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Messages - Galatians522

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Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Meyer lemon
« on: December 02, 2022, 10:23:04 PM »
Meyer lemon is thought to be a hybrid of lemon and orange. It will likely be no more hardy than a sweet orange.

The Ichang Lemon was also brought to the US by Frank Meyer but is far more cold hardy with reports of being hardy 15 Fahrenheit (-9 celsius) or even colder. It would likely be far easier to grow in your location and might be worth investigating. I havenot tasted one, but it is reported to be very acceptable as a lemon substitute. Don't confuse it with the Ichang Papeda (one of its parents) which is virtually inedible but is reported to be the most cold hardy evergreen citrus.

Maintaining sufficient Phosphorous is especially important to helping plants fight off fungus. We noticed a marked improvement in plant health when we started using Mono Potassium Phosphate on our Blueberries. Its a non-organic water soluble powder like miracle grow (only it has no nitrogen). Sulfur (microthiol disperss specifically) has seemed to help with powdery mildew on mango and can be labeled organic. My Dad likes Oxidate (which is also labeled organic I believe). We also used Aliette once when we had a bad outbreak of stem blight in our blueberries. As I recall, it stopped it dead in its tracks. Make sure to rotate fungicides whatever you do to prevent build up of resistance. It is also good to apply microrizae after fungicide applications.

A number of citrus should survive for you. Kumquat, Satsuma mandarin, and Calamondin to mention a few. Mulberries, Chinese by Jujube, sugarcane, and Cherry of the Rio Grande are some others that might work. Its not a fruit, but I think pecan might grow well for you if you could keep it well watered. If I were in Greece, I would also be growing grapes.

I would say no to Cherry of Rio Grande unless its potted. For me when the temp drops to the low 30s it will die back to the roots and is stupidly slow to grow back, as in years.

Strange, mine has survived into the mid 20s with no damage. They are reported hardy to 20 or even a little lower. Maybe the die-back was un-related to the cold? Or possibly there was an underlying issue? I have heard that they suffer from a strange disorder in Florida that causes them to die back. Mine has grown fine--it just doesn't produce much fruit. I probably should have gotten a grafted tree instead of a seedling.

Wow! That is really neat! Not many people know it, but there are reports that the similar tap root on our native live oak seedlings are edible. I have eaten them in small quantities and was surprised that the root was not woody if eaten in the first spring/summer after sprouting. They kindof remind me of tiny carot shaped beets.

Tropical Vegetables and Other Edibles / Re: Best Chewing Sugarcane
« on: December 02, 2022, 10:36:16 AM »
Blue Ribbon was a nice chewing cane in my experience, by the way.

Tropical Vegetables and Other Edibles / Re: Best Chewing Sugarcane
« on: December 02, 2022, 10:15:28 AM »
One of my favorites for chewing is the Home Green. It is the preferd kind for chewing among Hispanics. The fibers are almost as soft as the Asian Black that I grow, but they stick together better, and the bottom of the cane does not dry out as fast. Jamaicans prefer the Jamaican Striped cane (which they call Red Stripe). They say it is the best, but I have not had the pleasure of trying it.

Regarding Blue Ribbon cane, I have eaten it but I have not grown it. I had the same question as you, and here is what I concluded from my research. It appears to be the same or very similar to the Lousianna Purple (aka Georgia Red, Florida Red, Home Purple) that I grow. There is a lot of confusion about exact cane identification due to several reasons. First, cane can be very difficult to properly ID and it takes more than just the stalk in most cases. Next, cane has been grown over such a wide range for so long that the same varieties have developed many regional names (and in some cases minor mutations). Adding to the confusion is the fact that all of the striped (ribbon) canes are merely color variants of a solid color type (similar to varigation). For example, Purple Ribbon is the striped version of Lousianna Purple. Similar to varigated plants, the solid color reversion tends to be  a slightly stronger grower and if special care is not taken will out grow and replace the striped kind over time (especially under adverse conditions). However, the variety won't be lost forever because it can revert back and pop up in a solid color stand. That made everything just as clear as mud, I am sure.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Syzygium australe Fruit Report
« on: December 01, 2022, 07:00:05 PM »
The fruit is quite nice, but also small. It is similar to other Syzygium fruit like Rose Apple or Malay Apple, maybe not as stand out as either, but with qualities of both.
Same for Syzygium paniculatum, which is a bit more airy and floral than australe. Oleosum is also similar to paniculatum.
The standout for small fruited Australian Syzygiums is probably Riberry, Syzygium leuhmannii.

Very interesting. I wonder why we get some junk species here and not the really good ones?

Another thing I do for bio-char is to just plant in my previous burn pit (no need to shovel and haul the ash and char). I think there are other benefits to that as well. For example, I have driven through a lot of groves over the years and have noticed that orange trees planted where burn piles had been grow 50% faster. I think part of the reason for that is that the heat from the fire kills the nematodes.

Che is another one that comes to mind.

A number of citrus should survive for you. Kumquat, Satsuma mandarin, and Calamondin to mention a few. Mulberries, Chinese by Jujube, sugarcane, and Cherry of the Rio Grande are some others that might work. Its not a fruit, but I think pecan might grow well for you if you could keep it well watered. If I were in Greece, I would also be growing grapes.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: best type of prickly pear to grow in texas?
« on: November 30, 2022, 03:31:30 PM »
Thank you! I've had prickly pear but never the pads, how would you describe the taste? I read that they taste like a 'tart vegetable' and can't really wrap my mind around that  :D

The fresh ones I've eaten have a green bean/bell pepperish flavor with the texture of overcooked okra. The pickled kind was sour and not slimy.

Diospyros lotus is compatible with all astrigent D.kaki and with  non-astringent D.kaki -JIRO, but generally speaking D.lotus is incompatible with pcna type kaki. The incompatibility can be overcome by using an astringent type kaki as interstock.

Very interesting

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Central Florida Food Forest planning ideas
« on: November 30, 2022, 01:28:25 PM »
Regarding chill requirement for Mayhaw, I dug up an old Mayhaw article out of my file. It was originally published in the May 1989 edition of the National Gardening Magazine. It is a paper copy, and I don't have time to type the whole thing. So I will hit the highlights. "Because the trees require a minimum of 200 chilling hours, they won't produce fruit in areas south of zone 9." That is actually great news for everyone on this thread, since we are talking about zone 9! Also of interest in the article is the tree's extreme tollerence to wet conditions, its adaptiation to shaded conditions as an understory tree, hardiness below 0 (even negative teens and twenties reported!), and the use of Parsley Haw (Crataegus marshalii) as a semi-dwarfing rootstock (this might impact flood tolerance).

According to the florida plant atlas, Parsley Haw is native at least as far south as Polk County. As Tropheus mentioned earlier, this is likely not the southern end of its range, just the furthest south that a scientist has collected an herbarium specimen. I think this holds exciting possibilities for us in zone 9.

Thank you for posting Stela. I have watched a number of their youtube tastings, but didn't realize that they had a nursery with available plants.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Fruit Trees with high ornamental value
« on: November 29, 2022, 06:15:26 PM »
My contorted mulberry is really unusual. This year it finally took off and put out allot of new growth.
Every Winter it loses all its leaves and the contorted branching is exposed.
In the Spring when it flushes it has huge green leaves and looks healthy
After Hurricane Ian this year allot of the branches were damaged and I pruned
the tree and set up about 10 to root. So far 90% are pushing growth.

Our contorted never produced fruit. Does yours fruit?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Central Florida Food Forest planning ideas
« on: November 29, 2022, 05:07:18 PM »
I do not have any experience with Mayhaw or Ogechee tupelo other than what I have read. I have always wondered if they would fruit here and think people should try them. I often see other native, temperate trees that aren't suposed to be this far south. Tulip poplar, Silver Maple, Sawtooth Oak, Red Bud, Swamp White Oak, and I hear that there are some native hawthorns that do make it down into northern Central Florida (that might make good rootstock for Mayhaw). There were some old selections that were suposed to be low chill (Superberry?)~300 hrs as I recall. I am guessing that its actually susceptibility to rust fungus that limits their range more than chill.

The only tupelo I have tasted so far (other than the honey) is the black. It is the only one native this far south. The berries I tried were about as bitter as grapefruit peel, although I hear that they can be pretty nice when cooked with sugar. Ogeechee is the one people purposely try to grow. People use the sour fruits as a lime substitute and the flowers make excellent honey (to sweeten the fruits with? Lol!). The map I looked at shows that it is native about as far south as Gainesville. The Black is a tough and long lived tree, I wonder if it would be possible to graft Ogeechee to it to give it a better chance this far south. Sorry I can't be more help.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Central Florida Food Forest planning ideas
« on: November 29, 2022, 04:21:23 PM »
The article link doesn't seem to have posted above if you have a chance to add.

Oops! I'm sorry about that I will make sure to add it to the post above.

Good quality abiu. Taste so good, I can eat like 2 kilos at once, and I'm not even a big fruit eater despite being here :). Most importantly in tropics they produce 3-4 times a year at random times, loaded trees.

Agree on Dabai as well. However, harvest is a problem. Trees are very tall, my first branch is like at 18 feet high, and than crown. So, basically we eat only dropped fruits. My tree looks exactly like first one in this video.  Basically you have to be experienced coconut tree climber in order to get fresh fruits.

I had to look up dabai. I have eaten canary nut before and thought it was good. What does the fruit taste like?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Central Florida Food Forest planning ideas
« on: November 29, 2022, 12:20:06 PM »
I read this article a long time ago and was remindied about it while I was thinking about another thread. Its not a food forrest per say. But, this guy is growing some really neat stuff on a place very similar to your property. I'm thinking that the persimmkn from New Hampshire must be one of the improved American types. The one from Russia is probably Nikita's Gift or Rosayanka (both hybrids of Asian with American).

I think you've got a tentative yes on this. I've heard reports that Black sapote will graft to American.

And this article has a picture of a Texas persimmon that appears to be grafted to an Asian persimmon.

Its well known that American and Asian are compatible. So, I would tentatively say that your two are compatible (although there is still a chance that an interstock might be needed). Actually, testing for graft compatibility is the first step in hybridization. If a plant won't graft, chances for a successful cross (without embryo rescue technology) become very slim. I would go for it! Please update this thread with your results.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Jack Bean for Nematodes
« on: November 26, 2022, 10:28:59 PM »
I hardly ever pull out jack beans because I'm seeking them as nitrogen fixers but am wondering if what you are seeing might be the nodulation rather than galls?

I had a large block that I had planted and noticed a few plants in decline. When I pulled them up, it appeared that there was galling within the root as opposed to on the root as I would have anticipated with nodulation (I did observe some of what I took to be nodulation as well). I ended up pulling all of them out after harvesting a good number of pods and noticed that the majority of the pods were produced by the plants showing little to no galling. Maybe I just had some susceptible specimines in my "landrace?" What do you think?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dream Cherimoya
« on: November 26, 2022, 10:12:58 PM »
Or also "Dreamoya" as a recommendation lol. Another Dream whether it's annona, atemoya, cherimoya would probably be a bit confusing in the long run.  In addition, seems more than a few experts has confirm that Dream was a hijacked Arka Sahan that got renamed.
It was an unsubstantiated allegation, based on appearance only, but those who knew the late Wayne Clifton considered him a person of integrity so his story of the origin of the fruit was very likely true.  I think he deserves the respect.

I agree 100%. In all of this no one has ever elucidated why Wayne would have lied about the origin of his tree. He worked for the USDA and was fully familiar with what was needed to import propagation material. Actually, logic indicates that it would have been counter productive for him to lie. What would you rather buy, the top selection from a large scale 8 year breeding program in India (Arka Sahan) or a random seedling selection from a guy who collects fruit trees in his  +/- .50 acre back yard (Dream)? It doesn't add up. I've seen lots of people try to sell random stuff labeled as the new hot variety--I have yet to buy a tree as a random seedling only to find that it was grafted with the newest/most popular variety.

Anyway, drawing things back to the purpose of this thread. This hybrid sounds very promising. Dream is currently my favorite annona and cherimoya holds a certain mystique for those of us in Florida. I will be anxiously awaiting the results of trials here in the Sunshine State.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Jack Bean for Nematodes
« on: November 25, 2022, 06:46:05 PM »

OK please keeps updated on that investigation.

There are also some plant species that trap nematodes in their roots.

I can report after this season that the Jack Bean I am growing does form galls on the roots from nematodes. So, I am assuming that its primary effect is from the break down of its plant chemicals.

Interesting that you mention the trapping. I just read an article claiming that radish can be used to reduce nematode levels even though it is susceptible. Apparently, radishes are typically harvested so quickly (28 days) that most nematodes do not have a chance to reproduce (typical life cycle is 3-6 weeks). Upon harvest, many nematodes are removed with the radishes since it is a root crop. It got me thinking that this could be a really fast way to rid a spot of nematodes. Just grow several fast crops of radish, solarize the harvest in bags, and then compost. This could probably be done with any number of crops as long as they were pulled up by the roots in three weeks time or so.

Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: 2022 PayPal taxes
« on: November 25, 2022, 05:26:42 PM »
New simplified tax form from the IRS:

Line 1: How much did you make last year?
Line 2a: (for filers not using line 2b) Send it in.
Line 2b: Do you have anything left? Send that, too.

Me: >:(  :o   ::)  :-X  :'(

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Central Florida Food Forest planning ideas
« on: November 25, 2022, 03:46:58 PM »
I've heard good things about Eliott. It is a type 2. I have also read that Amling is a good type 1, but I have not grown it. My Dad had a Stewart and a Desireable. The Desireable died and the Stewart puts out half a dozen nuts a year (which the squirrels get) because it doesn't get good pollination. There is a row of pecans a few miles from my house that is probably over 50 yeaes old. They do set a good number of pecan every other year (which is typical for pecans). I think they are seedlings since that was customary back then. Based on what I saw in North Florida this year, I think  we actually have less disease in Central Florida. Maybe its because we have a drier spring and there are fewer pecan trees around to harbor the diseases? I know that is how it is with brown rot on plums.

Speaking of plums, I have heard that mexican plum makes a good rootstock for peaches. Sounds like its self infertile (which is true of all wild plums I believe). Scarlet Beauty is partly self-fertile. Its the only low chill plum I know of that is. All the UF plums need cross pollination. I am trying to grow Guthrie which is a chickisaw type that was discovered in Florida that is suposed to be really tasty. It is reported to need 300 hrs, but I am banking that it will fruit with less. I only get about 150-200. I got it from Mail Order Natives.

I'd encourage you to try seedling mangoes from poly seeds. I have had very good success with growing poly seeds out with good fruit and if you get stumped in a freeze there is a good chance that it will come back.

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