Author Topic: Citrus damage after freeze  (Read 3955 times)

Perplexed

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Citrus damage after freeze
« on: December 23, 2022, 12:59:23 PM »
There is currently an ongoing hard freeze happening now and probably the weekend. I would like to hear any data of frost hardiness of any citrus varieties following the event. It's going to get doen to 10 degrees F here, so I'll record my data and not protect anything.

Unicyclemike

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2022, 03:25:23 PM »
I can't wait to hear your results.

Mike A.

Perplexed

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2022, 07:42:36 PM »
Went down to 9. I’ll figure out what is damaged or not probably after a few days since we’re still below freezing for over 24 hours.

vnomonee

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2022, 07:59:05 PM »
Following, and I'll report on these in a few days, low of 5f: *small update*

Yuzu on own roots somewhat protected (stacked bricks covering the main stems)- this one died to the ground last year at 6f with freezing rain- lots of damage on the top of leaves and tender growth turned white and burned

Yuzu on Poncirus -damaged leaves

Tai-tri own roots- leaves turning yellow no obvious damage to stems

Citrumelo own roots- leaves curling no obvious damage to stems

Morton on Tai-tri- scion looks a little dry

Morton on Citrumelo- scion looks a little dry

Prague on Tai-tri- whole branch turned slightly yellow (is this poncirus influence?) leaves turned yellow

Prague on Poncirus- top looks sun burned but lower part of plant is fine with green leaves

Ninkat x Poncirus- top looks sun burned but lower part of plant still holding leaves

random seedlings of kumquat and sour orange- some survivors of kumquat, sour orange very damaged, random yuzu seedling took almost no damage just top leaves

and of course Poncirus/+ which shouldn't have a problem- still holding leaves

Non-citrus:
Feijoa protected (agribon + incandescent lights)- healthy green color leaves look good, small amount of leaves closer to the top of the fabric slightly dry and light brown possible damaged from touching fabric

Feijoa unprotected - these dropped leaves  last year at 6f with freezing rain- light brown leaves definitely damaged not as bad as last year

Kadsura coccinea somewhat protected (stacked bricks and agribon small plant not a vine yet)- two tender young leaves turned brown at the top otherwise the whole seedling survived

Loquat small graft on apple- doesnt appear damaged
« Last Edit: December 29, 2022, 02:22:18 AM by vnomonee »

Perplexed

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2022, 09:11:47 PM »
I’ll report on these on Monday, should be above freezing on Monday and should be straight.

5* star citrumelo - Grafted
Dunstan citrumelo - own
Taitri - own
Ichang Papeda - Grafted
Dimicelli - Grafted
Ventura Lemandarin - own
Citrangremo -Grafted
F2 Cirus glauca/finger lime? - own
F2 Citrus australis - own
N1Tri x Citrus - own
Ichangstar60 x Citrus - own
Citrus hongheensis x Citrus - own
Razzlequat - own
Citrus taiwanica - own
Citrus glauca x shek - grafted
All grafted are on poncirus

I also have ornamental trees like Cinnamomum, and Persea I may report on.

« Last Edit: December 24, 2022, 09:21:08 PM by Perplexed »

tedburn

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2022, 09:31:32 AM »
@vnomonee and perplaxed, very interested in your results, though some damages are not seen now but only in april/ may. We had freeze in winter 2020/21 down to 3,6 F and after freeze I thought plants to be still green and don' t hit by freeze, but then they died until april/may.
We had a few days freeze in December down to 8,6 F (unusual for december) but up to now only a few new branches a little bit hurt, nearly no damages.

vnomonee

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2022, 01:36:44 AM »
Good point about plants later dying in the spring, that actually happened to my 4ft tall yuzu that ended up dying all the way to the ground in the spring. Had a look at some of the stuff today, I think the sunshine damaged the hardy plants more than the actual cold... am seeing what looks like sun burn/scald. Winter is far from over so there might be colder days. Hopefully not! 

« Last Edit: December 29, 2022, 01:46:25 AM by vnomonee »

Citradia

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2022, 08:39:52 AM »
I had a five-foot-tall citradia die one spring after it put out two inches of new growth after last freeze and noticed that the trunk split on south side of tree. I think it was a zero-degree winter that year.

Perplexed

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2022, 12:52:57 PM »
Not looking too good right now, but I’ll report later when things warm up after a while.

Millet

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2022, 02:10:47 PM »
It will be several months before you know he extent of damage.

tedburn

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2022, 02:48:32 PM »
I’ll report on these on Monday, should be above freezing on Monday and should be straight.

It also would be interesting, how d the grafted plants are and how long they have been planted in ground - thanks

5* star citrumelo - Grafted
Dunstan citrumelo - own
Taitri - own
Ichang Papeda - Grafted
Dimicelli - Grafted
Ventura Lemandarin - own
Citrangremo -Grafted
F2 Cirus glauca/finger lime? - own
F2 Citrus australis - own
N1Tri x Citrus - own
Ichangstar60 x Citrus - own
Citrus hongheensis x Citrus - own
Razzlequat - own
Citrus taiwanica - own
Citrus glauca x shek - grafted
All grafted are on poncirus

I also have ornamental trees like Cinnamomum, and Persea I may report on.

Unicyclemike

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2022, 06:11:05 PM »
My question is this.....How much time does it take from formation of flower bud to the actual picking of the fruit? Do they need as much time as apples.....ie May flowers bloom.... to Sept./Oct when the fruit is usually ripened....

poncirsguy

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2022, 10:44:10 PM »
April flowers ='s  December fruit.

vnomonee

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2022, 11:03:36 PM »
Depends on the citrus. Some ripen their fruit by fall. Others over the winter or into spring which won't work for me outdoors. I'm only collecting hardy varities that can ripen by the fall, with some exceptions I'm not sure when ninkat x poncirus ripens and pretty sure Yuzu won't color up until December which is too late but then again some citrus can be used before they are ripe. they will be sour, so can be used like a lemon. I don't plan to eat anything hardy I grow fresh off the tree will have to be processed in some way.   

My question is this.....How much time does it take from formation of flower bud to the actual picking of the fruit? Do they need as much time as apples.....ie May flowers bloom.... to Sept./Oct when the fruit is usually ripened....

Citradia

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2023, 09:00:25 PM »
I was having lows in single digits two days in a row with a known low of 2 degrees F, and not above freezing day and night from Friday through sometime the following Tuesday last week. I also lost power for two hours and couldn’t get generator started Friday morning as temperatures plunged to 8 degrees with a high that day of 11 degrees. All of my store-quality citrus have massive leaf damage but no trunk splits noted yet. Most of my Citradia trees, Dunstan, 80-5, Thomasville, Benton citrange that are unprotected only showing mild to moderate leaf damage. One large citradia on east side of an unheated cold frame with yuzu in it actually looks unscathed for now. The yuzu in unheated frame looks remarkably good with some leaf damage only.

I had to cut back on my use of space heaters due to inadequate amount of electricity to support my 15 outdoor trees in cold frames covered in 4 mil plastic sheeting. Each frame has potted citrus seedlings and grafted trees also. The poncirus hybrids even the newly grafted potted ones are unscathed.

My winners for this event so far with only one 250 watt space heater inside each enclosure are:
Saint Anne Satsuma ; only a few burnt leaves.

Seedless Changsha on flying dragon; few burnt leaves only.

Meiwa kumquat ; no leaf damage but lost all fruit.

Trees with moderate leaf damage in frames:
Croxton
Owari
Kimbrough
Seville sour orange : all fruit lost
Bergamot
Yuzu: unheated frame w 50 gallon water barrel

Trees with severe leaf loss:
Rio Red grapefruit : fruit lost
Changsha : unprotected
Shiranui
Sugar Belle
Ichang lemon

All frames have at least one water barrel and all at least one 250 watt space heater w larger frames having two heaters and two or three barrels.
I’m having another electric outlet installed outside by electrician next Monday.


tedburn

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2023, 03:42:36 AM »
interesting post, big job 😉.
Could you also measure the deepest temperatures which the different citrus has to support, this would be interesting to judge the frosthardiness which the digferent cultivars did take. I understand that the 2° F have been outside and not in the tunnels ?

Citradia

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2023, 07:34:07 AM »
Yes, the 2 degrees F was outside temperature. I have used a digital thermometer about 6 years ago and noticed that the Rio Red got down to 19 degrees inside tent with heater on when it was zero degrees outside. The tree survived with minimal leaf damage. During that polar vortex, the outside temperature dropped a degree every minute as soon as sun went down, and dropped a degree every few seconds inside tent when heater turned off. This proved to me that I have to have heaters and cover citrus to keep them alive here.

tedburn

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2023, 02:04:18 PM »
thanks, very interesting. I planted some 2 year old seedlings of Star ruby Grapefruit in front of my Glasshouse and protected them with air bubble fleece. I had inside the protection -8° C while outside we had - 13° after a few days with freeze and the seedlings had nearly no damage, so I was astonished how much they can take - and corresponds to your results with your Rio Reds.

Citradia

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2023, 08:23:15 PM »
Another problem I am facing is that since my trees have grown bigger over the past ten years, I’ve made my cold frames larger, so now I have more air space to heat inside the enclosures, which means adding heaters. I’ve added more water barrels, but it becomes a volumetric math problem to figure how much supplemental heating I need for the size of the enclosure. I think the size of the tree itself is a factor also since it also takes up air space and it’s canopy helps hold heat under it. I also have fewer potted seedlings inside my enclosures this year also. The watered pots also add a passive heating effect and reduce the amount of air volume my small heater has to heat up.

Millet

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2023, 04:36:21 PM »
You could always use the 4 X 8 silver sided sheets of polyurethane on three of the sides of your enclosures instead of plastic sheets..  These are sold at Home Depot.

Citradia

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2023, 09:44:03 PM »
Thanks, Millet.

hardyvermont

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2023, 10:06:27 PM »
8 F, 13 C was not cold enough to differentiate a lot between most hardy citrus.  Both types of 10 Degree Tangerine appear to be more sensitive to the cold than expected, leaves curled more than most.  Brown Select, Changsha, Keraji appear to have done well.  Sugar Belle will probably lose its leaves, but seems to have survived. 

Oolie

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2023, 12:04:21 AM »
I wasn't in Alabama for it, but the day before Christmas was a low of 16 and a high of 30 https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/@z-us-36360/historic?month=12&year=2022. All first year unprotected citrus defoliated, and many branches died. I may be looking at a few trees that are now rootstocks.

Either way, I suspect Keraji will rebound, as well as Meyer lemon, but 88-2, and Shiranui look pretty poor, and I don't think the limequat will return either. Loquat lost tender new growth and is flushing again. Butias have no damage. Feijoas are perfect.

tedburn

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2023, 01:59:11 AM »
8 F, 13 C was not cold enough to differentiate a lot between most hardy citrus.  Both types of 10 Degree Tangerine appear to be more sensitive to the cold than expected, leaves curled more than most.  Brown Select, Changsha, Keraji appear to have done well.  Sugar Belle will probably lose its leaves, but seems to have survived.
Interesting information, we also went down to 8° F in December and also have nearly no or no damage, but most of my trees have been fleece protected except Ivia and HRS899. Did you have your trees unprotected and how old are they. Interesting especially for Keraji and ten degree - thanks.

hardyvermont

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2023, 03:43:40 AM »
Did you have your trees unprotected and how old are they. Interesting especially for Keraji and ten degree -

Trees were unprotected.  They are about 4-5 years in ground, 1 to 4 meters tall.  Shaded leaves looked best.


tedburn

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2023, 03:51:02 AM »
Hardyvermont, thank you. Good information. Also interesting that Sugarbelle ( tangelo minneola?) can take so deep cold, thought that she get killed earlier.
Mine are 2 and 3 winters now in ground and the biggest are Sanford Curafora and Keraji with about 1,5 m hight.

manfromyard

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2023, 11:55:38 AM »
I was in Tennessee when the cold hit.All my citrus had extreme leaf damage. A huge issue is that it stayed so warm before and after. Icang, Thomasville, Meyer, all with what looks like >90% leaf loss. Even my two rosemary bushes got burnt badly.

edweather

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2023, 11:12:27 PM »
Wow, that was a cold snap. We had a 5 day cold snap, and the temps were in the low 20s for 4 straight nights. We picked the fruit ahead of time, and used propane patio heaters and box fans to try and keep our 5 trees warm. Noticing leaf drop, but not much damage. Thankfully no blossoms or tender growth.
 

Perplexed

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2023, 02:45:20 PM »
Can't say for sure now until spring or summer, but here is an minor update so far. 9F.

Citrus taiwanica has some stem damage and leaves still attached, looks sad. It's a 1 year old seedling so it might get hardier over time.

TaiTri looks good, just some minor defoliating no stem damage.

5* Citrumelo is the same boat, leaves dropped but no stem damage.

N1Tri x Citrus,  Ichangstar60 x Citrus, Citrus hongheensis x Citrus lost label for them so its F2 of one of these three. Some appear dead visually and all of them are defoliated but some have green stems.

More updates in May for more accuracy regarding if any will resprout.

Some ornamentals like Persea liebmannii are unphased.

Perplexed

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2023, 02:45:43 PM »
Over 36 hours below freezing also

orangedays

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2023, 07:58:03 PM »
I can finally estimate the damage to my citrus hybrids after this  December's freeze. The temperature dropped to 11 F and stayed below freezing for around 48 hours after a warm mild Fall. I had a variety of crosses to a Dustan citrumelo seedling. I planted these in a row in a very exposed area, with  a changsha seedling every fourth tree to act as a control. These were all 3 years old and stem diamerter any were from 1/3rd to 1 inch thick and mainly bushy around 3-5 feet tall. The chansha were around 6-7 ft.  The idea is the seedling should do at least better than changsha to be worth keeping, that is they stems stayed a healthy green and  now showing signs of regrowth.

3 of 9 Changsha X Dustan are keepers
4 of 15 Juanita (f2) X Dustan are keepers
1 of 3 Owarie X Dustan are keepers

These all lost all or most of their leaves. The changsha seedlings were interesting. They all died back to some extent. The stems did not crack but developed a grayish cast. They were all around 6-7 ft tall.  Overall they look worse than they were. Some are dead to almost to the ground while other are sprouting from the grayish stems over 5 ft and growing well. Spring has come on so early this year, I think they are all at risk and I may lose them still. But as controls they had more variability than I expected.

Of the poncirus hybrids, most appear to have very little damage. The PT X Hamlin suffer the most. I think the mulch formed a frozen crust around the trunks as the damage is on the primary stems where the stalk leaves the mulch. 3 of the 17  changsha X PT died, the rest look unharmed. All 3 fukushu X PT hybrids look well. I also planted out 5 Hirado Butan X PT f3? seedlings (from hardyvermont). These were small and under heavy mulch. They all survived and look pretty good. I lost several tangelos, red grapefruit, Hamlin, and Amber sweet that were under cover with a 60 gallon water barrel. The Okitsu tangerine under cover with water barrel, came through all green and leafy.  I hope to cross it with Dustan this spring if we don’t have a late freeze...

johngonole

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2023, 01:42:22 AM »
We had four or five days in a row of subfreezing temperature going down into the low 20s three nights in a row.   Even during the day it didn't break 32.    Lost our Meyer Lemon.   Had two Owari Satsumas that were young trees.   Lost about a years worth of growth.   Smaller branches on the perimeter of the trees died.    I only covered them with light covers.  I have no doubt these trees would go undamaged with typical North Florida freeze where it only drops below 32 for a few hours or only had low 20s maybe one night out of the season.    But we had a long sustained freeze.    Overall pleased since all other citrus I have tried growing in N. Florida haven't lasted a single winter. 

Millet

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2023, 06:01:34 PM »
In Florida try covering them with a heaver covering, and put an light bulb under the covering. Not LED type.

tedburn

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2023, 06:14:46 PM »
thank you .
Thats also a point that freeze abd sun is extreme challenging and shade helps a lot to get minor damage.

Citradia

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2023, 09:51:06 PM »
I’m so discouraged after the hard December freeze, I am close to quitting citrus altogether. I lost or suffered severe damage to everything except poncirus. My power was out for two hours during a 2 degree freeze with a high of 8 degrees and below freezing for about five days. That means my heaters were off in cold frames and we couldn’t get generator to start to get heaters back on. Then, I figured out I had used too long of an extension cord to supply power to my heaters in the valley orchard, so basically those citrus got no power or heat all winter until after the week of hard freeze, so they’re all dead except the side of the yuzu that was literally touching the side of the big water barrel.

Total losses:
Rio Red grapefruit ( heaters too small)
Seville
Bergamot ( too damaged to keep but alive)
Shiranui ( valley- no power)
Sugar Belle ( valley-no power)
Ichang lemon ( valley-no power)
Citradia air layer ( covered only, no barrel)
Citradia on poncirus air layer unprotected
Citrumelo 80-5 unprotected
Thomasville unprotected
Dunstan unprotected
Benton unprotected

Alive but severely damaged by house and got power back after two hours without it:
Owari
Kimbrough

Minimal leaf loss or tips of leaves damaged with power off two hours:
Seedless Changsha on flying dragon
Meiwa kumquat ( gets heat from French drain on south side of house)
Croxton grapefruit ( French drain south side of the house)
Saint Anne ( has two large barrels up against west side of tree)

My best survivors that didn’t have ground heat from French drain and only water barrels in a cold frame when heaters went out are Saint Anne and Changsha. My potted grafted-on-poncirus citrumelos and citradia trees were also undamaged.


« Last Edit: March 07, 2023, 09:56:33 PM by Citradia »

vnomonee

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2023, 10:13:21 PM »
We got down to 5f for a few hours one day and then again 1f for a few hours later on. My tai-tri and citrumelo unprotected look alive, just some tip damage on younger growth. Prague grafts on taitri and poncirus look ok, some brown spots (maybe mandarin cells damaged?). Ninkat x poncirus lost youngest growth but otherwise alive. all poncirus+ and precocious poncirus is alive. yuzu is dead to the base again. morton graft on citrumelo dead, morton on tai-tri looks alive.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2023, 12:27:23 AM by vnomonee »

tedburn

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2023, 12:21:51 AM »
I’m so discouraged after the hard December freeze, I am close to quitting citrus altogether. I lost or suffered severe damage to everything except poncirus. My power was out for two hours during a 2 degree freeze with a high of 8 degrees and below freezing for about five days. That means my heaters were off in cold frames and we couldn’t get generator to start to get heaters back on. Then, I figured out I had used too long of an extension cord to supply power to my heaters in the valley orchard, so basically those citrus got no power or heat all winter until after the week of hard freeze, so they’re all dead except the side of the yuzu that was literally touching the side of the big water barrel.

Total losses:
Rio Red grapefruit ( heaters too small)
Seville
Bergamot ( too damaged to keep but alive)
Shiranui ( valley- no power)
Sugar Belle ( valley-no power)
Ichang lemon ( valley-no power)
Citradia air layer ( covered only, no barrel)
Citradia on poncirus air layer unprotected
Citrumelo 80-5 unprotected
Thomasville unprotected
Dunstan unprotected
Benton unprotected

Alive but severely damaged by house and got power back after two hours without it:
Owari
Kimbrough

Minimal leaf loss or tips of leaves damaged with power off two hours:
Seedless Changsha on flying dragon
Meiwa kumquat ( gets heat from French drain on south side of house)
Croxton grapefruit ( French drain south side of the house)
Saint Anne ( has two large barrels up against west side of tree)

My best survivors that didn’t have ground heat from French drain and only water barrels in a cold frame when heaters went out are Saint Anne and Changsha. My potted grafted-on-poncirus citrumelos and citradia trees were also undamaged.

Oh Ctradia,that s really hard, I' m sorry for you. But don ' t skip your citrus,  enjoy your survivors and perhaps invest in more hardier citrus as Prague and keep them on Poncirus.
And perhaps optimize still your passive protection with water barrels and fleece and perhaps places with not to early winter sun.
Enjoy the new sprouts of your survivors.
Regards Frank

Citradia

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2023, 07:34:44 AM »
Thanks, tedburn. I’m planning on putting my Prague on poncirus and citrumelo on poncirus that are currently in pots in ground in cold frames to test them out for next winter. I’m scaling back though. I’ve had too much to protect. Too much work for no reward. It also looks bad having tent city in the yard seven months out of the year.

Perplexed

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2023, 09:08:28 AM »
So far only 5* citrumelo, taitri, and dragon lime are showing signs of life and are flushing now. Everything else is either dead or major stem dieback, but the wood for the some species is still green. Will be more specific probably in May or Summer so I can see the full extent of damage.

manfromyard

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2023, 08:02:16 AM »
Thanks, tedburn. I’m planning on putting my Prague on poncirus and citrumelo on poncirus that are currently in pots in ground in cold frames to test them out for next winter. I’m scaling back though. I’ve had too much to protect. Too much work for no reward. It also looks bad having tent city in the yard seven months out of the year.

I have also started scaling back. I have bought  a few replacements, but now will be maintaining less trees. The hardiest ones stay, but I've reduced my plants by a lot.

hardyvermont

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Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2023, 04:58:52 PM »
8 F, 13 C was not cold enough to differentiate a lot between most hardy citrus.  Both types of 10 Degree Tangerine appear to be more sensitive to the cold than expected, leaves curled more than most.  Brown Select, Changsha, Keraji appear to have done well.  Sugar Belle will probably lose its leaves, but seems to have survived.
As Millet said, more time was needed to find the true amount of damage, which was much worse than initially appeared.  Posted elsewhere on this forum are the evaluations.