Xie Shan Satsuma Trees

[Millet]

For those of you who are looking for a Xie Shan Satsuma tree,  Harris Citrus of Florida now has them in stock.  Xie Shan is among the very best tasting citrus variety.  It is a September/October early maturing cultivar.  - Millet

 http://www.harriscitrus.com/store/

[buddinman]

XIE Shan anad Miyagawa are my choice for 2 of the best satsumas. The Louisiana Early, Early St. Anne, Brown Select are also very good. Several of the China varieties are also good.

[brian]

I didn't see Xie Shan on the website so I called Ruth and she said it must be a mistake and she will add it back into the system this afternoon. 

Thanks for the notice, Millet.

[robbyhernz]

I've had xie shan on my wish list for 2 years!! Unfortunately, I can't find it anywhere in Arizona!

Do xie shan satsuma grow true to seed? If so, maybe I could plant some since i can't import any citrus into AZ.

[brian]

I still don't see Xie Shan on the site... I'll have to call back again

[Millet]

Brain, I just today ordered two seedless marsh grapefruit trees from Anna at Brite Leaf.  Their next shipping date is June 10th. - Millet

[brian]

I'm not sure what you are getting at here, Millet.  Does Brite Leaf also carry Xie Shan?

[Millet]

Brian, no Brite Leaf does not offer Xie Shan.  Sorry for the confusion. - Millet

[robbyhernz]

Do xie shan's grow true from seed?

[Millet]

Robby, yes Xie Shan Grows true from seed.  I realize that Arizona, along with all of the other citrus growing states, do not allow citrus trees to be shipped into their states. The reason for this is to protect the citrus industry in those states from imported citrus diseases. Currently Florida citrus nurseries are now being allowed once again, to ship their trees intrastate. The reason for this change in the government's policy, is because before a tree leaves Florida for another state, the tree is inspected by a USDA agent, and is certified  to be free of all diseases. The USDA certifies that the trees have a clean bill of health.  These trees are therefore not  a threat, nor present any danger to the citrus industries operating in Arizona, California, Florida,Texas, or any other citrus producing region.  An exception should be given for these USDA certified trees, and citizens living in the citrus growing states should be allowed to purchase the trees from Florida nurseries, and be able to have them shipped to their destination. - Millet

[robbyhernz]

I agree that exemptions should be given Millet.

So if i were to grow a Xie-Shan from seed, what rootstock should I transfer it to and how long would I have to grow the original seeds before transferring?

[bsbullie]

Boy, sure glad they changed their laws.  I am so confident these USDA inspectors no what g hey are doing and are keeping things safe...   

[Millet]

Robby, since Xie Shan is a Satsuma I would just grow the tree from seed on its own roots. A well grown Satsuma should produce fruit in 3 to 5 years, even some what faster if the tree was lighted and root heated during the winter. - Milleet- Millet

[robbyhernz]

3-5 year is not bad at all!!!!

Excellent news! Obtaining seeds should be much easier than getting a tree in AZ. Besides, growing seeds is very entertaining to me. A Mexican Lime I grew from seed 2 years ago just gave me the 1st lime.

Thanks for all your info!

[Yorgos]

Just cleft grafted xie shan onto a branch of my owari satsuma about 8 weeks ago.  The bud stick is green and the union has healed but the buds on the graft have not grown. I notched about an inch up from the graft to see if that would force it but nothing yet. There are active growing branches above this graft with fruit so I wonder if that is inhibiting the buds from breaking out.

[Millet]

Yorgos, if the bud stick is still green and the union has healed, your stick should flush new growth.  Give the stick time and you will see it flush - Millet

[brian]

Harris finally updated their inventory and I ordered a Xie Shan.  I'll post a picture when it arrives.

[Millet]

Brian, good thing come to those who wate - Millet

[brian]

Xie Shan arrived today.   There were some delays because Harris only seems to have biweekly USDA inspections that are required for their shipments.  The tree looks very healthy and arrived undamaged.



I was originally planning on getting two but I am starting to worry that I am expanding my collection too quickly... I need to be sure I can care for everything efficiently over the winter.

[Darkman]

Hi all,

I wanted to drag this topic up to offer and ask for Xie Shan growers comments on how it has done for them.  I have been growing Xie Shan since 2012. It has proven to be extremely cold hardy enduring lows of 18 several times,with minimal damage and no cold protection. All four trees have developed into a large mounding tree about 10 feet tall and slightly wider. It sets large loads of fruit however the fruit is puffy, insipid and unsaleable. Yesterday February 27th, 2018 I attended the Florida Panhandle Satsuma Workshop given by IFAS and the University of Florida. Not many growers are growing Xie Shan and those that are says it takes 8 - 10 years to mature and produce quality fruit. Many have bull dozed their plantings and replaced them with other varieties.

So I'm asking yall what has been your experiences? As a point of reference my four were bought from Harris and I couldn't be happier with them.

[luckycloud]

I really would like to have a Xie Shan but can't find trees being sold anywhere. Has anyone seen them in stock at all online?

[luckycloud]

I wrote to Harris, who replied that they will have some in the future. Guess I have to be patient.

I'd also be curious to hear how they are growing for everyone. Seems like I've heard multiple folks say it's one of the tastiest citrus they have had. But 8-10 years is a long time to get the fruit quality up. Not sure I'm THAT patient. Those who love them, how old are your trees?

[seminolepirate]

I've been pleased with the 3 gallon xie shans I purchased last year. Many are almost 5ft tall now and took 18 degrees as well as almost 2 weeks of sub freezing nights . As to fruit quality , I am.uncertain but  I am hopeful. Could puffy fruit be because of too much nitrogen?

[Darkman]

Too much N has been suggested but I don't believe I did that. To explain, my citrus rows have a Geneva Double Curtain muscadine trellis running the length of the rows between the citrus rows. I fertilize each according to recommendations. I'm careful to fertilize within the dripline and careful about not overlapping. Having said that as far as I know muscadine nor citrus roots probably don't care about driplines. Maybe I do need to cut back. Overwatering has also been suggested. Mother Nature doesn't read the suggested watering guides for my orchard plants. She gave me 91.3 inches last year clearly more than I needed. I'll start with the soil sample and see what I have in the ground and go from there.

[mrtexas]

Any satsuma is a PITA wait until they start making good fruit. I'd agree 10 years minimum for any satsuma variety in my actual experience. Best fruit I ever tasted
was on a 25+ year old owari tree planted in 1989 grown in sandy soil. I took buds from those trees and grew my own and got lousy, puffy, fruit for 5+ years.

"Too much N has been suggested but I don't believe I did that." I doubt that as well.

By former adviser to Alabama satsuma growers now at Texas A&M:

How to set lots of blooms for citrus fruit quality and thin skinned satsumas
Fertilize with Nitrogen according to tree age and crop load.
Fertilize early, well in advance of blooming
Protect foliage from winter damage to avoid leaf drop.
Prevent injury to foliage by Red Mites,etc.
Water trees diligently from budbreak through early fruit drop.
Fertility
Citrus are evergreen plants & relatively heavy nutrient consumers.
Nitrogen is main element of concern.
Applied annually
Split applications most efficient
Slow-release may be effective in some sites.
Soil & Leaf testing identifies need of other elements.
Collect current-season spring flush leaves in August for leaf analysis
Without testing, use complete fertilizer with minor nutrients
Nitrogen is key
For trees 7+ years old and healthy
Apply 1.0 to 1.5 pounds actual Nitrogen per tree per year
Divide into 2 or 3 doses
60%, 20%, 20%
Valentines Day
Mother’s Day
Father’s Day
In years with poor April Bloom or poor May fruit retention, skip applications 2 & 3.
Use granular fertilizer (no spikes). Broadcast under tree canopy. Water in with sprinklers or rainfall.

Summary of presentation:

satsuma tree must set a heavy crop of fruit for good quality
fertilize heavily according to the slide,1
5 year old tree 5-8 lbs 13-13-13 per year
fertilize 60% before bloom, water heavily
20% mothers day, 20% fathers day.

Satsuma fruit quality:
https://mrtexascitrus.weebly.com/citrusfruitquality.html

[Millet]

It is very clear that puff disorder is a function of aging, changes in metabolism, and or hormones that are associated with the aging processes of fruit that are past maturity..  Although no plant growth regulator is used to control puff directly, since it is a disorder observed in fruit past maturity, GA3 treatments used commonly to delay peel senescence will reduce puff SIGNIFICANTLY..  Most satsumas are mature before the
peel has completely turned color.

[Tom]

I have 3 good sized Satsumas in the ground. I’ve lost track of the varieties and exact age. They are too big to be grafted on flying dragon but they are old enough that below their grafts are huge like an elephant foot. I have to trim them every year to keep them in the hoop house. This year I covered them with frost cloth for only two very cold periods. Once for 2 weeks of very cold weather and then about 3 days for cold weather. They have never had a really huge crop. I’m sure all the pruning hurts but it can’t be helped. My fruit it very puffy most of the time.

Some years are definitely better than others and they are about 10 years old , maybe more but not much more. I probably need to pick earlier in the fall too. I wish I’d put Satsumas in the ground that were grafted to flying dragon. Same with my nongrafted Meyer.

The Meyer is huge, often needs trimming but I’ve had over 300 lemons several times. Never had 300 Satsumas counting all three trees in one year. I’ve often trimmed to keep the citrus in the frame for winter but I’m not ever going to climb a citrus tree to pick fruit !

Bottom line, I think flying dragon rootstock would have been much better for me. Smaller trees, smaller fruit and better tasting fruit resulting from the flying dragon root stock !

All my Xie Shans are still in pots and I don’t know what their rootstock were when I bought them. Most of my Xie Shan plants came from Four Winds Nursery in California. At least 2 Xie Shans died on me in pots. Tough summers, not great potting soil, and  too much water sometimes probably killed them but they were both on flying dragon. Flying dragon might be harder to keep alive in pots. Especially if you are loving them too much, meaning I probably watered them too much and the potting soil didn’t drain fast enough.

I’ve been looking for where my Xie Shan trees came from. I don’t see any Xie Shan on the 4 Winds web site. I know I’ve bought Xie Shan whenever I could find them. Petals from the Past doesn’t list Xie Shan but they do have them sometimes in their store.

That’s my thinking right now . I hope that makes sense and helps somebody !

Tom

[mrtexas]

What is the coldest temperature in Montgomery? Satsuma is pretty hardy to 18F.

[Darkman]

Wow! I'm glad I did bring this topic back to life. Tom, Millet, Mr. Texas and references to Monte Nesbitt. I'm glad all y'all are still posting. Millet I know Hershell gave you my number use it! LOL Tom glad you're still doing the hoop house. Last time we saw each other was in Clanton at the expo. Mr. Texas I sure was glad you chipped in with your experience. The piece from Monte was great. I think I'll follow his advice this year.

I sampled weekly last year but they never developed the acidity or sweetness. Might have something to do with the 91.3 inches of rain. I was sampling when they were still green. I might look into the GA3.

My trees have tight white buds right now and the tree is loaded with blooms. I realize I may still have some wait but y'all did give me some bope. Much appreciated!

[Tom]

Hi Darkman ! Great to hear from you ! It’s been a while. I hope you are feeling better. Yes my hoop is hanging in there but you know I want something bigger and better !!

Mr. Texas I agree Satsumas do fine as low as 18* F. IF the sats are in a dormant state. Here and probably where you are it can be 80 degrees at Christmas and we can get hurt with a surge of cold air in less than 2 weeks. Also late freezes can be a real problem.

18 is about as cold as we get but I’ve had 14 degrees a few times and I can remember single digits twice in my life. I’m almost 66 years old and single digits are very rare here. 14 is not a common occurance every year at all but it happens way too much !

Darkman, Millet asked me for your number a while ago, maybe about  when you had a bad spell of health. I think maybe you had changed numbers or something. You might have felt so bad you didn’t want to be reached ! I remember Millet was trying to get in touch but I couldn’t help. I haven’t heard from you for a while !

On a little different note, I’m thrilled we are finally in March ! When we had cattle the old saying was February shakes em but March takes em. March can still have some brutal cold days !

Tom