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Messages - pagnr

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Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The most hardy non trifolate citrus tree
« on: September 05, 2022, 03:27:23 AM »
yes but Yuzu is not edible

It's not inedible either. You can certainly make drinks, cakes, etc out of it.
A multitude of "yuses".
Better than Poncirus fruit.

Another very hardy Citrus is Nansho Dai Dai, Citrus taiwanica, possibly even too sour for Yuzu eaters ?

Anybody want to tackle the question of the rootstock for "zone 7a/6b, most cold tolerant citrus"
Own rooted plant or on a cold tolerant inducing rootstock ( Poncirus  ? ).

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 10b (south florida) perennial staple foods
« on: September 04, 2022, 03:39:12 PM »
Having travelled /lived off the grid in Nth Qld, on and off when I was younger, suggest the following.
green papaya
sweet potato for tubers and leaves
These have some storage potential, at least a week and upwards with taro and pumpkin
Breadfruit was suggested, don't forget Breadnut, the type with seeds.
Jackfruit was suggested. As I remember Chempadak has better tasting seeds.
Marang and Pedali have really nice crab tasting roasted seeds.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Tropical Sources of ALA (Omega-3)
« on: September 04, 2022, 02:57:59 AM »
Beans, Hemp seeds, Chia, pumpkin seeds.
It is probably an unexplored area.

I recently read about this. Interesting because both are Fungicides with low off target problems, i.e. some of the "safer" fungicides to use.
Also various copper mixtures are residual, in the sense they stay on branches and leaves for a while.
I have encouraged this by adding milk powder to C Oxo and painting on trunks, or using a sticky version like Flo Bordeaux.
Also wondering how much these on plant residues could be affected by a later Phos Acid application, and for what period ?

Another warning was using Phos Acid fungicides on highly stressed trees.
Info came from here

Young and/or stressed trees are very sensitive to phosphorous acid-induced phytotoxicity (e.g. leaf spotting and defoliation). Experience has found rates exceeding 1.9g/L active ingredient to induce phytotoxicity in container grown citrus and stressed field trees. 1.3g/L active has been safely used for container grown citrus. This corresponds to a rate of 2.2mL/L for formulations of 600g/L phosphorous acid.
The best approach for stressed trees is to apply the lowest of the label rates, judging the need to reapply by inspecting root health after 2 to 4 weeks. Alternatively, the effectiveness of applications can be determined by analysis of phosphite levels in the roots (greater than 30ppm are required) – analytical companies such as SGS provide this service.

Phosphorous acid and copper fungicides
Phosphorous acid application in the presence of copper fungicide residues increases Cu ion release, increasing the risk of copper phytotoxicity – particularly if the pH of the phosphorous acid is not adjusted to >7.2. Risk depends on copper type (in order of decreasing risk): hydroxide > oxychloride> oxide.
Check thoroughly with the phosphorous acid manufacturer before attempting to tank mix with other chemical. As a general rule, phosphorous acid should not be tank mixed with any other fungicides.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Anyone willing to send one seed to me
« on: September 02, 2022, 11:18:22 PM »
You could also buy Tropical fruit locally and keep the seed.
Mangoes, Custard Apples, Pummelos,Avocados ?? These are reasonably available in supermarkets or specialty groceries.
This can be an inexpensive way to practice germinating and transplanting tropical fruit seedlings.
Some could be good as rootstocks for grafting.
I grew Tamarinds from an Indian grocery, also various spices, and Supermarket Mangoes back in 1986.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Anyone willing to send one seed to me
« on: September 02, 2022, 09:10:39 PM »
Will you post the US $1 note to Australia ?

Is this Pandanus plant available in Australia ?
I have seen some wild red Pandanus fruit in Nth QLD, not the same thing.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: fusion power vs citrus trees
« on: September 02, 2022, 03:41:59 AM »
Have you factors in those 40'c plus heat wave events in Canada last year ?
We have had 47'c a few times here, several years ago.

The heat wave appeared due to an exceptionally strong ridge centered over the area, whose strength was linked to the effects of climate change.[10][11] It resulted in some of the highest temperatures ever recorded in the region,[12] including the highest temperature ever measured in Canada at 49.6 °C (121.3 °F), as well as the highest temperatures in British Columbia, in the Northwest Territories, in the state of Washington as well as a tied record in Oregon. The record-high temperatures associated with the heat wave stretched from Oregon to northern Manitoba, and daily highs were set as far east as Labrador and as far southwest as Southern California. However, the Pacific Northwest suffered the vast majority of the disruption and damage connected with the extreme weather event.

Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Anyone selling green tangerines?
« on: September 02, 2022, 03:29:04 AM »
I tried a green clementine recently, as I remember they are popular in Egypt at green stage. Full sized, just braking colour.
A bit sharp, refreshing. Bit like mild Rangpur Lime.

It might be useful with Chinotto, that has very close spaced buds. Often hard to find a good stick with spaced buds. ( I usually used very tiny chip buds ).
I have tried something similar with Microcitrus with thin angular twigs, i.e. half the twig side on so it has a face with two buds. Took Ok, but didn't always shoot well.
Maybe this has better cambium contact ?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Blueberries for the True Tropics
« on: September 01, 2022, 07:07:37 PM »

I am growing some Nth Qld Syzygiums much further south in Victoria.
They do seem to get more active twice a year when day length / night length get close.
Apart from that rain seems to stimulate them.
Also night temperature seems to influence some plants.
Warm nights, 20'c seem to fire up the Citrus to flush here.

It reminded me of Syzygium cormiflorum from Nth Qld. The Eugenia is spectacular.
The Syzygium can get a little like that when the new leaves transition from red to green.
I wonder if the Eugenia is still in the old classification for Myrtles ? Wonder what the fruit is like ?

Syzygium cormiflorum fruits on its trunk. Fruit are large, bland. Something like non bitter eggplant texture.

In Far North Queensland, worms are a problem in pots because they attract Bandicoots.
Basically they will rip open planter bags and dig out pots to get the worms.
Not sure if rats could cause those problems elsewhere, or other small mammals (shrews ) ??
For a correctly structured pot mix, with particles of various sizes, there is no advantage to worms.
You are better to add worm egg free worm castings or liquid worm castings.
This is beneficial to plants and soil, rather than having the worms do the work in the pots.

I'm surprised it is not better known, it must be suitable for many areas of the USA ? South West Desert Areas, California. The South and Texas too.
Other Australian plants are used in Dry Gardens in some of those areas.

The usual rate for fish fertiliser, commercial product, is something like dilution of 10 ml into 1 litre water.
It depends how you made it and how concentrated it is.
Usually the fish fertiliser concentrate is not putrid, but stable due to being concentrated and low water content.
Organic fertilisers certainly can burn, just not as easily as more concentrated fertilisers.
There is no harm in applying at a lower rate more frequently. You are still delivering the same nutrients.
Also you're adding active microbes and sludge which can block the soil pore space.
There was a compost tea thread here earlier.
and here

Hi Aiptasia, I think most everyone here would agree with you and Dr Campbell, everything said is correct.
However Citrus seed propagation is further complicated than that.

"If the seed is polyembryonic, i.e. has many embryos, it will come true. I asked what it would look like if it were polyembryonic. Carl said that the various embryos would be convoluted upon each other. If it is mono-embryonic there will be one embryo with two distinct cotyledons. Almost any sweet orange will come true from seed, as well"

Polyembryonic Citrus are the most useful types for Citrus rootstocks, basically they are 90 to 99 % clonal rootstocks.
And yet it is common practice to rouge out off types from the rootstocks before grafting. Mostly these are unusual looking versions of the rootstock type.
Within the Polyembryonic embryo there is often a mono embryonic embryo, that can also develop into a non clonal plant.

Some Mono embryonic Citrus varieties types can be highly true to type, Some can be highly variable.
On top of that there is the possibility of cross pollination with another Citrus. That throws another level of complication into the mix.

"Almost any sweet orange will come true from seed, as well" 
Yes they will produce a sweet orange tree, in fact uniform enough to be used as rootstocks for other Citrus.
On the other hand there are hundreds of known Sweet Orange varieties, many from years ago and all raised from seed.
All distinct enough in fruit or growth to be separated.

Further to all that is the Ploidy situation. Plants can still function if their total Chromosome numbers are increased.
Triploid and Tetraploid Citrus types are common. Even Haploid plants are known to grow.
Triploid plants can be sterile but occasionally produce unique diploid seedlings.
Also the DNA information in the Chromosomes of living things is not totally fixed. It can change, mutate or double, swap places to other matching Chromosomes.
That can lead to subtle to major changes in seedlings.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Blueberries in warmer climates
« on: August 29, 2022, 10:16:52 AM »
There is a big area of Blueberries in Subtropical NSW , Coffs Harbour area. This was previously a major Banana growing area.
I think they mainly grow Southern Highbush varieties.
"These low chill varieties are specially bred for heat tolerance and low winter chilling. They produce unique foliage, bloom and plant characteristics to that of the Northern Highbush. Southern Highbush varieties require between 250-600 chill hours and do not survive frosts. Plants live around 10 years."
Not sure how well that area matches yours ? Probably has subtropical summers but some colder winter nights ?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Avocado Container Size
« on: August 29, 2022, 06:01:59 AM »
Avocados in Australia are most often propagated in taller narrow pots or bags. This improves drainage and air in pore space in the pot overall, and more so in the root zone.
These type of bags, 7 litre tall or even 9 litre, same diameter are common.
Tall pots of similar shape might be useful, compared to more squat pots.
If the exact same pot mix is used in a squat pot and a tall pot, the drainage and air pore space ( air filed porosity ) will be better in the tall pot.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Temperature
« on: August 29, 2022, 05:44:14 AM »
Cheers, Millet.
Fingerlimes are most common as understory trees in rainforest.
It is cooler under the shade, than a few metres away in exposed sunshine on the road or property.
Often Fingerlime trees can be found in open cow pastures or exposed on fences.
There they resemble large prickle bushes/tumbleweeds, a mass of small leaves and spines.
Rather different to the straggling tall bushes or trees seen in the rainforest.

Pagnr, it is still there, but probably not for long. It just fruited for the first time last year.

Have you thought of growing next generation seedlings from it, might assort to something better.

"This is what I read from a professor at U.F.. That most of the sweet style citrus will grow true from seed with few exceptions"
Seed introduction of Citrus cultivars has been the past common practice due to either difficulty or restrictions of moving budwood in the past due to disease or logistics.
Just go through the UC Citrus collection accessions notes, and you will see very many of the varieties were seed introductions.
Personally I wouldn't say "with few exceptions". It is reasonably reliable, but it won't work for some hybrid cultivars. Many Mono embryonic types might be close enough, but often will be too variable or a mix of both.

"Literally no serious grower like a commercial operation none of them grow from seed."
It is still done in other countries, i.e. tropical were diseases knock over trees fast.
The main reason Citrus are grafted, not seed grown is probably the long time to first flowering from seed.
Of course all new Citrus cultivars have been bred and grown from seed, the duds discarded.

The only failure I've ever had was Persian Lime--the fruits priduced were not sour or juicy and had no lime flavour.

Do you still have that one Galatians 522, still sounds interesting.
One of my projects has been collecting Tahiti Lime seeds. Got a few interesting plants but no fruit yet.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Decent germination of "large fruited Poncirus"
« on: August 28, 2022, 06:53:26 AM »
—Poncirus trifoliata 'Large Fruited'. (20) PONC-4L. Packet: $2.50
Seed stored moist and refrigerated.
A variety with large fruits to 3 - 4" wide. Probable hybrid origin. Germinates in 3 - 8 weeks, needs darkness.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Propper tree for potted Citrus
« on: August 27, 2022, 07:28:37 PM »
I found Myer Lemons quite variable from seed, some seedlings look like limes, some like Citrons. You won't get true Myer Lemons from seed.
They are grown from cuttings, which might be successful in pots with the right care.
Lemons are more true from seed, but could take a while to fruit from seed.
Another option is buy Citrus rootstock seed, and bud / graft propagate scions from your purchased grafted plants.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Temperature
« on: August 27, 2022, 05:15:17 PM »
Thats a tough question.
Wild Finger limes grow from Ballina on the coast in NSW, up to the Gold Coast area in QLD. That is about 115 km.
Not sure where the northern border of their range is, but sure they stop before Brisbane.
( C. australis the Round Lime or Dooja grows around Brisbane and a bit further north, again about 100 km plus ).
Finger Limes occur on the coast, where it is hotter, and well up into the Border Ranges into the cool mountain forests.
Mt Tamborine is considered a summer escape from the coastal summer weather, and is well known for Finger Limes.
If You go higher up to O'reilleys or Green Mountain, 900m elevation, it is much cooler and plenty of Finger Limes up there.
Higher up there are remnant Antarctic Forest tree species, and I did see a few Finger Limes seedlings up there too.
As for temperatures, if you consider the NSW coast area around Byron Bay, inland to Lismore, about in the middle of the Finger Lime area,
the December Jan average is like 30'c day and 20'c night. It is quite a rainy humid area, so that drops the temp compared to inland.
I think the temp around that area got well into the high 30's at times.
Again it is a lot cooler in the higher areas.
Mt Tambourine averages 25'c day 16 'c night, and that his lower down than O'reilleys etc.
Finger Limes have been successfully grown in hotter areas in Australia, in the high 30's to 40's C range, with irrigation as per other Citrus.
I think the night temp is as important as the day temp, I noticed some of my FL plants flush better during warm night spells.

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