Author Topic: Best native type persimmon  (Read 1621 times)

Rispa

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Best native type persimmon
« on: March 27, 2023, 02:49:30 AM »
Based on reading so far I think what I'm looking for is a variety from the Jerry Lehman collection. I tried a native persimmon at a rest stop on the Florida pan handle and found it far superior compared to the few Asian types I've tried. The downsides were small fruit and lots of seed taking up most of the room. That said are there any improved native varieties that are bigger and/or less seedy? Or perhaps a hybrid that takes after the native in taste and the Asian in size and seed amounts?

pagnr

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Re: Best native type persimmon
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2023, 04:07:40 PM »
I am pretty sure there are named varieties of American Diospyros.
(Sadly they never came here to Australia with the American Diaspora).
In previous threads, other people have mentioned favourite types or locations for good types.

FloridaManDan

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Re: Best native type persimmon
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2023, 05:35:25 PM »
There isn't too much available online about American persimmon cultivars; I found the NC State Extension to be useful for summaries of named commercial varieties:
https://plants.ces.ncsu.edu/plants/diospyros-virginiana/

ARS Plant Germplasm database, misc. varieties when you search by species:
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/search

Out of everything I read (briefly) about Mr. Lehman, looks like his most popular varieties in terms of current availability are the "Morris Burton" (low production, small fruit) and "Jerry Lehman's Delight 100-46" [F-100 cross] (good fruit quality and production)

The "Growing Fruit" forum has pages and pages of misc. threads on his work. Forum member "Barkslip" there seems to be currently active and has had access to Lehman's crosses budwood.
Never saw these growing up where I was in IL, wish I knew more. Personally, I would think the self-fertile commercial varieties, like Meader and Prok, would be easiest and most efficient to grow, unless you plan on doing persimmon breeding as well.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2023, 05:38:14 PM by FloridaManDan »

CarolinaZone

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Re: Best native type persimmon
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2023, 11:46:19 PM »
There isn't too much available online about American persimmon cultivars; I found the NC State Extension to be useful for summaries of named commercial varieties:
https://plants.ces.ncsu.edu/plants/diospyros-virginiana/

ARS Plant Germplasm database, misc. varieties when you search by species:
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/search

Out of everything I read (briefly) about Mr. Lehman, looks like his most popular varieties in terms of current availability are the "Morris Burton" (low production, small fruit) and "Jerry Lehman's Delight 100-46" [F-100 cross] (good fruit quality and production)

The "Growing Fruit" forum has pages and pages of misc. threads on his work. Forum member "Barkslip" there seems to be currently active and has had access to Lehman's crosses budwood.
Never saw these growing up where I was in IL, wish I knew more. Personally, I would think the self-fertile commercial varieties, like Meader and Prok, would be easiest and most efficient to grow, unless you plan on doing persimmon breeding as well.
Hmmm...I found plenty on American persimmons. I bought some scions from a farm based on the data I bfoundnon the growingfruit forum and then thw may sellers websites. Rmmv

FloridaManDan

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Re: Best native type persimmon
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2023, 12:24:07 AM »
There isn't too much available online about American persimmon cultivars; I found the NC State Extension to be useful for summaries of named commercial varieties:
https://plants.ces.ncsu.edu/plants/diospyros-virginiana/

ARS Plant Germplasm database, misc. varieties when you search by species:
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/search

Out of everything I read (briefly) about Mr. Lehman, looks like his most popular varieties in terms of current availability are the "Morris Burton" (low production, small fruit) and "Jerry Lehman's Delight 100-46" [F-100 cross] (good fruit quality and production)

The "Growing Fruit" forum has pages and pages of misc. threads on his work. Forum member "Barkslip" there seems to be currently active and has had access to Lehman's crosses budwood.
Never saw these growing up where I was in IL, wish I knew more. Personally, I would think the self-fertile commercial varieties, like Meader and Prok, would be easiest and most efficient to grow, unless you plan on doing persimmon breeding as well.
Hmmm...I found plenty on American persimmons. I bought some scions from a farm based on the data I bfoundnon the growingfruit forum and then thw may sellers websites. Rmmv

Feel free to drop any papers or data! Other than posts on other forums and a few websites, not much research coming up for me.

zands

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Re: Best native type persimmon
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2023, 08:17:02 AM »

"Persimmon and Snow, Fukui, Japan "" tabindex="0" /></p>

</body>







zands

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Re: Best native type persimmon
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2023, 08:19:13 AM »

Gulfgardener

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Re: Best native type persimmon
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2023, 08:35:40 AM »
Cricket Hill Nursery is where I purchased my 100-46 persimmon. I'd put your name down on the waiting list and it will probably be available again in the fall. They offer other American persimmons like Prok and Meader too. I've been really happy with this nursery. They have a nice selection of mulberries as well.

https://www.treepeony.com/collections/fruits-and-berries-for-shipping/genus_diospyros?sort_by=manual

johnb51

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Re: Best native type persimmon
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2023, 06:54:46 PM »

"Persimmon and Snow, Fukui, Japan "" tabindex="0" /></p>

</body>
Japanese persimmons.  Good thing Rob's not around to cuss you out.
John

Rispa

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Re: Best native type persimmon
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2023, 01:43:29 AM »
Thank you guys so much. This information has been keeping me busy 😊

GardenAndGame

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Re: Best native type persimmon
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2023, 01:56:19 PM »
Yes, the American Persimmon does well in the gulf coast area. The named varieties typically have larger fruit than wild trees but not quite as big as the Asian varieties. Most of the named American persimmon varieties are hexaploid (90 chromosomes) which is common in the north while tetraploid (60 chromosomes) are found in the south. This means that even if there are wild male trees around, the hexaploid named varieties should be seedless in the sourthern region since they are not compatible with the native tetraploid males.

I've got small trees of 100-46, H63a, and WS 8-10 growing at the moment but not bearing yet. 

elouicious

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Re: Best native type persimmon
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2023, 04:49:48 PM »
Don't forget Diospyros texana  ;)

Rispa

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Re: Best native type persimmon
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2023, 06:16:13 PM »
Don't forget Diospyros texana  ;)
You are growing that variety from seed right?

Rispa

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Re: Best native type persimmon
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2023, 06:19:05 PM »
Yes, the American Persimmon does well in the gulf coast area. The named varieties typically have larger fruit than wild trees but not quite as big as the Asian varieties. Most of the named American persimmon varieties are hexaploid (90 chromosomes) which is common in the north while tetraploid (60 chromosomes) are found in the south. This means that even if there are wild male trees around, the hexaploid named varieties should be seedless in the sourthern region since they are not compatible with the native tetraploid males.

I've got small trees of 100-46, H63a, and WS 8-10 growing at the moment but not bearing yet.
That's very exciting. I hope they fruit for you. The one I collected seeds from fruited mid summer. No idea when it flowers though.

Thanks for the info on the genome mismatch.

Pokeweed

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Re: Best native type persimmon
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2023, 07:23:07 AM »
my Texanas are from seed. I have one flowering age male and one flowering female. They haven't made. fruit yet, but maybe this is the year. My Virginias are also from seed, from a tree less than a mile from the house. They are getting pretty big, but no flowers yet. D

GardenAndGame

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Re: Best native type persimmon
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2023, 09:06:29 AM »
Thanks Rispa,

Yes, I hope so too. I just recently grafted them so it will probably be another few years. I haven't had any of the named varieties but these are highly regarded. I have tasted unnamed fruit though and like the taste so I'm looking forward to it. The main issue with the natives was that they were full of seeds. Having seedless fruit will be great!

GG

Rispa

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Re: Best native type persimmon
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2024, 04:44:48 PM »
Thanks Rispa,

Yes, I hope so too. I just recently grafted them so it will probably be another few years. I haven't had any of the named varieties but these are highly regarded. I have tasted unnamed fruit though and like the taste so I'm looking forward to it. The main issue with the natives was that they were full of seeds. Having seedless fruit will be great!

GG

Is been close to a year. How are things growing?

 

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