Jaboticaba salt/ph: restinga doing better than grimals?

[CeeJey]

Okay, so grimals are often mentioned as being particularly salt/ph tolerant for jaboticaba, but so far out of my seedlings, my restinga seedlings seem to be thriving the most in the local less-than-ideal conditions. I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere; anybody else have similar experience with restinga?

EDIT: Some of the black pearls also doing better than the grimals; although oddly the winner for "most tolerant plinia" award in this house goes to the mulchi and giant mulchi I bought on a whim. Slow growing but not a hint of salt burn so far.

[elouicious]

good to know!

any pics?

worth noting that many Jabo/Plinia varieties are newer and IIRC Grimal is pretty old- so it may just be that many of these have not been trialed yet

[CeeJey]

good to know!

any pics?

Absolutely.

A pair of tennine-month-old grimals, not a lot of salt damage compared to how sabaras look on our local water (burnt) but some:


Restinga of the same age:


And for comparison, an Otto Anderson that's having a bit more trouble than either (but still not as much as sabara):


Fwiw these are all in the same mix (I think the Otto got moved to slightly more acidic soil actually) getting the same treatment, and they're all receiving tap water that HAS been filtered through a Berkey, however that filtered water is STILL as hard as most other places' raw tap water post-filter (our water comes from the aptly named "Salt River"; I don't know why I'm trying to grow plinia and eugenia out here but it's certainly providing some data). They've gotten a bit of supplemental foilar iron but I haven't started them on a dedicated foilar feeding program yet, I don't want to accidentally burn them when they're so young.

Meanwhile here's a seven-month-old mulchi that just dgaf and drinks straight from the salty, salty tap:

worth noting that many Jabo/Plinia varieties are newer and IIRC Grimal is pretty old- so it may just be that many of these have not been trialed yet

Ah gotcha, I'm pretty new to jaboticaba specifically so I'm missing some of the varietal history.


Edit: The sabaras, whites, Frankie's dwarves that I got from Shiloh, plus a few other related species I've had to move onto the "miracle fruit protocol" of nearly pure peat moss and distilled water; for cost reasons I'm working on weaning those back onto filtered crapwater and am seriously considering buying a second Berkey just to double-filter for the jaboticaba specifically. Bigger reds and sabaras, I've had do passably okay outside on pure tap water so I know it's possible if they can get to a certain tolerance.

2Edit: I think the touchiest I've dealt with so far is guaporetti/plinia rivularis, I don't think my surviving pair are ever going to be off distilled/heavily filtered water.

[elouicious]

great pics that illustrate the point well-

have you ever done a proper water test?

What about acidification post-filter?

[shpaz]

Can confirm

I purchased both grimal and restinga seeds, in addition to other plinia seeds including Escarlate and Sabara. Our tap water parameters are ~450 TDS, 8.6-8.8 PH.

All of the plinia seedlings are suffering. However restinga is being the most tolerant. They seem less bothered by the high PH than the rest by a good margin.

[FMfruitforest]

Water ph is around 8 here restinga, grimal and Cambucas have been tolerant of it

[CeeJey]

great pics that illustrate the point well-

have you ever done a proper water test?

What about acidification post-filter?

Water pre-filter is about 8.7-8.8 PH, post-filter about 8.2-8.5. I'm slowly trying to inch my way into acidifying the water but am being careful after accidentally nearly killing a grimal seedling by going too hard in an experiment (I gave it a diluted version of the low-PH coffee water that the miracle fruit gets periodically, and it did not like that.). I might try adjusting the water to a 6-7 on some of the Sabaras/reds and grimals and see if they improve; it'd be nice to get a routine down for these similar to some of the other touchy plants.

I might try that for some of my burned eugenia as well, since at the rate some of them are going, they aren't going to make it to their birthday anyway.

EDIT: I haven't had the TDS tested at this location yet, but local municipal water testing puts on the high end of solids depending on whether the water is coming from SoCal or the River (that's an additional layer of screwy b.s., the composition can change here depending on where they're pulling the water). I should spring for that test.

Water ph is around 8 here restinga, grimal and Cambucas have been tolerant of it

A lot of my cambuca seedlings didn't take to the water here, but the two that did are like the mulchi and don't care at all about it.

[K-Rimes]

Grimal and Restinga are very tolerant of my high PH water. Sabara a little less. Red and white really don't like it. Cambuca doesn't either.

I am really happy to have been able to stop acidifying water for a lot of my jabo collection. They grow faster and more lush when I acidify but it's a big PITA so I stopped doing it and have been trying to handle it just with sulphur pellets.

If you're at 8.7, pretty similar to me, you can use 1-2ml of Advanced Nutrients phosphoric acid for for 2.5 gallons of water and you'll be fine. I was using 5ml+ for blueberries and miracle fruit to get to my target PH on those. I have since given up on those really low ph plants because it's too hard to reliably nail the PH.

[CeeJey]

Grimal and Restinga are very tolerant of my high PH water. Sabara a little less. Red and white really don't like it. Cambuca doesn't either.

I am really happy to have been able to stop acidifying water for a lot of my jabo collection. They grow faster and more lush when I acidify but it's a big PITA so I stopped doing it and have been trying to handle it just with sulphur pellets.  (Edit: Also, a couple of my cambuca are doing fine with the water but it killed some of them).

If you're at 8.7, pretty similar to me, you can use 1-2ml of Advanced Nutrients phosphoric acid for for 2.5 gallons of water and you'll be fine. I was using 5ml+ for blueberries and miracle fruit to get to my target PH on those. I have since given up on those really low ph plants because it's too hard to reliably nail the PH.

Interesting. My sabaras like the local water less than the reds and whites, oddly. I wonder what the difference there is.

I'll give the phosphoric acid a shot, and I appreciate the tip.

Just a data point re miracle fruit: I have a couple of them that I give distilled water to because I started following Logees advice sheet on those a couple years ago (50/50 peat and pearlite, distilled or rainwater). They do fine on that for me, fruit every month or two, and collectively drink less than a gallon a week as long as the peat stays moist, so I'm willing to eat the mild cost. I'll also occasionally re-boil saved coffee grounds in distilled water and give them a root soak in that for a while and they seem to like that. They're actually my least fussy plants now that the routine is down.

EDIT: Probably this could be it's own thread, but about fifty percent of Eugenia species I try also HATE the water here, and I never know which ones it will be.