Author Topic: Mamey deficiency diagnosis in alkaline soil  (Read 690 times)

mangoba

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Mamey deficiency diagnosis in alkaline soil
« on: July 26, 2022, 12:25:49 PM »
I already lost one seedling in the same manner, leaves get yellow spots then the edges shrivel and the whole leaf dies and falls.

My soil test shows issues with micros obviously, I get very bright sun every day and the temps are hovering around 98.

I do spray micros every now and then, but unhealthy leaves seem unlikely to take up nutrients, I'm about to drench with 1/2oz Sequestrene + 1/2oz Magnesium Sulfate, otherwise I usually fertilize with super light npk, I'm also thinking of adding 10gr of high Potassium NPK. Any other leads please.
















shot

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Re: Mamey deficiency diagnosis in alkaline soil
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2022, 12:33:29 PM »
Salts?

K-Rimes

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Re: Mamey deficiency diagnosis in alkaline soil
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2022, 01:39:36 PM »
I have this problem with many tropical plants in ground and believe it is due to alkalinity and nutrient lock out. Tropical species, for the most part, seem to appreciate acidic soil conditions - something I cannot provide at my house due to being on ancient seabed that is high in calcium. My well water is extremely alkaline as well.

Check your water and soil PH. I would guess it's quite alkaline as well.

roblack

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Re: Mamey deficiency diagnosis in alkaline soil
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2022, 02:14:55 PM »
Might be roasting in the heat and sun. I would shade it a bit. My soil is nothing but alkaline and able to grow all kinds of stuff. Don't have a mamey tree though.

mangoba

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Re: Mamey deficiency diagnosis in alkaline soil
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2022, 04:15:35 PM »
Salts?

Not much really, I use about 70% rain water + 30% tap.

mangoba

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Re: Mamey deficiency diagnosis in alkaline soil
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2022, 04:16:59 PM »
I have this problem with many tropical plants in ground and believe it is due to alkalinity and nutrient lock out. Tropical species, for the most part, seem to appreciate acidic soil conditions - something I cannot provide at my house due to being on ancient seabed that is high in calcium. My well water is extremely alkaline as well.

Check your water and soil PH. I would guess it's quite alkaline as well.

I wish we could tell which nutrients are lacking... Indeed the water pH is also in the 7-8

mangoba

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Re: Mamey deficiency diagnosis in alkaline soil
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2022, 04:18:10 PM »
Might be roasting in the heat and sun. I would shade it a bit. My soil is nothing but alkaline and able to grow all kinds of stuff. Don't have a mamey tree though.

Interesting! Do you do anything special with micronutrients?

JCorte

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Re: Mamey deficiency diagnosis in alkaline soil
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2022, 04:42:05 PM »
I would give the plant some shade protection to start while itís trying to recover and not rush to add too many different fertilizers that may cause further imbalances and nutrient lock up.  If your irrigation water is alkaline and you water the leaves, the sodium chloride can concentrate on the leaves as the water dries and being in full sun stresses the plant further.  Micronutrient foliar application with good water can supply quick nutrients, but it may take a few weeks to see results.  I think low concentrations more frequently is better.

Most of my tropical plants benefit from gypsum (although my soil has plenty of calcium itís not accessible to some plants because of the alkalinity) and iron.  I use Eddha iron chelate for alkaline soils.  Often times I will add additional sulfur (gypsum contains sulfur). 

Longer term, I feed the soil biology, if you have a healthy rhizosphere, the soil microorganisms balance the pH and releases locked up minerals.  I use rock dusts, biochar, humic and fulvic acids, compost, and woodchips.  However this takes time. 

I just recently revived a green sapote and mamey I got in the mail with the above mentioned strategy.  Good luck to you!

Janet
« Last Edit: July 26, 2022, 04:46:40 PM by JCorte »

JCorte

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Re: Mamey deficiency diagnosis in alkaline soil
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2022, 04:44:10 PM »
Might be roasting in the heat and sun. I would shade it a bit. My soil is nothing but alkaline and able to grow all kinds of stuff. Don't have a mamey tree though.

I think the regular rain probably helps a lot.  I wish we got some rain during summer.

Janet

spaugh

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Re: Mamey deficiency diagnosis in alkaline soil
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2022, 04:56:47 PM »
Looks like it needs way more mulch and water and less fertilizer.   Shade cloth also.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2022, 04:58:47 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

K-Rimes

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Re: Mamey deficiency diagnosis in alkaline soil
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2022, 05:03:08 PM »
I have this problem with many tropical plants in ground and believe it is due to alkalinity and nutrient lock out. Tropical species, for the most part, seem to appreciate acidic soil conditions - something I cannot provide at my house due to being on ancient seabed that is high in calcium. My well water is extremely alkaline as well.

Check your water and soil PH. I would guess it's quite alkaline as well.

I wish we could tell which nutrients are lacking... Indeed the water pH is also in the 7-8

I think an analysis of what nutrients you have in both soil and water will be worthwhile. For me, my well is extremely high in manganese, to the point of toxicity, so that's an issue for some plants.

Agree with others that more mulch, organic matter, water, and probably shade is going to help.

mangoba

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Re: Mamey deficiency diagnosis in alkaline soil
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2022, 07:02:06 PM »
I would give the plant some shade protection to start while itís trying to recover and not rush to add too many different fertilizers that may cause further imbalances and nutrient lock up.  If your irrigation water is alkaline and you water the leaves, the sodium chloride can concentrate on the leaves as the water dries and being in full sun stresses the plant further.  Micronutrient foliar application with good water can supply quick nutrients, but it may take a few weeks to see results.  I think low concentrations more frequently is better.

Most of my tropical plants benefit from gypsum (although my soil has plenty of calcium itís not accessible to some plants because of the alkalinity) and iron.  I use Eddha iron chelate for alkaline soils.  Often times I will add additional sulfur (gypsum contains sulfur). 

Longer term, I feed the soil biology, if you have a healthy rhizosphere, the soil microorganisms balance the pH and releases locked up minerals.  I use rock dusts, biochar, humic and fulvic acids, compost, and woodchips.  However this takes time. 

I just recently revived a green sapote and mamey I got in the mail with the above mentioned strategy.  Good luck to you!

Janet

Thank you Janet, that's a very helpful advice, but I would like to mention Calcium availability and pH. As you can see from my soil test, 90% is Ca and but don't recall reading  about the effect of alkalinity on Ca availability to the roots. I have always thought about it and I have plenty of Calcium nitrate, but I haven't used any recently thinking that the soil offers plenty already.

mangoba

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Re: Mamey deficiency diagnosis in alkaline soil
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2022, 07:06:43 PM »
I have this problem with many tropical plants in ground and believe it is due to alkalinity and nutrient lock out. Tropical species, for the most part, seem to appreciate acidic soil conditions - something I cannot provide at my house due to being on ancient seabed that is high in calcium. My well water is extremely alkaline as well.

Check your water and soil PH. I would guess it's quite alkaline as well.

I wish we could tell which nutrients are lacking... Indeed the water pH is also in the 7-8

I think an analysis of what nutrients you have in both soil and water will be worthwhile. For me, my well is extremely high in manganese, to the point of toxicity, so that's an issue for some plants.

Agree with others that more mulch, organic matter, water, and probably shade is going to help.

I usually use 30% of this tap water:



+ 70% of this rain water:

The soil test is in the first post:



« Last Edit: July 26, 2022, 07:32:05 PM by mangoba »

FMfruitforest

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Re: Mamey deficiency diagnosis in alkaline soil
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2022, 05:08:33 AM »
I would Amend soil and correct ph prior to planting with soil acidifier, aim for 6-6.5ph.

JCorte

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Re: Mamey deficiency diagnosis in alkaline soil
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2022, 10:31:41 AM »
Mangoba,

I looked at my water report and my sodium and chloride levels are much higher than yours, so my comments about the high salts may not apply for you.  The first thing I would try to address for your plant is the pH, pH levels are based on a logarithmic scale so a difference of a pH 6 compared to pH 8, is 100 times more acidic.  It is more difficult to change the pH in the ground, so I keep many sensitive plants in pots until they are more mature.  In the meantime, foilar applications and shade will be helpful.

For my soil fertility, I focus on soil biology but I also incorporate William Albrecht's ratios with Calcium/ Magnesium being the key nutrients as well as  trying to supply all the micronutrients.  He has a whole book dedicated to the importance of Calcium.  There are many articles on the internet, but here's one to start.
https://www.agricology.co.uk/field/blog/base-cation-saturation-ratio-albrecht-soil-analysis-what-it-you#:~:text=The%20ideal%20percentages%20are%2068,and%2010%20%2D%2012%25%20magnesium.&text=If%20calcium%20is%20too%20high,the%20relative%20level%20of%20magnesium.

John Kempf of Advancing Eco Agriculture emphasizes the importance of sap analysis, reason being nutrient profile of your soil doesn't show if those nutrients are actually being absorbed by a plant. It is often the case that a plant will be deficient in a nutrient although soil analysis shows an abundance.  Sap analysis is expensive and I haven't had one done because I have too many different plants but would be interested if it wasn't for the cost. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg7BEJUbzWg

In my experience plant nutrition is very complex and all plants are different, so blanket recommendations are not that helpful.  Sometimes the solution may be as simple as moving the plant into some shade.  I had an ESALQ jaboticaba with pale leaves looking chlorotic that turned a deep green by just moving it under my avocado trees.  I had 2 monstera deliciosa planted in identical soil bought at the same time, in different spots in my garden with morning shade, yet one grew 3 times more vigorously under my avocado.  I recently moved the second under the avocado and it's decided to green up and send out many new leaves. 

Sorry if this makes it more complicated.  I am definitely not an expert and my plants remind me that I'm still learning even after decades of gardening.  I'm sure there are way more knowledgeable members out there to help you with your soil report.

Janet


mangoba

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Re: Mamey deficiency diagnosis in alkaline soil
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2022, 10:42:20 AM »
Thanks Janet, I have a very limited supply of rain water so I would rather add more of the tap water in my mix if possible, do you have an ideal range of sodium/chloride where most plants wouldn't complain?

JCorte

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Re: Mamey deficiency diagnosis in alkaline soil
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2022, 10:49:04 AM »
Sorry, I don't.  Seems the acid loving plants are the most sensitive and become chlorotic, so iron and micronutrient foliar sprays help.  There are other plants that thrive with the my regular tap water.  Depends on where the plant comes from and what conditions they are adapted to.  I think I remember reading that Mamey does well with additional iron in alkaline conditions.

Janet

pineislander

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Re: Mamey deficiency diagnosis in alkaline soil
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2022, 07:48:21 PM »
Looking at the soil around your plant there is scant mulch, not at all sufficient to maintain moisture or expand a root zone.
There appears to be no soil amendments like compost or organic matter compost being added at all. Building a healthy soil around the root zone of your tree may help it to grow and is one of the basic things to do even if the tree is healthy.
If this is a seed you planted, the seed has probably run out of internal energy which is pretty high due to large seed mass.
It is time to supply the seedling through its root system now.

cbss_daviefl

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Re: Mamey deficiency diagnosis in alkaline soil
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2022, 11:52:40 PM »
Your soil analysis results are showing a few problems.  There is very little organic matter. As others stated, you need lots of organic matter. Add wood chip mulch to cover the root zone and mulch to a meter beyond the canopy 10 to 15 cm thick. The high ph needs to be reduced by adding elemental sulfur granules.  Apply with a broacast spreader used for lawn fertilizer.  Apply around 2kg per 25 square meters. Boron, zinc, and manganese are all very low. Use a quality fertilizer with a good blend of micronutrients. This will take many years to correct. I also think shade and wind protection would be helpful.
Brandon

 

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