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Messages - Galatians522

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Sugar Cane In Cold Growing Zone
« on: November 22, 2022, 10:47:10 AM »
Those are beautiful canes Janet. What are the varieties?

Plums are big in Taiwan, too. Aren't they? I think there are several nice releases from USDA in Byron and also from Auburn University that would do well in your location. I have been very interested in the AU Cherry plum, but it requires more chill than we get here. Along the same lines as plum, Ume would probably be hardy in your zone. For spices, maybe she could grow ginger, galangal, and tumeric. They would just need to be dug after the first frost and stored in the garage for planting again in spring.

What about Chinese Jujube? She would likely have been familiar with the Thai kind. Most people consider the Chinese type better.

It's funny that you say this, she was talking about how she got a bunch of jujube seeds and that's what prompted me to make this thread!

Great! The Thai/Indian one won't be hardy in zone 7, but the Chinese kind should be. One down side is that the Chinese kind puts out root suckers from what I hear. It might be worth getting a grafted tree, though. I believe that Lousiana State University had a breeding program for Chinese Jujube at one point and might have some information on varieties.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: When to graft annona?
« on: November 21, 2022, 09:04:40 PM »
Very nice! I like T-bud but have never had success with annona and only 1 take with mango. I will need to give your technique a try.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: When to graft annona?
« on: November 21, 2022, 12:36:36 PM »
Fall is a great time to graft.
Iím still grafting, but I donít use cleft graft at this time.

3 grafts on this 8 months old seedling.
Iím using inverted T-budding with nurse leaf.
The rootstock continues to grow while the grafts heal.
March 1st Iíll trim the rootstock and cut off the nurse leaf to force the grafts to push.

On bigger rootstock I make 5 grafts.
You should try it.
Worst case you graft again in spring

Can you expound on your inverted T with nurse leaf? I havr not had success budding atemoya.

Are American Persimmon fruit astringent ?  The fruit is not seen much in Australia.

I can verify that all American types are astringent. Some American persimmons are less astringent than others. People who favor American persimmons say the Asian types are bland in comparison.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Sugar Cane In Cold Growing Zone
« on: November 21, 2022, 10:05:25 AM »
I just realized that I forgot to post the link I talked about in my post above. I have added it now.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Sugar Cane In Cold Growing Zone
« on: November 20, 2022, 09:53:31 PM »
Here is an old book from the USDA about growing sugarcane for syrup. It has a lot of great information for anyone growing cane. Page 12 has a map showing the regions where cane was historically grown commercially for syrup. It is roughly from the very southern end of Arkansas across central Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia to the point where coastal  South and North Carolina meet.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Citrus macrophylla
« on: November 18, 2022, 08:15:43 PM »
I found one of these in an abandoned grove a few years back. I suspected this was what it was. Thanks for the positive Id.

Sour cherries are really good and you can't buy them at the store.  They're still sweet enough to eat fresh.

I love the flavor of pie cherries. Have you ever had a Duke cherry? They are a hybrid between sweet and pie cherries. I always imagined that they would be really good.

first one of mine dropped, so I guess they are ripe. 

I suspect this crop is undersized as the ones I've seen in pictures looked bigger.  It tasted good but was pretty seedy, hoping next year's crop is larger fruit and higher flesh ratio.

Yah, based on the seed count that should have been a way bigger fruit. Maybe the tree was small or was holding too many fruits. Flavor is not typically as good on seedy fruits like that.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Help ID Persimmon Variety
« on: November 18, 2022, 08:04:02 PM »
Galatians522, your fruits are large. The ones on my shoots are smaller, looks clean but probably half the size of your fruits.

I cut one and tried it today, taste is getting better, getting a little sweet, just slightly astringent flavor. I will need to wait until it gets soft and try it again. I still have about a dozen fruits on my tree so I will eat some in another week.

You sure that's an American? I have never seen an American with that shape of seed cavity. Could you take picture next to a quarter? To be honest if it ripens sweet that may be worth cloning.

I am no authority on the difference between species. But it is my understanding that American persimmons that get pollinated by Asian are almost always seedless (and vice versa) because of different chromisome levels. I have seen some American fruits that were that general shape. If the rootstock is American it will eventually put out rootsuckers (sometimes at a fair distance from the tree). I don't think Asian rootstocks do that. Often the root suckers are mistaken for seedlings.

I have tried home made Banana wine, Mango Wine, Jaboticaba wine, others too on the same night, but the fruit varieties a bit hazy as the last bottles came out.
Don't forget Japanese Umeshu from green picked Ume plums.
Davidsonia plums can produce a dry red wine.
Gin is turning up in Australia based on Bush botanicals including wild Citrus.
Apples can be fermented for home brew Scrumpy Cider, so there might be some options there with other fruit.
There are a few types of Plum wine from Eastern Europe at my Liquor store.
Distilling hard Liquor would also be an option, might have interesting characteristics.

In Florida, even owning distillation equipment without a license and inspection is highly illegal. Even for personal use or fuel production. I guess that is what comes of a long history of bootlegers making rum from sugarcane. Actually, I have it in good authority that Al Capone used to get his liquor not far from where I live whenever he was in Florida. The place was called Dynamite House (for reasons obvious to the customers shortly after purchase).

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Help ID Persimmon Variety
« on: November 17, 2022, 10:31:20 PM »

Some fruits off an American Persimmon I found in the wild that were surprisingly large. 1.5" -- 2" I call it Blue Moon.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Sugar Cane In Cold Growing Zone
« on: November 17, 2022, 10:07:44 PM »
I'm in 9b and grow lots of sugarcane. I cover the stubble with trash and dirt and have never lost any to cold. Keep in mind that there is a range of cold tollerence in sugarcane. Pure officinarium species like Asian Black (aka Badilla from Papua) are much more cold sensitive than the Indian species. Hybrids are in between.

Leaf damage after a frost from left to right. Asian Black, Home Green (old type), Indian hybrid--exact id unknown (possibly POJ)?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Help ID Persimmon Variety
« on: November 17, 2022, 09:58:48 PM »
These turned out to be the rootstock fruits, Diospyros virginiana. The fruits ripened and turned a nice orange color. I'm letting it sit on the counter until it gets a little soft and taste it.

Make sure it gets very soft. Some of the American types I have tried were still slightly astringent when they first softened to "ripe" by Asian standards.

What about Chinese Jujube? She would likely have been familiar with the Thai kind. Most people consider the Chinese type better.

Bananas make great, full flavor vinegar.
Put them in a bucket for 2 weeks, remove the fruit, then decant the liquid into bottles.  Leave the caps on the bottles loose.  With time the vinegar will clarify nicely.

Very interesting, I had not thought of bananas. Thanks!

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« on: November 16, 2022, 09:42:14 PM »
Thanks Amy.

Is there a problem with having two trees the same size next to each other, or should there only be one big tree and a couple of smaller ones?

Ideally you want 3 trees per mat. One ready to bloom, one about half grown, and one just starting. If you get too many stalks, they compete for light and nutrients and the bunches get small.

What about vinegar? Any of you brewers have a recommendation for going the next step in the process? I was thinking of using cane juice like they do in Asia.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Split atemoya fruit while on tree.
« on: November 16, 2022, 09:30:35 PM »
My experience has been that it is better to leave it open to the air. The split part sort of heals over. In Florida humidity the wound rots if it gets sealed up.

Similar to the Asunta line, is anyone working on their range of hybrids or breeding line for special traits such as the sweetest fruit, fastest-growing, (I forgot the term but) a plant that flowers early or heavily, etc.
My first hybrid to start my breeding line is Monocanthus x Undatus

If you do breed df, what tips do you have? What genetics to get into my line next? what genetics to leave out? These were just some questions I thought of just now.

What genetics do you intend to incorporate from that species? I have often pondered if there could be viable hybrids with columnar cacti. That would eliminate the need for trellising.

According to the table on the first page of this discussion, paw paw has approximately 2,000 times the annonacin content of atemoya. Presuming this was indeed the causitive factor,  I would need to consume over 600,000 lbs of atemoya pulp in 10 years to get the same effect. Put another way, that is  167 pounds a day for 10 years. I think I'm safe.

This is great news, here I was thinking being an Annona Enthusiast was a death sentence

I was a bit worried myself until I looked at the numbers and did the math. I probably ate 30 lbs of atemoya this year, but according to the numbers people posted from the study there was less annonacin in that than in one bite of paw paw. I have no concerns at this point, but I have continued to read this thread to stay educated on any new developments in the research.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Which is better, Rambutan or Longan?
« on: November 16, 2022, 02:18:50 PM »
I'm not sure if this is a fair question. 
1- Most people cannot grow rambutan because of the climate.
2- Some have not tasted fresh rambutan from the tree like longan.
3-Some have not tasted the stone free variety.

I like Rambutan because it has some acidity, like lychee and firmer texture.  If you like lychee over longan, then you most likely like rambutan over longan if you have the right rambutan.  Just my opinion.

Thanks for this, it confirms what I had thought based on what my father-in-law had said about the rambutans in Thailand.

I don't think that ice would do much. However, people who live in dry climates could potentially take advantage of evaporative cooling to create chill with a misting system. If you study wet and dry bulb charts, you can see that when the relative humidity is low there are some significant differences between the two. When the relative humidity approaches 100% there is no difference between the two (because there is no evaporation).

For example, the current temperature in Los Angeles is 62 with a dew point of 33 (40% relative humidity). If I understand the math correctly, an ideally implemented misting system under those conditions could potentially lower the temperature almost 10 degrees! That would put things in the range that could potentially create chill hours for some things (assuming the tree was in a dormant state).

By comparison, Tampa is currently 72 with a dew point of 71 (94% relative humidity). An ideally designed misting system under these conditions could potentially lower the temperature by approximately 1/3 of a degree. Which of course would be a total waste of time.

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