PM »
Citrus macrophylla is not the most edible Citrus, I wouldn't say it tastes particularly bad, but it doesn't have a clean flavour like lemon or lime.
So far it seems pretty bomb proof, fruit hang on the tree for ages, don't seem to get attacked by anything.
C.macrophylla also seems to be fairly tough plant for rootstock use, and fairly vigorous.
Also I am interested in Papedas overall, so growing a few types even though some aren't the most useful fruit.
( I am in a Citrus growing area, so can get regular fruit types fairly easily most of the time ).

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Foxfarm Ocean Forest potting soil
« on: September 25, 2022, 06:05:07 PM »
I had issues with Fungi fruiting in pine bark bases mixes.
Basically the pine bark was not composted before the mix was made, this allowed stage 1 organisms to colonise /dominate the mix.
Properly composted pine bark should be at a later stage, favouring different organisms.
You see yellow fruiting bodies, but underneath there is a mass of hyphae. Sometimes a low %, sometimes a large %.
Some of my pots were dominated by the fungi, lots of pinkish threads and a distinct smell.
Overall there is a balance between protection by the wood rotting fungi from other pathogenic fungi and competition for nutrients with your plant.
Also wood rotting fungi will break down the organic matter in the mix, shrinking the mix and changing the structure.
The issue went on for several years in those pots until the fungal balance changed, and the pot mix went to another stage.
For pot mixes based on pine bark, peat, coir etc there is a benefit to some slight composting activity in the pots, as it promotes healthy microorganisms and disease suppression.
If the hyphae become too dominate they can negatively affect live plant roots.
Using liquid feeds like compost tea, seaweed, fish fertiliser that promote other organisms may restore the microbe balance.
Topdressing with organic fertilisers that need to be broken down may also benefit.
If your plants are growing normally, and not showing signs of slower growth or stagnation, it should be ok.
Also as you say, environmental conditions are a major trigger to fungal activity.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Avocado variety identification
« on: September 25, 2022, 04:06:05 AM »
It looks like a nice tree. Sorry I cant ID it any further.
Are Avocado fruit available in shops or markets in Ludhiana ?
Maybe it came from where the fruit farms are ?
Maybe it is one of those types ?
What type of Avocado fruit can you buy in India ?Are they Local or Imported ?

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Citrus macrophylla
« on: September 25, 2022, 03:54:47 AM »
Those photos are interesting.
I am in the Southern Hemisphere ,right now my Alemow fruit is a bit bigger and light yellow colour.
A few early Citrus are also just starting to flower here now, end of September, early spring.
I am thinking your fruit is a lot greener than when I would pick mine.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Avocado variety identification
« on: September 23, 2022, 07:29:13 PM »
You can tell different Avocado varieties apart by the leaf shape and colour of new growth, and tree shape if you know what you are looking for.
It is hard question because we don't know the source of the grafts.
It could be a more tropical area to the south, a neighbouring country,
or an agricultural research station in your area.
It could be grafted from a unique fruiting tree in your area ?

Mexican varieties have anise scented leaves, so if it has scented leaves it is more likely a Mexican type or Mexican hybrid.

Other members might be able to guess what Avocado race the tree could possibly be ?

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Citrus macrophylla
« on: September 23, 2022, 04:32:56 PM »
Not sure about that, I guess you can get good seed out of green Makrut / hystrix fruit, another Papeda type.
As for macrophylla, I was not in a rush to eat them so I waited till they dropped / knocked off.
Unless you are rushing to sow the seed, maybe wait till yellow.
The fruit do seem to get full size and hang at the green yellow stage for a long time.
Maybe that is why it is popular in the Phillipines, holds well on the tree ?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: How to keep citrus alive in winter? Zone 8b/7
« on: September 23, 2022, 09:27:19 AM »
Various cheap clear plastic medium duty thick bags are available, such as 200 litre bin liners, to larger mattress protector bags from bed shops ( cost $2 each here ).
These are pretty cheap may to make mini greenhouse covers, for one season.
A 100 watt incandescent bulb ( old style) can be used inside a mini glasshouse etc to warm the air for frost protection.

There is a limited number of Finger Limes available in USA.
Also because of greening restrictions possibly less types officially available in Florida ?
Possibly 'Australian Red' available in Florida is a particular release ?
I think UF has been working on them recently.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: TDS levels and gray water watering
« on: September 22, 2022, 05:28:55 PM »
My tap water is showing about 310 on the TDS meter.  Since I've started using soap nuts instead of laundry detergent,  the laundry gray water levels have been 300-350.

Yes that is not a big jump. Soil should act as a buffer, and soil organisms should consume some nutrients too from soaps and detergents.
That could depend on soil type, very light soils might offer less buffer and microbe activity,
As you are in a drought regime, you may not be able to apply any non grey water as usual, or rely heavily on grey for multiple irrigations ?
Check the ingredients of the Oxiclean, there may be a sodium component as a stabiliser ?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Japanese Persimmons
« on: September 22, 2022, 07:50:48 AM »
They can be after ripened with ethylene gas.
That is done in a chamber for commercial fruit.
Another trick is placing the fruit with a banana in a sealed plastic bag.
In Japan Kaki fruit were placed in empty Sake barrels to ripen them.
Might be worth checking out at what stage the crop is picked ?
I think they are at the orange yellow stage but still firm.
Not sure how earlier you could pick them.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: TDS levels and gray water watering
« on: September 22, 2022, 03:54:22 AM »
TDS is derived from EC (electrical conductivity)
Tds/ec measurement does not tell you what is dissolved, just how much electrically charged particles are in solution. Without testing a sample there's really no way to be sure what is in it.

As I understand it you still have to watch the EC of water you apply, including liquid fertiliser mixes ( and ultimately dry fertiliser that dissolves in water ).
Basically if NaCl salt has an EC, then so does CaCl, MgCl, and also MgSO4 etc etc. all common component of fertilisers.
Yes some are going to be beneficial nutrients and some more harmful, but a very high EC from any compound can be a problem, particularly in pot plants.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: How to harvest green jakfruit?
« on: September 21, 2022, 09:17:03 PM »
Yes the latex will stick to your hands too, pretty hard to get off. Gloves might be the best.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: T-Bud grafting of citrus
« on: September 21, 2022, 06:58:53 AM »
Not having access to budwood, but having a number of young citrus in containers (and a few older in ground), I've been cutting buds from the middle of live branches where the small branch is at least round.  No success yet and I don't know if this is because my designated trees don't seem to have slipping bark, or the buds are small, or because it's a bad way to collect buds.  Do you have any thoughts about this?

It could be a good place to start, using your own material, as it eliminates some factors involved in failure, i.e. incompatibility and incorrect budwood storage.

Any ideas why the failures are happening in your case ?
Bud dies by infection via petiole scar.
Fungus infects under tape, whole bud goes fuzzy grey and dies.
Bud looks good until tape removed then it dries off and dies soon after ( not healed ).

Chip budding is another simple technique, doesn't need bark slipping.

You could try using different tapes.
Buddy Tape or Parafilm can have better results, as you don't need to remove the tape for the bud to shoot.
Weather and irrigation can also be important. I usually avoid overhead irrigation until buds have shot.
Hygiene can be important, clean hands and tools might also make a difference.
With correct technique, very tiny buds can be quite successful.

Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: WTB 日向夏 Hyuganatsu
« on: September 21, 2022, 02:16:33 AM »
Hyuganatsu citrus is only available for a few weeks in the early to late spring when cultivated in outside orchards. The citrus is also grown on a small scale in greenhouses, producing fruits from the mid-winter to the early spring.

Today Hyuganatsu citrus is primarily grown in the Miyazaki Prefecture and is found through specialty distributors, roadside stands, and local markets. The citrus is also grown in other regions of Japan under the names Konatsu and Tosakonatsu

Info from Specialty Produce

Not sure if you could track down a fruit if you visit Japan ? Might still be available from coolroom storage ?

Mexican Race Avocados, the more cold hardy type, have Anise scented leaves. Hybrid varieties can have some anise scent too.
You may be able to screen seedlings for Mexican ancestry ?
It may or may not be directly linked to cold tolerance, but it could be an interesting marker to watch out for ?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Durio crassipes
« on: September 20, 2022, 10:21:01 PM »
Have you asked locally?
I " phoned a friend " in Cairns, said one of the Durian Lovers ( lives in the Daintree ) has eaten it in Borneo.

"It’s a snacking durian, P ate them in Borneo just growing wild at entrance to national park"

the survival of the fittest "method" is suitable for getting the fittest individuals, IMO not suitable if people looking to breed dwarfs or for specific fruit characteristics to mention two parameters.

Yes, less vigorous types can be grafted onto rootstocks overcome that problem. Avocados have a few rootstock choices for different situations, Citrus has a wide range of choices.
As I remember there were a lot of Avocado seedling vars in FNQLD, some got to markets, a lot of types on the Tablelands on peoples fences, a few in the bush.

In my opinion there is no definitive answer because most Citrus are hybrids of several original species.
Some Microcitrus can fruit from seed in 18 months,
West Indian Lime 3 years,
Mandarin 6 years,
Pummelo 10 years plus.
Citrus cultivars are complex hybrids of the above and more.
There would be different systems and genes counteracting each other at times to induce or delay flowering maturity.
What works in one case may not work for another.
On top of that there is climate, in areas of continual growth i.e. tropics, flowering and growth to node count can be achieved much faster.
Node count is a good rule, but there are certainly case of Citrus plants flowering well before it is achieved.
Presumably mutations that lessen the effect of one or more controlling genes.

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