New Annonas in my collection!

[mikesid]

My dog dug up my recently planted 'Alano' sapodilla and sent it into shock...not sure yet if it will survive. But he also dug up my M. vexator..That one is a goner..So to comfort myself I took a trip over to Excalibur today and decided to pick up some Annonas..Here is my take on the trip:
Atemoya-'Lisa', 'Nuathong', Phetpakchong,
Ilama-'Genova Red','Pajajpita'
Plum-'Scarlet Beauty'
Mango-'Coconut Cream'

I am feeling much better now! Excalibur also had a 'Genova White', but I ran out of money...maybe next paycheck 

[mikesid]

Sounds like its time to evict the dog. 
What's to keep the dog from digging the new plants again?

Good choice in plants, I would have left the Plum and got the Genova instead.

I now lay down hardware cloth around the plant and cover with a fine layer of mulch...dogs don't appreciate digging into the metal with there claws...I too feel I should have gone with the Genova White but the guy that was helping me brought me by the plum trees and there were some ripe ones and my daughter really enjoyed them(very sweet and juicy)so I kinda got it for her. The Ilama varieties weren't even listed on their sheet we just stumbled upon them as I was leaving...definitely a pleasant surprise.

[bsbullie]

I have tasted the scarlet beauty...let it get real ripe (it will have brilliant coloration and have a decent give to it...when you touch the fruit it will basically fall of the stem into your hand) and it is excellent (sweetness and flavor).  Pick it too early and it will be on the tart side.

[Jacob13]

Very Nice Additions

[Cookie Monster]

What roostock are the ilamas grafted to?

[bsbullie]

What roostock are the ilamas grafted to?

They have been trying to use custard apple as the rootstock.

[Cookie Monster]

Ohh excellent.

What roostock are the ilamas grafted to?

They have been trying to use custard apple as the rootstock.

[Guanabanus]

I don't believe anyone here in Florida still has the 'Genova White' .  That would be some other fruit called 'White.'

[Cookie Monster]

Bummer. I just called and, indeed, they said that they didn't have the Genova White. I actually really liked the white ilamas. They have a soursoppy flavor to them, but without the acidity.

I don't believe anyone here in Florida still has the 'Genova White' .  That would be some other fruit called 'White.'

[mikesid]

There was another Ilama right next to  the Genova Red labeled white..I guess assumed it was a Genova White since I have heard of no other Ilama with white in its' name other than the Genova. They had the 'Pajapita', 'Genova Red' and the 'White'...Has anyone else heard of a 'White' Ilama? These were not near any of there other annonas that they showed me...

[Cookie Monster]

Interesting. Apparently the white cultivar is not well suited to the American (U.S.) palate, due to its lack of acidity. The red and pink fleshed cultivars seem to be the only ones propagated. I'll have to have my brother-in-law send me some budwood from the white fleshed ilama. The ones I had from El Salvador were delicious.

There was another Ilama right next to  the Genova Red labeled white..I guess assumed it was a Genova White since I have heard of no other Ilama with white in its' name other than the Genova. They had the 'Pajapita', 'Genova Red' and the 'White'...Has anyone else heard of a 'White' Ilama? These were not near any of there other annonas that they showed me...

[JF]

I wonder if your Genova Red is the same as Harry's? I though Nuathong and Phetpakchong were the same Atemoya?

JF

[murahilin]

I wonder if your Genova Red is the same as Harry's? I though Nuathong and Phetpakchong were the same Atemoya?

JF

In Florida, I think all the Genova Red's are the same. Something just got mixed up in CA.

Here is a post about the Nuathong and Phetpakchong. http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=979

[mikesid]

Here is the pic of the Pajapita and Genova Red...I threw in some of my other Annonas for good measure!

Pajapita


Genova Red


Nuathong


Phetpakchong


Lisa---sorry so blurry..using my crappy I-phone


Gefner

[bsbullie]

Ok, I saw the "White" illama today (only three of them...now two  ).  I asked Richard what it was.  He said it is from a white illama and its taste is very similar to a cherimoya of high quality/flavor.

[JF]

I wonder if your Genova Red is the same as Harry's? I though Nuathong and Phetpakchong were the same Atemoya?

JF

In Florida, I think all the Genova Red's are the same. Something just got mixed up in CA.

Here is a post about the Nuathong and Phetpakchong. http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=979

Mura

Are the Red Ilama's grafted? I wonder how it got mixed up. Cuban007 and I are guessing what we have here is a white Ilama. I'll have to wait for the fruit.

[JF]

Ok, I saw the "White" illama today (only three of them...now two  ).  I asked Richard what it was.  He said it is from a white illama and its taste is very similar to a cherimoya of high quality/flavor.

Hi Rob

What are the differences between the two Ilamas besides the color of the flesh?

[Cookie Monster]

Figures .. When I called they said they didn't have white. I would have gone up there to one if he'd told me that they had them :-(.

Ok, I saw the "White" illama today (only three of them...now two  ).  I asked Richard what it was.  He said it is from a white illama and its taste is very similar to a cherimoya of high quality/flavor.

[bsbullie]

Ok, I saw the "White" illama today (only three of them...now two  ).  I asked Richard what it was.  He said it is from a white illama and its taste is very similar to a cherimoya of high quality/flavor.

Hi Rob

What are the differences between the two Ilamas besides the color of the flesh?

While I have only tasted the Genova Red, Richard said it was more Cherimoya like in flavor profile/taste.  I did not ask if it was less prone to splitting (and I don't know if that is a Florida thing or not).

[bsbullie]

Figures .. When I called they said they didn't have white. I would have gone up there to one if he'd told me that they had them :-(.

Ok, I saw the "White" illama today (only three of them...now two  ).  I asked Richard what it was.  He said it is from a white illama and its taste is very similar to a cherimoya of high quality/flavor.

Who did you talk to ?  They may not have actually known as when I went to grab a Genova Red, I happened to see three pots marked "White" and had to ask Richard what they were.  Let me know if you want me to grab one for you (they are small, fairly fresh grafted).

[Guanabanus]

Never pick an Ilama before it has split--- it won't be as good!  Flesh color makes no difference on the splitting.

[bsbullie]

Never pick an Ilama before it has split--- it won't be as good!  Flesh color makes no difference on the splitting.

Thanks for that info, never cease t learn info from you, Har.  Have you tasted the "White" that Richard has ?  Any input/info on it ?

[emegar]

Just received an order of Ilama seeds from fruitlovers with instructions for germination recommending the use of gibberellic acid, or two months of cold stratification.  Obviously, who wants to wait two months to sow?  I've never used gibberellic acid to germinate seeds, though.  Can anyone recommend a site or post that gives good instructions for the beginner?  Also, can anyone recommend a source for purchasing gibberellic acid?

[Cookie Monster]

Hey Rob, if you can pull one aside, I'd be super grateful!!!

To me, the white ilama has more of a sweet soursop flavor. I don't think there is much variation in the ilama. I think there are basically 4 different types: pink fleshed with green skin (eg, Fairchild), pink fleshed with reddish skin (eg, Pajapita), red fleshed with green skin (eg, Genova White), and white fleshed with green skin (eg, Genova Red). Hopefully Har will chime in in case I'm missing one..

Figures .. When I called they said they didn't have white. I would have gone up there to one if he'd told me that they had them :-(.

Ok, I saw the "White" illama today (only three of them...now two  ).  I asked Richard what it was.  He said it is from a white illama and its taste is very similar to a cherimoya of high quality/flavor.

Who did you talk to ?  They may not have actually known as when I went to grab a Genova Red, I happened to see three pots marked "White" and had to ask Richard what they were.  Let me know if you want me to grab one for you (they are small, fairly fresh grafted).

[Guanabanus]

You got those two Genova's switched around. 

I brought in half-a-dozen other selections as well, and Fairchild and Bob Murray and others brought others in.  They are not limited to four or five cut-and-dried types.  And there are some bad ones.

[Cookie Monster]

Ohh duh :-). That was before I had my coffee :-).

You got those two Genova's switched around. 

[mikesid]

So I went back to Excalibur to look for the 'White' Ilama, and unfortunately there was no more .....hopefully they will be grafting more soon. I did see another Ilama I must have overlooked last time. It was a "Guillermo', so I picked that up. I also grabbed a grumichama cherry and a 'Mahachanok' Mango tree. Robert was helping me out and was going to look into the 'White' Ilama for me and find out when they would have more...I also wanted to get a 'Lemon Zest' mango but there seemed to be a mix up in the labels..I purchased a mango last week that I thought was 'Coconut Cream' but the pot only had OS written on it. Robert told me he thinks what I got was the 'Lemon Zest' last week. He told me to call back and he would figure out what happened with the labeling...Me, being an impatient person went over to Zill's and settled it....Zill's told me what I was sold last week was a 'Lemon Zest' as that is how they labeled the pots before naming the now "Orange Sherbert' and while I was at Zill's I picked up a very nice 'Coconut Cream', 'Sweet Tart' and 'Pina Colada'...I inquired about the 'Orange Sherbert' and told them how the conspiracy theories are abounding but they all laughed and said they weren't sure if they were going to release the tree at all for sale....who knows? The "Pina Colada' has four nice fruits on it so I hope they hold...There was a 'Coconut Cream' there with a few nice mangos on it but I opted for a larger one with more growth...I know there were some mixed reviews on the 'Sweet Tart' but they had nothing but good things to say about it...so I took a chance. Also I don't know if they normally sell to the public but I came to find out I work with a couple guys who grew up the owners kids so I had to do a bit of name dropping and I was good....either way there are 6 new trees in my yard today
will post pics later

[mikesid]

Here is the 'Sweet Tart'


'Coconut Cream'


'Pina Colada'

[mikesid]

Ilama 'Guillermo'


Grumichama Cherry---I believe these are always seedlings


Mango 'Mahachanok'

[Cookie Monster]

Very nice trees! The ilama guillermo looks like the cherimoya rootstock has overgrown the ilama. You might want to examine those two branches.

Ilama 'Guillermo'


Grumichama Cherry---I believe these are always seedlings


Mango 'mahachanok'

[mikesid]

Very nice trees! The ilama guillermo looks like the cherimoya rootstock has overgrown the ilama. You might want to examine those two branches.

AHHHH! you were right! I should've examined it closer.....luckily the grafted branch is still alive with a few leaves on it too...Thanks for calling me out!! that's why they make PM's..hahahaha...you probably saved my plant...thanks
I broke off the overgrown cherimoya rootstock
here is a pic now:

[Cookie Monster]

Excellent. I'm excited that they're using cherimoya for those. The guys in socal are going to pupe their pants when they find that out :-).

Very nice trees! The ilama guillermo looks like the cherimoya rootstock has overgrown the ilama. You might want to examine those two branches.

AHHHH! you were right! I should've examined it closer.....luckily the grafted branch is still alive with a few leaves on it too...Thanks for calling me out!! that's why they make PM's..hahahaha...you probably saved my plant...thanks
I broke off the overgrown cherimoya rootstock
here is a pic now:

[bsbullie]

Funny, I was going to say the same thing about the rootstock and the branches not looking like ilama.

[Guanabanus]

Partly right, but that rootstock is Pond-Apple.  I grafted that at Excalibur, on an EXPERIMENTAL batch of Pond-Apple seedlings.
If the graft is healthy a year from now, you should be good to go for heavy productivity, starting 3-5 years from now.  Pond-apple trees are very different from each other, even varying in chromosome numbers.  This seed source had not been evaluated, and most of the grafted plants looked terribly chlorotic, despite all my efforts with mineral supplements.  So the plant you have is a survivor, apparently better than the majority of the batch.

[Cookie Monster]

Ohh duh. Yah, cherimoya leaves are completely different. Wonder why the preference for using pond apple?

Partly right, but that rootstock is Pond-Apple.  I grafted that at Excalibur, on an EXPERIMENTAL batch of Pond-Apple seedlings.
If the graft is healthy a year from now, you should be good to go for heavy productivity, starting 3-5 years from now.  Pond-apple trees are very different from each other, even varying in chromosome numbers.  This seed source had not been evaluated, and most of the grafted plants looked terribly chlorotic, despite all my efforts with mineral supplements.  So the plant you have is a survivor, apparently better than the majority of the batch.

[Guanabanus]

I have long been, and continue to be, among those promoting experimentation with Pond-Apple (Annona glabra) rootstock, especially for Ilama. 

The most productive Ilamas I have seen in Florida are those grafted onto Pond-Apple from a good seed source at Zill's [one that Zill did not remember to move when he moved the nursery to Hypoluxo area (old nursery was completely bulldozed)] even when they have developed immense "elephant foot" (rootstock growing wider than scion).

On the other hand, the "successful" grafts (done at the same time as the above) that then died the quickest--- within six months--- were Ilamas grafted on Pond-Apple rootstocks from another source.  [The ones I did at Excalibur last year seemed to be of in-between quality.]

This should be described as experimental, and it would be preferable to hold the plants for observation until they have leafed out again the following year, before selling them. And they are then still experimental for the long term, as we haven't observed any much beyond 16 years.

[Mike T]

Pond apple was used as rootstock in northern australia for atemoya perhaps 50 or 60 years ago.They are considered a poor option and now atemoya rootstock is standard.Pond apple became feral threatening melaleuca swamps,streamline vegetation and wetland edges where it forms thickets.Cassowaries and flying foxes help its spread and it is considered a serious pest.Illamas are so rare around here I don't know what rootstocks are used but sugar apple is likely.I am yet to see the atemoya x illama that BMc spoke about in southern queensland.

[fruitlovers]

Pond apple was used as rootstock in northern australia for atemoya perhaps 50 or 60 years ago.They are considered a poor option and now atemoya rootstock is standard.Pond apple became feral threatening melaleuca swamps,streamline vegetation and wetland edges where it forms thickets.Cassowaries and flying foxes help its spread and it is considered a serious pest.Illamas are so rare around here I don't know what rootstocks are used but sugar apple is likely.I am yet to see the atemoya x illama that BMc spoke about in southern queensland.

Pond apple was used as a rootstock here by one nursery for cherimoya plants. They've since abandoned that as the pond apple tends to be too vigorous and often overtakes top growth due to suckering below graft union.

[Mike T]

I might say more on australian atemoya varieties.The recommended types for commercial growers in all areas especially if supplying the asiam market are KJ Pinks,Hillary White and Pinks Mammoth and in warmer areas Maroochy Gold.Tropic Sun is considered the best quality type for backyards and I don't know if it will be a commercially planted species.There is a big range on new generation superior clones that Depart. Prim. Indust. have been sitting on for a few years that annona folk are eagerly waiting on.Some are released tp private people and then are not pursued commercially and this may have happened with some of the atemoya X illamas.
Private people seem to breed and cross their own a fair bit also with differing amounts of sugar apple genes in the atemoyas.

[Mike T]

I think bullocks heart (custard apple) is still used a bit as rootstock and I don't know why pond apple was abandoned so long ago.It may have been forn the sme reason as what you describe fruitlovers.Pinks mammoth is extremely vigorous and over a 100 years old and pond apple would be working hard to out 'vigour' them.

[mikesid]

Partly right, but that rootstock is Pond-Apple.  I grafted that at Excalibur, on an EXPERIMENTAL batch of Pond-Apple seedlings.
If the graft is healthy a year from now, you should be good to go for heavy productivity, starting 3-5 years from now.  Pond-apple trees are very different from each other, even varying in chromosome numbers.  This seed source had not been evaluated, and most of the grafted plants looked terribly chlorotic, despite all my efforts with mineral supplements.  So the plant you have is a survivor, apparently better than the majority of the batch.

Should I be trying to supply this plant with extra micronutrients. Why do you think some took and some didn't? Was it a rootstock thing or grafting issue?

[bsbullie]

This thread is going south...

[Guanabanus]

Mikesid,
The grafts took.  It was a rootstock compatibility issue after the grafts had grown a few inches, as is usually the case with Pond-Apple rootstocks, until one finds a special seed source that is good.

Enduser,
Exact techniques for mass producing anything at a nursery is info generally held close to one's chest.  Cleft grafts and veneer grafts are the best for general information for producing a few plants, especially as these techniques tend to produce nice big plants right away.

[mikesid]

Mikesid,
The grafts took.  It was a rootstock compatibility issue after the grafts had grown a few inches, as is usually the case with Pond-Apple rootstocks, until one finds a special seed source that is good.

Enduser,
Exact techniques for mass producing anything at a nursery is info generally held close to one's chest.  Cleft grafts and veneer grafts are the best for general information for producing a few plants, especially as these techniques tend to produce nice big plants right away.

What defines a good seed source for pond apple? They grow like weeds in the park by my house and are dropping fruit constantly..Is there a desired trait to look for in the parent plant or have the seeds been crossed for intended use as root stock?

[Guanabanus]

It is not a matter of abundance of seeds.  A good seed source of Annona glabra is a tree whose seeds produce seedlings that are compatible with the type of scion to be grafted onto them.  This can be determined by grafting trials on 10-20 plants and then watching them for about 1 1/2 years.  I know of no other way.  We had a good tree for seeds in the 1990's, and published the results and showed pictures at the Florida State Horticultural Society.