Author Topic: Old Cultivars vs New  (Read 8690 times)

natsgarden123

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Old Cultivars vs New
« on: April 19, 2012, 11:04:00 AM »
I have never seen this specifically asked:   Lets say someone is starting out-just bought a new house-wants to plants some trees ( My neighbor is such a person-he is admiring my trees)- What advice would people here give? Id like to see a discussions about the older, established cultivars vs the new. What would you tell my neighbor? 
 
I'd like to see this discussion-I'm pretty new to the online fruit forums.... so be kind to me!  :-*



murahilin

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2012, 11:20:05 AM »
It really all depends on what he likes. If he likes the older ones plant those, if he likes the newer ones he should plant those. There is no right answer, it's very subjective.

With some types of fruit there aren't really many older varieties that would grow in S Fl such as peaches, plums, and blueberries. The newer ones developed by UF and some other Universities are really the ones that do well. With other species such as mango, there are excellent older and new varieties and it depends on his taste.

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2012, 12:41:20 PM »
I have never seen this specifically asked:   Lets say someone is starting out-just bought a new house-wants to plants some trees ( My neighbor is such a person-he is admiring my trees)- What advice would people here give? Id like to see a discussions about the older, established cultivars vs the new. What would you tell my neighbor? 
 
I'd like to see this discussion-I'm pretty new to the online fruit forums.... so be kind to me!  :-*
They should do THEIR due diligence.  They should taste a buy/plant what THEY like as there is no right or wrong with new vs. old cultivars.  You could give all the recommendations in the world but then you wind up "on the hook" if they don't like what you recommended.

IF you are good friends with them, you might want to discuss the "sharing" method.  That is, they should plant something different than what you have, then the two of you can share and have access to more varieties.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 05:53:31 PM by bsbullie »
- Rob

natsgarden123

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2012, 01:18:53 PM »
I didn't  give any  advice except to stay  away from home depot and to take a ride over to Excalibur. I like the sharing idea.  :)  I want to see what the experts say on here

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2012, 04:28:50 PM »
The good thing about the old varieties is that it has a history and you know what to expect, such as productivity, disease resistance, size, ect...Of course you have to take into consideration where you are growing it, the type of soil it is grown in, climate, humidity, pH of soil and water and so on. 

New varieties must bring something new to the table such as taste, precocity, dwarf growing habit or else why would the breeder try to bring this new variety to the public?

Best advice is to try and taste as many of the varieties as you or your neighbor can and plant the one you like best but take into consideration whether or not that variety performs well at your particular location. 
Simon

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2012, 05:24:56 PM »

They should due THEIR due diligence.  They should taste a buy/plant what THEY like as there is no right or wrong with new vs. old cultivars.  You could give all the recommendations in the world but then you wind up "on the hook" if they don't like what you recommended.

IF you are good friends with them, you might want to discuss the "sharing" method.  That is, they should plant something different than what you have, then the two of you can share and have access to more varieties.

that seems like the wisest advice you could get on this subject.

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2012, 06:39:33 PM »
I have never seen this specifically asked:   Lets say someone is starting out-just bought a new house-wants to plants some trees ( My neighbor is such a person-he is admiring my trees)- What advice would people here give? Id like to see a discussions about the older, established cultivars vs the new. What would you tell my neighbor? 
 
I'd like to see this discussion-I'm pretty new to the online fruit forums.... so be kind to me!  :-*

He has to think how big he wants his trees. Valencia Pride is a good shade tree kind of mango. Does he want to extend to extend the mango season? Has he ever had a lychee? He should draw a schematic of where he wants to plant his trees. Which will he plant where some fruits might get stolen. Will he plant trees in his front yard?

If you able to maybe you can show another persons fruit trees' yard to give him more ideas

natsgarden123

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2012, 10:47:43 PM »
I gave him the Fairchild mango book to read.  As far as size, does anyone know how large the newer cultivars will get?  I planted a lemon zest and a harvest moon without knowing how big they will get.
I know how big my Valencia pride has the potential to be ..
 

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2012, 11:01:06 PM »
I gave him the Fairchild mango book to read.  As far as size, does anyone know how large the newer cultivars will get?  I planted a lemon zest and a harvest moon without knowing how big they will get.
I know how big my Valencia pride has the potential to be ..
As I stated in a prior post, since these "new"mangoes are all still in the experimental stages, it will be tough to say with any certainties on size, resistance, etc.  With respect t the LZ, since it is a seedling of a PPK, for now I would go with saying the size of the PPK.  With respect t Harvest Moon, I am not sure of the parentage.  Jeff??

The Fairchild mango book is not the best guide for your neighbor's purpose.  A lot of the varieties in that book are not available or just flat out not worthy of growing.  It is a more of a Florida historic guide to mangoes.  As in a lot of cases, book smart is not always the way to go.  He, or she, will go much farther with street smarts.  By that I mean visit the nurseries and taste the fruits.  That is more and better info than any book will give initially.  Once they have seen and tasted, then the book becomes better reading.
- Rob

natsgarden123

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2012, 11:13:30 PM »
I gave him a small Fairchild mango book"how to grow the worlds most delicious fruit"
Just a basic guide.  He's going to take a trip to Excalibur to taste some mangos in a few weeks.

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2012, 11:18:21 PM »
I gave him a small Fairchild mango book"how to grow the worlds most delicious fruit"
Just a basic guide.  He's going to take a trip to Excalibur to taste some mangos in a few weeks.
not sure how much there will be in just a few weeks...more like the very end of May thru August.
- Rob

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2012, 12:41:40 AM »
I have never seen this specifically asked:   Lets say someone is starting out-just bought a new house-wants to plants some trees ( My neighbor is such a person-he is admiring my trees)- What advice would people here give? Id like to see a discussions about the older, established cultivars vs the new. What would you tell my neighbor? 
 
I'd like to see this discussion-I'm pretty new to the online fruit forums.... so be kind to me!  :-*

Is your neighbor just starting out at planting trees or at being a homeowner? If the first i think it will be a major achievement on your part if you get him to plant any fruit tree at all, whether it be an old, a middling, or a new variety of mango. I think many people are only familiar with supermarket mangos, so compared to that almost any cultiver, except maybe the dreaded Tommy Atkins, will be an improvement to what they're used to eating. Also so many people go their whole life never planting one single tree! GASP!!!
As for planting new mango cultivars, what is considered "new" in Florida? Something developed in the last 24 hours? HAHAHA You guys in Florida crank out so many that "new" takes on a new meaning.  ;)
I also liked Rob's idea of co-operating in your harvests. You can exchange mango cultivars or even different fruits and will have more to enjoy. The only possible problem with this is it assumes you will be on good terms forever, and that doesn't always occur with neighbors unfortunately. But if you two are already good friends it could be very beneficial.
Oscar

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2012, 08:15:53 AM »
I don't have any suggestion on this topic because my knowledge on mangoes is really superficial. I think that all the points brought here are valid for your neightbour, expecially the taste sampling.
Anyway, if we speak about fruit trees in general, i would suggest older varieties. Usually for those you find better advice, more knowledge, and strong points and flaws are well known. I can imagine that new varieties have flaws too, they just haven't shown up because the lack of time in cultivation.
I usually prefer older varieties for another reason: often they are centuries old, and hundreds years ago people weren't able to spray plant with chemicals, so usually older (very old) varieties are also stronger aganist pathogens. Centuries ago a susceptible cultivar, even if good flavored, wasn't useful if it wasn't able to bring fruit because of pests. This translates in less chemical around (a good thing), less fuss around to cure the plant (a good thing), some money saved, and more healty fruits.
You in florida apparently live in a strange situation: you have developed some really awesome varieties of mangoes that have become a worldwide standard for this plant. BUT as often pointed, this plant isn't indigenous of florida, this means that probably the better suited cultivar for your climate aren't the older in absolut, but simply the solid old florida varieties. Some new (developed or imported) varieties can also be well suited for your environment (even older cultivar have been "new" at some point in the past), but i think that for casual grower older/well known/widespread cultivar can be a safer bet.
Just my 2 cents.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 08:39:27 AM by Pancrazio »
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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2012, 08:28:21 AM »
Pancrazio: That was great a write up, worth way more than two cents!

Oscar: I agree, if you can get someone to plant one FRUIT tree in their life, that is an achievement!

Rob: I like the idea of recommending to have different varieties in the neighbor's house from what he has.

And one more idea: Have your neighbor check these forums and do their homework before they purchase the trees.  That way he/she doesn't just buy what the "nursery" wants to sell him.
Adiel

natsgarden123

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2012, 08:36:55 AM »
My neighbor has been here for a while. He has planted a Honeywell orange tree -
 I am definitely going to tell him to plant some varieties
I don't have.  :)  I told him to wait until May or June,so he can at least taste something other than a supermarket mango. The first tree which I ever planted was a Hayden from home depot. It grew amazingly well. Great fruit. No disease whatsoever (back then I didn't even know that there were diseases.) Whatever he grows should be relatively bulletproof. I have a Carrie (bullies favorite) which has been growing well after saving it from my neighbors garbage. That's pretty hardy.

natsgarden123

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2012, 08:40:35 AM »
More more thing. I don't think I would tell him to go to the forums just yet...talk about confusing a person! I did suggest he go to the Rare Fruit Society meetings.

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2012, 09:52:20 AM »
More more thing. I don't think I would tell him to go to the forums just yet...talk about confusing a person! I did suggest he go to the Rare Fruit Society meetings.
Going to the meetings ?  I think that would be more confusing than the forums if he has no tropical fruit knowledge.

Have him come to Exacalibur for some learning.

By the way, you say he has a honeybell Orange, does he have a dancy tangerine, as a needed pollinator, to go with it ?  If not, you should send him to Excalibur to get one.
- Rob

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2012, 10:13:49 AM »
I agree.
 :)

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2012, 11:04:02 AM »
More more thing. I don't think I would tell him to go to the forums just yet...talk about confusing a person! I did suggest he go to the Rare Fruit Society meetings.
Going to the meetings ?  I think that would be more confusing than the forums if he has no tropical fruit knowledge.

Have him come to Exacalibur for some learning.

By the way, you say he has a honeybell Orange, does he have a dancy tangerine, as a needed pollinator, to go with it ?  If not, you should send him to Excalibur to get one.

I phoned up a grove and they said they use Valencia orange. "Your Florida Dooryard Citrus Guide" by Jim Ferguson (was in my library) lists Sunburst and Temple as best HoneyBell pollinators. I bought a Sunburst to pollinate my HoneyBell but the Honeybell may or may not pollinate it. Temple Orange aka Temple Tangor is self pollinating so the best easy choice for HoneyBell along with I guess.......Valencia

If you are really interested I'll scan the citrus pollination page for this forum

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2012, 11:29:57 AM »
More more thing. I don't think I would tell him to go to the forums just yet...talk about confusing a person! I did suggest he go to the Rare Fruit Society meetings.
Going to the meetings ?  I think that would be more confusing than the forums if he has no tropical fruit knowledge.

Have him come to Exacalibur for some learning.

By the way, you say he has a honeybell Orange, does he have a dancy tangerine, as a needed pollinator, to go with it ?  If not, you should send him to Excalibur to get one.

I phoned up a grove and they said they use Valencia orange. "Your Florida Dooryard Citrus Guide" by Jim Ferguson (was in my library) lists Sunburst and Temple as best HoneyBell pollinators. I bought a Sunburst to pollinate my HoneyBell but the Honeybell may or may not pollinate it. Temple Orange aka Temple Tangor is self pollinating so the best easy choice for HoneyBell along with I guess.......Valencia

If you are really interested I'll scan the citrus pollination page for this forum
I think I told you about the suburst tangerine, the other popular commercial pollinator is the Tempor...however, both these varieties are not readily availble from what I have seen (or maybe do not grow well here, not sure).
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 05:46:05 PM by bsbullie »
- Rob

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2012, 04:49:38 PM »

I think I told you about the suburst tangerine, the other popular commercail pollintair is the Tempor...however, both these varieties are not readily availble from what I have seen (or maybe do not grow well here, not sure).

You did and I got one. I have a Dancy tangerine too.

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2012, 05:33:54 PM »
Many of the prior posts have good advice.  I planted a mixture of both new and old.  I am a bit of a risk taker with the new cultivars because little is publicly known about them, but I believe the new cultivars would not be released unless they have good potential. 

There is no substitute for research.  Both in taste, tree productivity, ease of care (disease resistance), and size of tree.  Some mangos may taste great, but have low productivity (Edwards).  Some mangos may taste great, but be very susceptible to fungus, so you get lots of frustration watching fruit decay and get few fruit to eat. 

Good luck!
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natsgarden123

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2012, 06:39:46 PM »
Many of the prior posts have good advice.  I planted a mixture of both new and old.  I am a bit of a risk taker with the new cultivars because little is publicly known about them, but I believe the new cultivars would not be released unless they have good potential. 

There is no substitute for research.  Both in taste, tree productivity, ease of care (disease resistance), and size of tree.  Some mangos may taste great, but have low productivity (Edwards).  Some mangos may taste great, but be very susceptible to fungus, so you get lots of frustration watching fruit decay and get few fruit to eat. 

Good luck!

I pretty much do what you do-  I like the older varieties- I think Valencia Pride, Mallika, Carrie, Fairchild and Baileys Marvel are the bomb- I have them all.  I really like Hayden, it delicious, but I won't plant one -too big and I already have some big varieties. .  I had a yummy Nam Doc Mai at my old house-I had the bigger tree variety ( now its a dwarf with ?fruit splitting problems). I have tasted and enjoyed all the above mangos.

I planted the Lemon Zest because there were so many amazing reviews. I planted the Harvest Moon, well, because I liked  the name. I planted a Pickering because I wanted a really  dwarf tree that would produce lots of mangoes -it looks amazing.

My husband has told me that I'm not allowed to plant any more mangoes...we'll see about that :) because I want a Maha Chanok- I'm hoping Excalibur has some to taste this summer so that I can taste it before planting.  The only other tree I may want is a Neelam, for late mangoes. 

With that all said,  I'm going to be in big trouble when I get back from the Mango Festival-I doubt that I will be able to leave empty handed..

With all this mango talk-I'm Hungry!







bsbullie

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2012, 06:51:38 PM »
Many of the prior posts have good advice.  I planted a mixture of both new and old.  I am a bit of a risk taker with the new cultivars because little is publicly known about them, but I believe the new cultivars would not be released unless they have good potential. 

There is no substitute for research.  Both in taste, tree productivity, ease of care (disease resistance), and size of tree.  Some mangos may taste great, but have low productivity (Edwards).  Some mangos may taste great, but be very susceptible to fungus, so you get lots of frustration watching fruit decay and get few fruit to eat. 

Good luck!

I pretty much do what you do-  I like the older varieties- I think Valencia Pride, Mallika, Carrie, Fairchild and Baileys Marvel are the bomb- I have them all.  I really like Hayden, it delicious, but I won't plant one -too big and I already have some big varieties. .  I had a yummy Nam Doc Mai at my old house-I had the bigger tree variety ( now its a dwarf with ?fruit splitting problems). I have tasted and enjoyed all the above mangos.

I planted the Lemon Zest because there were so many amazing reviews. I planted the Harvest Moon, well, because I liked  the name. I planted a Pickering because I wanted a really  dwarf tree that would produce lots of mangoes -it looks amazing.

My husband has told me that I'm not allowed to plant any more mangoes...we'll see about that :) because I want a maha chanok- I'm hoping Excalibur has some to taste this summer so that I can taste it before planting.  The only other tree I may want is a Neelam, for late mangoes. 

With that all said,  I'm going to be in big trouble when I get back from the Mango Festival-I doubt that I will be able to leave empty handed..

With all this mango talk-I'm Hungry!
That is not a completely accurate statement.  None of the NDM are dwarf.  The book is still out as to what the dwarfing rootstock does to it (the NDM on dwarfing rootstock are extremely limited, if available at all at this point, so it may be a mute point to comment on it).

Also, depending on your definition of "old", the Mallika was introduced in Florida in 1978 and Neelam in 1979.
- Rob

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2012, 06:55:18 PM »
You're in an unusual and enviable position of having so many different cultivars of mango widely available in Florida. Here i tried through my nursery to introduce more mango cultivars than people knew about normally. But that is easy because here if you ask 100 people to name one cultivar they will ALL say Hayden. If you ask them to name a second cultivar they will get a blank look on their face because Hayden is all they know. Ok the REALLY knowledgeable will also know of Keitt.
Oscar

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2012, 07:20:22 PM »
Many of the prior posts have good advice.  I planted a mixture of both new and old.  I am a bit of a risk taker with the new cultivars because little is publicly known about them, but I believe the new cultivars would not be released unless they have good potential. 

There is no substitute for research.  Both in taste, tree productivity, ease of care (disease resistance), and size of tree.  Some mangos may taste great, but have low productivity (Edwards).  Some mangos may taste great, but be very susceptible to fungus, so you get lots of frustration watching fruit decay and get few fruit to eat. 

Good luck!

I pretty much do what you do-  I like the older varieties- I think Valencia Pride, Mallika, Carrie, Fairchild and Baileys Marvel are the bomb- I have them all.  I really like Hayden, it delicious, but I won't plant one -too big and I already have some big varieties. .  I had a yummy Nam Doc Mai at my old house-I had the bigger tree variety ( now its a dwarf with ?fruit splitting problems). I have tasted and enjoyed all the above mangos.

I planted the Lemon Zest because there were so many amazing reviews. I planted the Harvest Moon, well, because I liked  the name. I planted a Pickering because I wanted a really  dwarf tree that would produce lots of mangoes -it looks amazing.

My husband has told me that I'm not allowed to plant any more mangoes...we'll see about that :) because I want a maha chanok- I'm hoping Excalibur has some to taste this summer so that I can taste it before planting.  The only other tree I may want is a Neelam, for late mangoes. 

With that all said,  I'm going to be in big trouble when I get back from the Mango Festival-I doubt that I will be able to leave empty handed..

With all this mango talk-I'm Hungry!
That is not a completely accurate statement.  None of the NDM are dwarf.  The book is still out as to what the dwarfing rootstock does to it (the NDM on dwarfing rootstock are extremely limited, if available at all at this point, so it may be a mute point to comment on it).

Also, depending on your definition of "old", the Mallika was introduced in Florida in 1978 and Neelam in 1979.

Rob
1.) Old doesn't mean antique- I should have said- "Established" 
2.) The NDM trees sold today are not the ones that were sold 10 years ago, if I am correct. I read a number of threads on Nam Doc Mai being dwarf, compared to the way it was.  I actually asked is I could buy the original tree variety-it doesn't exist anymore.

Semantics... >:(







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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2012, 11:29:37 PM »
Many of the prior posts have good advice.  I planted a mixture of both new and old.  I am a bit of a risk taker with the new cultivars because little is publicly known about them, but I believe the new cultivars would not be released unless they have good potential. 

There is no substitute for research.  Both in taste, tree productivity, ease of care (disease resistance), and size of tree.  Some mangos may taste great, but have low productivity (Edwards).  Some mangos may taste great, but be very susceptible to fungus, so you get lots of frustration watching fruit decay and get few fruit to eat. 

Good luck!

I pretty much do what you do-  I like the older varieties- I think Valencia Pride, Mallika, Carrie, Fairchild and Baileys Marvel are the bomb- I have them all.  I really like Hayden, it delicious, but I won't plant one -too big and I already have some big varieties. .  I had a yummy Nam Doc Mai at my old house-I had the bigger tree variety ( now its a dwarf with ?fruit splitting problems). I have tasted and enjoyed all the above mangos.

I planted the Lemon Zest because there were so many amazing reviews. I planted the Harvest Moon, well, because I liked  the name. I planted a Pickering because I wanted a really  dwarf tree that would produce lots of mangoes -it looks amazing.

My husband has told me that I'm not allowed to plant any more mangoes...we'll see about that :) because I want a maha chanok- I'm hoping Excalibur has some to taste this summer so that I can taste it before planting.  The only other tree I may want is a Neelam, for late mangoes. 

With that all said,  I'm going to be in big trouble when I get back from the Mango Festival-I doubt that I will be able to leave empty handed..

With all this mango talk-I'm Hungry!
That is not a completely accurate statement.  None of the NDM are dwarf.  The book is still out as to what the dwarfing rootstock does to it (the NDM on dwarfing rootstock are extremely limited, if available at all at this point, so it may be a mute point to comment on it).

Also, depending on your definition of "old", the Mallika was introduced in Florida in 1978 and Neelam in 1979.

Rob
1.) Old doesn't mean antique- I should have said- "Established" 
2.) The NDM trees sold today are not the ones that were sold 10 years ago, if I am correct. I read a number of threads on Nam Doc Mai being dwarf, compared to the way it was.  I actually asked is I could buy the original tree variety-it doesn't exist anymore.

Semantics... >:(
Its not semantics, its facts.

Based on what you named this thread, you should know the facts before making statements.  I would not consider Neelam nor Mallika an "old" variety (from Fairchild on Mallika, "‘Mallika’ is a hybrid between 'Neelam' and 'Dasheri', and is considered among the best of the new generation of Indian dessert mangos.").  No, they are not one of Zills "new" varieties but they are not even close to the true old varieties that were introduces in the first quarter of the 1900s.  Based on the ages of varieties in Florida, I would place both Neelam and Mallika in the "newer" class.

As for NDM, your statement about the ones sold today are not what was sold ten years ago is completely wrong.  In addition, there are many cultivars of NDM.  I will also follow up by saying there are no proven dwarfs of NDM.  I believe in general they are a slower grower but will ultimately  grow past what would be considered a dwarf by definition.  Take the Mahachanok, for comparison purposes, it is a slow grower but by no means is it considered a dwarf.  So compared to a Val Pride, it may appear dwarfed but given time it is not a dwarf.

Carrie and Dot are other trees that fall into that dwarf misnomer category.  Keeping them pruned and managed at 10-12 feet is not the same thing as calling them a dwarf.  Many mangoes can be maintained at 10-15 feet with constant pruning, ala Richard Campbell, but that is a far cry from being a dwarf tree.
- Rob

natsgarden123

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2012, 05:07:55 AM »
I was given wrong information about NDM apparently? I don't understand what you are saying about there being different NDMs and that the tree I bought 10yo being the same which is sold now. No matter. The tree I bought 10yo is big now. I guess my understanding is wrong.
When i was referring to new i was talking about the new Zill varieties from the last few years. 
1978 is 30yo.
 I'm not remotely close to being an expert. I'm a backyard hobiest. I put the question out for discussion.
Rob, is there any reason there any reason that you are so argumentative?

Squam256

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2012, 05:45:34 AM »
Nat, I wouldn't declare your info incorrect. Some people describe NDM #4 as having a "semi-dwarf" growth habit. Regardless of the semantics, it is definitely measurably less vigorous than the 'original' NDM, which you could have for all we know.

bsbullie

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2012, 07:36:48 AM »
Its not being argumentative its correcting possibly misleading or incorrect information.  As you say you are a hobbyist, I would think you would have some caring in clarification and what is correct for your future knowledge.  People make mistakes, all of us, no big deal but sometimes its how we handle our mistakes.

Whether you were given wrong info I don't know but the "older" NDM as you said, did not just disappear.  Some nurseries may not be propagating it anymore but I guarantee that some definitely are.  There are some growers who feel the inherent problems with the #4 do not make it worthy of propagating.  Yes, #4 is a less vigorous grower but revisit the tree in 15-20 years and let me know the size.  As I stated, less vigorous does not mean its a dwarf.  And yes, there are a handful of sub-cultivars of NDM here in Florida, NDM Sai Tong being one.

As to Zills' "new" varieties, they are new to the "market" but the parent trees are not three years old either.  The parent trees are well established trees grown from seed, some of which have been producing fruit for at least since 2009.  The parent trees could very well be more than 10 years old.  As you may know, the Zills have been experimenting with mangoes for a long time.
- Rob

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2012, 07:59:51 AM »
Nat, it sounds like your neighbor is off to a good start, as far as the Honeybell/Minneola.  Pretty much anyone who likes citrus should love that. And it sounds like he or she is willing to take some time to explore options.

That said, if your neighbor, or any of our neighbors, simply asked: "what's a nice mango to plant in my yard?"  I think it is legitimate to offer a few suggestions.  Not everyone is going to want to do a lot of research, and that's okay.  Perhaps their passions lie elsewhere.

If he lives fairly close to the ocean, he would probably be thrilled with a Kent or a Dot. Otherwise he probably couldn't go wrong with a Cogshall or Keitt, Graham or Pickering, depending on how large/vigorous of a tree he wanted.

These are just examples, of course. I know we would all have our own suggestions, and any of those would be superior to the Tommy Atkins he would find on his own at Home Depot.

natsgarden123

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2012, 08:35:45 AM »
Thanks for all the comments  :)
I haven't given him much advice other than to read the basic hooks I have him (I also lent him the Charles Boning book) and to visit Excalibur to see the huge variety. They also have fairly large potted trees which I think would be helpful.

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Re: Old Cultivars vs New
« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2012, 09:02:39 AM »

2.) The NDM trees sold today are not the ones that were sold 10 years ago, if I am correct. I read a number of threads on Nam Doc Mai being dwarf, compared to the way it was.  I actually asked is I could buy the original tree variety-it doesn't exist anymore.

Semantics... >:(

Jeff Hagen might graft one for you...old style NDM. Old style NDMs can take some years to fruit but the fruits don't split so much....so the story goes. The trees grow faster and larger
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 03:28:49 PM by zands »

 

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