Author Topic: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread  (Read 33029 times)

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #150 on: April 19, 2022, 05:16:49 PM »
I have just read through most of this thread.  I am no RKN expert but from the online research I have done it appears that once RKN are in the roots of a plant there is no way to get rid of them.  The treatments people are doing to their plants will help eliminate the RKN in the soil but not the plant itself.  Here is a link to an article written by North Carolina State University professors and associates.  They are professors that specialize in Entomology (the study of insects) and plant pathology.  They are the experts in this area and according to them you can treat the soil for RKN but once it is in the roots there is no way to eliminate it from the plant.  They say this in the third paragraph of the article.  It says "Once the nematodes are inside the roots, effective treatments are not available."

https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/control-of-root-knot-nematodes-in-the-home-vegetable-garden

I would recommend everyone who obtained these trees to consider them infected until proven otherwise.  If you are going to keep the trees then grow them in pots in isolation.  Make sure you contain 100% of the water run off from watering the plant.  Make sure to disinfect hands and tools or anything else that touches the plant soil.  Once the plant is large enough take scions from it and graft them onto rootstocks.  Then solarize the original plant and soil before throwing it out.  RKN should not be taken lightly.  Once they are in your properties soil they are almost impossible to eliminate.

The picture of roots posted above by Jaboticaba45 appears to be infected with RKN.  Again I'm no expert but the sacks and knots in the roots appear to me to be RKN.

Bill

Bestday, thanks for the additional information!

We should all be extremely careful with these trees. It is best to graft these onto alternative rootstock.

Simon

K-Rimes

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #151 on: April 19, 2022, 06:51:04 PM »
I think I will try to burn the rootstocks in a hot fire when I have harvested wood from them for grafting. Just waiting for Bush2Beach to get those little 1 gal myrica californica.

Is there a "best" rootstock from the myrica selection we have determined yet? Californica appears to be most used?

Nick C

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #152 on: April 19, 2022, 06:57:04 PM »
Just got this californica delivered today. Going to graft onto it later this weekend. Just to confirm, there is literally 0% chance of contamination when grafting onto healthy rootstock correct? Sorry, my OCD is requiring me to ask that question haha




simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #153 on: April 19, 2022, 11:44:19 PM »
Well, thereís always the chance you contaminated yourself hands by lifting up the infected pot and thus getting contaminated water or soil on your hand and then if you were to place your contaminated hand in contact with the soil of your newly delivered M Californica, then yes, there is a possibility of cross contamination.

I was a microbiologist and see possibilities of cross contamination everywhere but in all reality, you have little risk of cross contamination if you use some common sense. Just keep the contaminated water and soil away from the new plant and you should be good. The RKN is not transferred via branches/scions as far as Iím aware.

Simon

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #154 on: April 20, 2022, 09:46:27 PM »
Learning some about RKN.  I was wondering if anyone found them in the first  order?

Satya

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #155 on: April 21, 2022, 08:22:55 AM »
I took out one plant from first shipment when buds started dying off. As suggested by spaugh, changed heavier foxfarm soil to very light cactus mix. Very healthy young white roots, no rot, no nematode nodules. Wonder why those buds are dying... 😕🤯🧐
« Last Edit: April 21, 2022, 08:26:05 AM by Satya »

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #156 on: April 21, 2022, 10:46:34 AM »
Satya, the buds were probably dying from the bare rooting process. They had to clip some of the roots and this probably threw off the root to shoot balance of water and nutrients.

If you re potted into new soil, you may see a second round of transplant shock when placed into the new media. If you saw new white roots, you were very close to seeing new growth. Since you just re potted, you may want to keep it in high humidity around 70-80% for about two weeks before backing down to ambient humidity.

Simon

Satya

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #157 on: April 21, 2022, 01:05:36 PM »
Thank you Simon, do you think I should put a dome over the plant? Don't want to kill it with too much care. I sprayed the plant and they're wrapped in buddy tape.
I keep them away from elements in the roofed patio, the 2nd batch was planted into very dry porous medium as suggested earlier, bark/peat/perlite mix courtesy kalan (Keith) and not watering until one inch of soil is completely dry. Did actinovate treatment a week ago. They've been doing great until one started to do the same thing as the first batch - buds drying up from top. See photos of the 2 plants from the 2nd batch.
Still haven't cracked the yangmei code, these plants are very different from everything i've been growing so far...




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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #158 on: April 21, 2022, 01:22:14 PM »
Satya, my BC did the exact same thing.  It was the first to leaf out and was looking quite good and afterwards wilted.  It looks dead from what I can tell.  The others that leafed out are doing well.

Jaboticaba45

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #159 on: April 21, 2022, 01:24:12 PM »
Satya, my BC did the exact same thing.  It was the first to leaf out and was looking quite good and afterwards wilted.  It looks dead from what I can tell.  The others that leafed out are doing well.
Same here...It had the best roots also. Maybe it has to do with something else as my other trees are looking fine (at least for now).

Satya

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #160 on: April 21, 2022, 01:24:59 PM »
Satya, my BC did the exact same thing.  It was the first to leaf out and was looking quite good and afterwards wilted.  It looks dead from what I can tell.  The others that leafed out are doing well.
  :( 😢
my biqi from first batch died, too :( i was hoping drier soil can do the trick but probably something else is the culprit...

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #161 on: April 21, 2022, 10:02:20 PM »
Thank you Simon, do you think I should put a dome over the plant? Don't want to kill it with too much care. I sprayed the plant and they're wrapped in buddy tape.
I keep them away from elements in the roofed patio, the 2nd batch was planted into very dry porous medium as suggested earlier, bark/peat/perlite mix courtesy kalan (Keith) and not watering until one inch of soil is completely dry. Did actinovate treatment a week ago. They've been doing great until one started to do the same thing as the first batch - buds drying up from top. See photos of the 2 plants from the 2nd batch.
Still haven't cracked the yangmei code, these plants are very different from everything i've been growing so far...





Hey Satya, whatís the ambient humidity where youíre at? If your tree is wrapped with Buddytape or parafilm, you should not need to spray and you donít need extra humidity because the humidity is contained from the wrapping. If new growth has popped through the film, you want some evaporation to occur. In other words, once you see some buds push through the film, you can put it in ambient humidity which I guess is relatively high in Florida.

When you use a very porous medium, be very careful that it doesnít get overly dry. The 4-1-1, 5-1-1 and gritty type mixes can dry out extremely fast. You have peat in your mix which should hold some water but when peat goes completely dry, it can actually repel water until it absorbs some more moisture.

Simon

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #162 on: April 22, 2022, 02:36:53 PM »
Simon,
April is the driest month for us so humidity is pretty low now. Soil in pots dries up very fast, too - will be watching the pots for overdrying, thank you for the tip!

Nick C

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #163 on: April 25, 2022, 10:31:18 PM »
Did some more digging into this RKN issue

This link seems pretty informative

https://www.cabi.org/isc/datasheet/33245#topathwayCauses

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #164 on: April 25, 2022, 11:35:34 PM »
Thanks for the link Nick! Thereís some good information there. For us that arenít experts in the identification of the different species of Harmful nematodes, it looks like molecular sequencing is the best way to get a positive identification but also probably the least feasible.

So far, (in my opinion) the best option is to graft onto non infected rootstocks.

Simon

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #165 on: April 26, 2022, 12:18:06 AM »
With my luck Iíd probably end up grafting onto a rootstock that was already infected haha

Hey Simon, did you treat your trees from Kens order for the RKN before planting in the ground? Any idea if that first round order with Ken had them? If so guess Iím already screwed because my trees been in the ground for months, yay...
Nate

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #166 on: April 26, 2022, 09:32:52 PM »
If it helps at all, nitrogen fixing nodules should be easily removable from the root. Apparently, if the nodule is actively fixing nitrogen it will be pink inside when cut open and green or brown if dormant. RKN damage on the other hand will not be easily removable in most cases.

spaugh

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #167 on: April 26, 2022, 10:49:41 PM »
With my luck Iíd probably end up grafting onto a rootstock that was already infected haha

Hey Simon, did you treat your trees from Kens order for the RKN before planting in the ground? Any idea if that first round order with Ken had them? If so guess Iím already screwed because my trees been in the ground for months, yay...

I put mine in the ground a long time ago, its doing fine.  Not even worth worring about at this point.  Not about to dig up the tree. 

There were some kind of nodules on the roots we thought they were nitrogen fixers at the time.  But they all fell off when the roots soaked in a bucket beforing potting.

You could get nematodes from any plants you buy at a store too right?  Or if you live in a neighborhood, your neighbors yards could have them.  They could have all kinds of crazy things going on over there...

  :)
« Last Edit: April 26, 2022, 10:52:03 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #168 on: April 26, 2022, 11:03:46 PM »
With my luck Iíd probably end up grafting onto a rootstock that was already infected haha

Hey Simon, did you treat your trees from Kens order for the RKN before planting in the ground? Any idea if that first round order with Ken had them? If so guess Iím already screwed because my trees been in the ground for months, yay...

I put mine in the ground a long time ago, its doing fine.  Not even worth worring about at this point.  Not about to dig up the tree. 

There were some kind of nodules on the roots we thought they were nitrogen fixers at the time.  But they all fell off when the roots soaked in a bucket beforing potting.

You could get nematodes from any plants you buy at a store too right?  Or if you live in a neighborhood, your neighbors yards could have them.  They could have all kinds of crazy things going on over there...

  :)

Cool. Ya man Iíve bought soooo many seedlings from tropical locales Iíd be surprised if a seedling or two over all these years didnít have one or two along the way...not gonna stress and start digging trees up either, ainít nobody got time for dat!  ;)
Nate

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #169 on: April 26, 2022, 11:12:22 PM »
Nate, this post isnt directed at you or anyone in particular.  Its just a thought for people worried about the nematodes.  Bayer makes some kind of stuff called "bayer complete insect killer" or something like that.  It kills any bugs in the soil and is systemic in the tree as well I believe.  Im not going to use it but it might work if someone was inclinded to do that.  I know someone said nothing will kill RKN but that stuff is toxic enough it may. 
« Last Edit: April 26, 2022, 11:19:19 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #170 on: April 26, 2022, 11:21:21 PM »
My tree is growing slowly but surely.  It doeant seem bother by any of the weather here, its gotten pretty hot and dry and cold and wet out in its spot fully exposed.   I fertilized it pretty hard a month or 2 ago.  Didnt seem to do much. 



Brad Spaugh

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #171 on: April 27, 2022, 12:58:12 AM »
With my luck Iíd probably end up grafting onto a rootstock that was already infected haha

Hey Simon, did you treat your trees from Kens order for the RKN before planting in the ground? Any idea if that first round order with Ken had them? If so guess Iím already screwed because my trees been in the ground for months, yay...

Hey Nate, I did treat my trees before I put them into the ground because I may have accidentally inoculated my plants with RKN from another source, thinking it was Frankia. I still think I inoculated with Frankia because of the explosive growth of my trees and the lack of RKN nodules but I treated with the Monterey Nematode Control followed by several applications of beneficial nematodes.

I inspected the root system every time I up potted and didnít see any RKN galls at all. I posted multiple pictures of my plants root systems on this forum.

If your trees are already planted into the ground, I wouldnít dig them up. You either have the RKN or you donít do you have a decision to make. Treat them in ground just to be safe or roll the dice.

RKN can have a significant impact on vegetable crops but can be unnoticeable on fruit trees unless their populations are very high.

Simon

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #172 on: April 27, 2022, 05:47:53 PM »
Late to the party for a change but did go ahead and order the Monterey Nematode Control yesterday.  Thank you, Simon.

While waiting for it to arrive, I thought I would revisit the whole male/female/seedling issue.    I am less than two miles from the ocean so except for a couple of bizarre heat waves, it has remained pretty cool here.  Only my Biqi (one female and one putative male) have leafed out and one of my An Ha females.  Everything else looks comatose.   I have to say that both  my male and female Biqi look like nice succesful grafts.  I have others, notably my An Ha male and my Late female where the grafts are absolute disasters with no signs up life above them.  But these look a lot better.  Fang, am I reading these wrong?  They are from top to bottom, female Biqi and then its graft;  male Biqi and its graft.









simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #173 on: April 27, 2022, 11:02:14 PM »
My tree is growing slowly but surely.  It doeant seem bother by any of the weather here, its gotten pretty hot and dry and cold and wet out in its spot fully exposed.   I fertilized it pretty hard a month or 2 ago.  Didnt seem to do much. 




Brad, nice growth on your tree! Looks like the buds I saw last time I visited have fully leafed out. My two original tree are both in ground now and they didnít do much until recently. Now, there are buds all over the place and I have a feeling itís going to explode with growth when it warms up.

Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #174 on: April 27, 2022, 11:03:00 PM »
My tree is growing slowly but surely.  It doeant seem bother by any of the weather here, its gotten pretty hot and dry and cold and wet out in its spot fully exposed.   I fertilized it pretty hard a month or 2 ago.  Didnt seem to do much. 




 

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