Author Topic: Xie Shan Satsuma  (Read 6657 times)

Millet

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Xie Shan Satsuma
« on: June 06, 2015, 09:35:02 PM »
At the citrus tasting held during the Citrus Expo in Alabama. They had a large selection of citrus varieties, and the attendees were ask to cast their vote for what they considered to be the best tasting variety. The winner (and by a rather large measure) was Xie Shan. Dekopon was not in the contest.
Millet

Pancrazio

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Re: Xie Shan Satsuma
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2015, 06:02:12 PM »
I probably should get that satsuma, evenmore if it mantains the typical cold hardiness of satsumas.
I have found that http://www.exotickerostliny.cz/ has it in its catalog, but under its original name of Wakayama. Now i wonder if they are the same, but since i have tasted both miyagawa and okitsu and i wasn't impressed (but they went from very small potted plant grafted on macrophylla and this may have been part of my disappointment) i fear that even this satsuma may disappoint me. Not sharing the same tasting tables across the ocean is a great damage for the citrus community!
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Millet

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Re: Xie Shan Satsuma
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2015, 10:14:57 PM »
Pancrazio, the Xie Shan satsuma, pronounced She Shan, is a very early maturing satsuma, often mature  in September or early October.
Citrus trees, mandarins and satsuma's included, really do not produce quality tasting fruit until at least the 5th year of age, and almost never on young/small trees either in containers or trees planted in the ground.    Dr. Malcolm Manners, a professor in the citrus department of Southern Florida University, once told me that the very best citrus fruit he as ever eaten was picked off of a 25 year old tree.  So even is you are fortunate to get a Xie San tree don't judge it by it first few crops.  Citrus macrophylla normally is given the rating number "5" for fruit quality grown on its rootstock.  The number "5" is the worst number rating on the rootstock scale.  However, for tree vigor macrophylla gets a "1" which is of course the highest rating.  Therefore, I personally believe the only reason a person would use macrophylla would be for its ability to offer a scion high vigor.  But a high vigor rootstock would not be my choice for a container grown tree. - Millet
« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 10:47:32 PM by Millet »

Pancrazio

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Re: Xie Shan Satsuma
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2015, 05:37:44 PM »
Uhm, so yes, i will attempt to grow them anyway. My doubt is that I'm unsure if i can get them to stay alive for 25 years in a row, on most winter they should be able to do fine, but every now and then we get those nasty arctic blast... we will see. I plan to graft them over flying dragon (i have already 3 flying dragon in ground for that purpose) so i hope that thy may make for good tasting fruit because i heard that poncirus makes good fruit with high soluble solids. Now  i just have got to wait that my poncirus becomes 1,50-1,70 meters tall (5-6 feet tall) because i want to avoid the freezing temperature that ca be experienced, sometimes, close to the soil. I have had such suggestion from a french fruit forum, but i don't know if it is wise or dumber compared to a low graft (on a low graft i can simply cover the grafting point with soil or snow if the problem arises).
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Radoslav

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Re: Xie Shan Satsuma
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2015, 03:00:53 AM »
I can agree with Millet in case of satsuma taste. I have Miyagawa tree in 100 liters pot and I bought it in 2007 from Italian nursery in Lamezia Terme region. The fruits are better and better. The crop from 2013 was the best so far, great totally sweet fruits with rich flavour. In 2014 it has no crop - strongly alternate bearer and now it is full of fruits, so I am waiting eagerly for new fall crop.
Higher graft protects against frost close to the ground. It is not only about protection of the graft union point, but whole grafted part.


« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 03:05:58 AM by Radoslav »

Pancrazio

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Re: Xie Shan Satsuma
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2015, 05:35:01 AM »
Then I've got to wait. Hopefully i will get sweet satsuma too; their acid note, pretty pronounced, and the lack of sweetness has been a little off putting but i'm glad to hear that it was just bad timing.
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Riverland

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Re: Xie Shan Satsuma
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2015, 07:28:49 AM »
Pancrazio, I cannot comment specifically on Xie Shan as it has not been imported here.
But satsumas in the main are not a sweet mandarin; yes, lower in acidity but not sweet.
It takes controlled water stress by growers here to get Okitsu significantly above brix 10. Afourer/Tango will easily reach 14 brix no problem. Gold nugget which many members rate, even higher levels.
Here is data from UCR. Low numbers for SS means lower sugar levels.
http://www.ccpp.ucr.edu/variety/621.html
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 07:52:48 AM by Riverland »

buddinman

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Re: Xie Shan Satsuma
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2015, 10:10:47 AM »
It has been my experience the first few years satsumas bear the quality is not too good. They progressively get better as they age. A friend last fall gave me a few from an old tree that were excellent. The tree actually bore over 1000 fruit last season. Have recently paced 2 buds into my Silverhill satsuma from that tree.

Millet

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Re: Xie Shan Satsuma
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2015, 11:12:59 AM »
The taste quality of a citrus fruit is really not so much about the acid level, nor the sugar level, but more importantly its the ratio between the two that makes for a good fruit. It just so happens , that there is a commercial running on the television currently that has a line in the commercial that says "the oldest trees produce the best fruit". - Millet

Riverland

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Re: Xie Shan Satsuma
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2015, 06:24:39 PM »
Glad you mentioned taste quality. Citrus Australia (industry body which represents commercial citrus growers) on their assessment of Okitsu, considered the best of the available satsuma varieties here: "Eating quality has been described as relatively bland for the Australian palate and with a degree of chewiness or rag."
Perhaps Xie Shan is unique and exceptional to all other citrus unshiu.

FruitFreak

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Re: Xie Shan Satsuma
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2015, 03:32:45 PM »
Would love to taste this variety and possibly pick one up from Harris Nursery.
- Marley

Pancrazio

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Re: Xie Shan Satsuma
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2015, 05:45:05 PM »
Glad you mentioned taste quality. Citrus Australia (industry body which represents commercial citrus growers) on their assessment of Okitsu, considered the best of the available satsuma varieties here: "Eating quality has been described as relatively bland for the Australian palate and with a degree of chewiness or rag."
Perhaps Xie Shan is unique and exceptional to all other citrus unshiu.

This may be a real issue. I mean, i wouldn't be so strange if a slight preference for a little more sweet or tart taste could be a little different from the two sides of the Atlantic.
Personally the satsuma i have tasted from Sicilian growers were fairly tasting, not as acid as mine, a definitively more flavorful (they were miygawa). Personally i have a well pronounced sweet tooth, but i can enjoy even bitter/tannic foods if they have a good flavour profile, and, especially, a pronounced scent.
A this point, one could say that i probably should focus on other citruses but in my place citruses don't grow (i'm just out of the citrus belt for italy) so if i want to eat some fruits from my tree my choices are the most cold resistant varieties. I will test several other cold teneder citrus (but those just for fun), while i do expect satsuma to perform fairly so they are my best bet to have fresh citrus.
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Millet

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Re: Xie Shan Satsuma
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2015, 10:04:34 PM »
Xie Shan is the Chinese translation of the original Japanese name akiyama It has a unique flavor and taste that differs from other Satsumas. Xie Shan is the earliest harvested of all satsumas with harvesting starting by mid-September Xie Shan together with 'Miyagawa' forms a new group of easy-peeling, completely seedless, super-early satsumas.  Xie Shan also has a unique taste separate from all other satsumas. - Millet

robbyhernz

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Re: Xie Shan Satsuma
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2015, 01:20:42 PM »
Millet, hopefully this season we get lucky with a seed from one of your fruits  ;)

Millet

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Re: Xie Shan Satsuma
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2015, 02:55:42 PM »
Rob, I don't think so as Xie Shan is a seedless fruit. - Millet

kumin

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Re: Xie Shan Satsuma
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2019, 06:06:39 AM »
Millet, do you have any Information on the presence, or  absence of viable pollen produced by Xie Shan?

Ilya11

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Re: Xie Shan Satsuma
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2019, 07:24:13 AM »
There are some pollen grains, but their abundance depends  on environmental factors.
 
Best regards,
                       Ilya

 

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