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Messages - HIfarm

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Inga as windbreak
« on: October 28, 2020, 09:13:41 PM »

How windy is your area? What is the highest speed winds the ingas were exposed to?

We typically have almost constant breeze here but generally not very strong.  For the most part, the trees are not breaking or coming down during high wind.  I just had another split near the base since starting this thread (need to check, I think it is a feuillei but might be a striata).  We've had some rain but not unusually strong winds.  That being said, I am right along the Honoli'i.  I think sometimes there are some weird wind patterns because of the pali.  Perhaps it is abrupt changes in wind direction causing the problem.  I have seen wind changing direction maybe 120 degrees or more within a couple of minutes max.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Inga as windbreak
« on: October 27, 2020, 01:01:03 PM »
I have seen farms in windy areas with whole rows of big jackfruit as windbreaks and they do well. Inga edulis is also used occasionally here and they get big. Having soft brittle wood they are prone to snapping off limbs in strong winds.

Thanks for the info, Mike.  Artocarpus seemed like they would be tough enough to serve well for windbreak & nice to have your confirmation on it.  I kind of expected that the inga would loose a branch from time to time (as a general rule of thumb, it seems like trees that grow real fast aren't real tough).  However having them just flop out of the ground has been upsetting.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Inga as windbreak
« on: October 27, 2020, 12:38:08 PM »

Here in Puna rocky soil they sure don't behave like in your clay. I suppose the wet soft clay could be too weak to hold them?

Maybe this is true.  The ones that have just fallen over have not had breaks in the main roots.  Most of the main roots are right on top of the soil.  It almost looks like the roots were not able to grip the soil and just slid. 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Inga as windbreak
« on: October 26, 2020, 12:34:52 PM »
My experience is very different from yours John. I have ingas as windbreak and never had an inga tree fall over, and in 30 years never had a single branch break. I'm wondering if you have some kind of root damage from weevils or other insects, or boring insects in the branches causing your problems?

Thanks for the input, Oscar.  It certainly doesn't make me feel any better.  I know that the branches are clear of boring insects since there is no sign of anything at the break point or when I chop them up.  I suppose that there could be something going on in the roots as I have not tried to pull the stumps.  The trees look healthy & vigorous, bearing multiple crops per year, no hints until the tree is suddenly down.  Maybe I have pissed off some menehune....

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Inga as windbreak
« on: October 26, 2020, 12:25:59 AM »
Oh, donít wish to talk bad about a fruit on account of my possible misidentification. Hereís what Iím calling feuillei

I love feijoa flowers, edulis makes the list

That looks like what I have as feuillei.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Inga as windbreak
« on: October 26, 2020, 12:24:12 AM »
What do you think about Jakfruit as a windbreak?
Just wondering.

Pandanus (hala) seem like they would be a bit slow and a bit too "airy" to be very good but maybe not with multiple rows of windbreak.  I really like hala and planted a variegated one in my front yard that was supposed to be P. tectorius but ended up being some other species that just formed a huge dome.  It ended up maybe 10' tall and about 16' diameter before I took the chainsaw to it.  Man, what a job to chop that beast out -- heavy trunks laying along the ground, intertwining and rooting as they went.

I have a friend who is very hot on artocarpus for windbreak.  I don't think he has any practical experience with it yet (at least not long enough to say yes or no).  I am planning on putting jackfruit and pedalai in to replace the inga (gradual transition).  I suspect it should work out ok.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Inga as windbreak
« on: October 26, 2020, 12:07:18 AM »
Good info, thanks for sharing your experience

As for eating, which do you prefer? Iíve only tried feuillei, good flavor, but terrible mass of chewy paper pulp.

I like them all.  I think I like striata a little more than feuillei.  My spectabilis bore for the first time earlier this year, only one pod and I missed it -- thought it had a little longer to good but I guess not.  I also like edulis but I think a little less than the other two.  The first edulis pods I harvested were a little too early (they looked big but still developed more girth with time) so the arils was a bit small and were not too sweet but were nice additions in salads.  Later, they were much sweeter.

I don't feel any ingas I have tried so far are anything you'd want to binge on day after day but they are nice for a change of pace from time to time.  I haven't really felt like they had a papery pulp but maybe individuals trees or just personal preference.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Inga as windbreak
« on: October 25, 2020, 04:20:57 PM »
After just cutting up another Inga tree that came down the other day without any strong winds, I thought it might be useful to post about them.  I have seen references to their use as windbreaks a number of time so utilized them in mine.  I have planted feuillei, striata, edulis, and spectabilis.  I have found feuillei to be pretty much useless.  This last one is the 3rd or 4th that have fallen over or split and come down.  I also had one that started to fall over but I pulled it upright with my tractor, cut branches off one side to reduce weight on that side, and staked it back up with t-posts.  I have also had a few instances of large branches breaking on these.  Surprisingly, I don't recall them breaking when we were experiencing any especially strong winds.

The root system seems to run very shallow along the top of the soil.  I do not know if this is typical or a function of our clay soil and abundant rainfall.  I suspect that this is a big factor in them just falling over.

I have had one or two cases of striata breaking limbs but no tree failures so far (knock on wood).  I have not had problems with the edulis or spectabilis to date.  These trees have a more vase-like structure rather than spreading like feuillei (although I must admit I pruned the feuillei and striata to encourage a denser, spreading canopy).  The spectabilis and edulis were also put in later and are a bit smaller than the other two species.

I just wanted to raise a red flag for anyone who may be considering these for windbreak duty.  I liked the idea of getting fruit from the windbreak and getting the bonus of nitrogen fixation.  I am kicking myself now for having used them as I am spending time I could spend on the orchard with cleaning up these things and just praying that they don't take out my hogwire fence when they come down.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Overrated Tropical Fruits
« on: October 19, 2020, 03:51:52 PM »
As others have said, this is subjective and it is best if you can try them yourself.  It is no great consolation if most people like something but you don't.  Someone mentioned rainforest plum above.  One of my trees bore for the first time this year.  I ate a few off the tree and I thought it was quite nice, there was a grapey element (including a bit of that foxy element like a concord) but had other fruit notes as well.  I picked a bunch to share with my wife and they sat on the counter for 6-8 hours.  When we had them together, the foxiness was much more pronounced, other flavors lessened, and astringency seemed more noticeable.  I don't know if this is a result of sitting for a few hours but I can think of no other explanation.  It went from very nice in my book to pretty unremarkable.  I'll have to revisit this in the future.

Someone also mentioned mamey sapote above.  This is not one of my favorites out of hand but I challenge you to find a tastier ice cream than mamey ice cream.


Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: Syzygium alliligneum
« on: October 19, 2020, 03:24:13 PM »
Hey Mike, how big (high) do these have to get to start to fruit?  I've got a couple (thanks to you!) planted out and the larger is maybe 10'.  I found one of these seedlings to be totally unaffected by our eugenia blight here but the other was set back severely by it for a bit but has recovered  somewhat (it doesn't affect all Myrtaceae but the local rose apples here all have severe cases and cedar bay cherries seem to be hard hit as well).

Any idea about how many years to flowering?  I'll be interested in hearing reports on the flavor, I've got a few seedlings.  The flowers are really impressive so, if for nothing else, I can find room for them for that.


Tropical Fruit Online Library / Re: 1986 Species of Amazonian flora
« on: September 13, 2020, 04:00:39 PM »
Thanks for posting this.  I usually find checklists to be annoying as they often just list species found somewhere without any information about the species.  However, this one looks like they have the intent of eventually entering content about the various species.  It could be pretty useful if they do that.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: A Star is borne
« on: September 09, 2020, 01:54:58 AM »
It is amazing with all the wonderful fruits you are always coming up with, Mike.  Those are pretty impressive starapples!


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: A successful mulberry to jackfruit graft
« on: September 04, 2020, 03:27:23 PM »
It's not too uncommon to do this type of grafting with temperate fruit trees & ornamentals (with other members of the same broad family).  As beicadad mentioned, apple to hawthorn is one which is reported to work (which obviously didn't for him).  Another is mountain ash to pear.  I had one of these grafts survive many years with fine growth, flowering, and fruiting.  After maybe 8 years or so, the tree just snapped off at the graft union, where it had obviously never really made a sound union from an "engineering" standpoint but seemed to horticulturally up to that point.  So I'd wait a good many years before assuming it is really a success.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: ID Please
« on: September 04, 2020, 02:31:42 PM »
The Meiogyne sounds like a plausible guess, Adam at FFF has supplied a lot of seeds & plants in FL.  Hopefully he will see this & chime in.  You could also try a google search on the group for Meiogyne / fingersop, I'm sure there are posts regarding it.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Yellow pulusan
« on: September 03, 2020, 01:17:30 PM »
Hi John,  the fruit is not really free stone which seems kind of typical with pulusan compared to freestone rambutan.  The flavor is good.
No, freestone pulasan seems to be more uncommon.  We had a tasting of some superior dark red/maroon/black pulasan here at the USDA in Hilo a few years back.  I believe there were maybe 4 different selections, all were big with great flavor and most were freestone or nearly so.  The director at the time was considering releasing some of these to cultivation but he is gone and evidently so is the planned release(?).

Sounds like your yellow is a winner regardless.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Yellow pulusan
« on: September 03, 2020, 12:33:20 PM »
It looks like you've found a really interesting pulasan, Peter.  The color sure is unique.  Sounds like the flavor is really nice, is the fruit freestone or clingstone (or something in between)? 


Thanks, Mike, it looks like a great doc.  It is going to take a while to wade through it & absorb all the info.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Byrsonima lucida
« on: September 01, 2020, 01:04:13 AM »
Hi Mike,

Hope you are doing well.  I haven't heard any taste reports for lucida.  I have a verbacifolia that has been bearing for a couple of years or so.  I think Helton described it as delicious.  Typically, the fruit goes from hard & green to ... gone (I've never seen a bird in the bush but I suspect it must be birds).  I've been able to try some with just a hint of yellow but they have still been hard & unpleasant (astringent if I recall correctly).

I've gotten nance seeds a couple of times and never got any germination.  I got the verbacifolia seeds years ago from Brazil and only one of those germinated so I don't know if they are typically tough to germinate but they have been for me (although I suspect they germinate much better after passing through a bird's GI tract).


What?  No Moreton Bay bugs on the barbie???  I know, you love prawns but what's love got to do with it?  Nice to see you back posting prolifically, Mike.  It will be good to be seeing your sage advice again.

Sorry for hijacking the thread, Jake.



It looks like many of these are Cerrado species.  Would any grow in areas with wetter, more uniform rainfall?  What is Maltese Annona?  I can't seem to find any information on it.
I have success, you can read my experience post

I had seen your earlier post.  Germinating the seeds is not the issue.  It is whether the plants will survive long term (for years, to maturity) in another environment with more uniform rainfall.  I have had some Cerrado plants survive for a year or two, sometimes maybe a little more, but eventually die.  Of course, some will die much quicker.

Hello my dear, let me know how many seeds of each species you intend to buy, and the full address so I can calculate the shipping cost for sending the seeds.
We have the following species:
Annona spinesces $ 3.00 each
Annona vepretorum $ 3.00 each
Annona coriacea $ 3.00 each
Annona dioica $ 3.00 each
Annona salzmanii $ 2.00 each
Annona crassiflora $ 1.50 each
Maltese Annona $ 1.50 each.

Thank you

It looks like many of these are Cerrado species.  Would any grow in areas with wetter, more uniform rainfall?  What is Maltese Annona?  I can't seem to find any information on it.

I have confirmed with Dr. Onana at the University of Yaounde (author of the revision of African Dacryodes that appears in the library section here) that D. microphylla does not exist as a validly published species nor as a synonym for another species.  He does indicate that D. macrophylla is now present in the markets in Yaounde and suggests that, as MS suggests, pictures of the fruit or, preferably the fruit & leaves,  would clear up what you are offering.

Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: Looking for Pili nut!
« on: August 10, 2020, 03:12:23 PM »
You probably want to make sure to plant a few trees.  Pili nut is dioecious (male & female on separate plants).  (I hate to bring this up, since someone always seems to know of a tree somewhere that is self-fruiting.  However, I would hate to plant one tree and find it never fruits so I wanted to bring this to your attention.)

John Mood had been a big proponent of pili nut and probably was responsible for a lot of interest in it here.  However, a few years back, HTFG has a guest speaker in from Africa (Paul Noren) and we got a private tour of the Hilo USDA facility.  We tried C. harveyi and we both felt it was at least as good, probably better, than pili and was very heavy bearing.  If you request pili nut seed from them, maybe you should also request the harveyi as well (and, yes, harveyi is also dioecious).


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