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Messages - Florian

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Citrus General Discussion / Re: Curly leaf citron
« on: March 15, 2023, 10:56:53 AM »
Here's an interesting paper "Gastronomy and the citron tree":
I myself acquired a "Mangiali" last year but it has not flowered yet.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Honey Pomelo seedlings
« on: February 11, 2023, 12:26:04 PM »
I'm glad the seedling fruits are not exactly like the parent fruit. My pomelo seedling took 7 yrs to fruit and it is much better tasting than the sour fruits of the parent tree (which i got rid of). Now I have a very good fruiting seedling pomelo.

Florian, yes, please take a few photos of your seedling so I can compare how the leaves will look like when my seeds start to grow. I plan to let each of my seedlings grow until they fruit.

Plantinyum, can you take some photos of you 3yr old honey pomelo seedling and post it here, would like to have it for future reference.

Here you go. One of my seedlings.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Interesting kumquat and other hybrids in Argentina
« on: February 08, 2023, 07:31:12 AM »
Sounds like a nice and knowledgeable guy on Youtube. It helps if you speak Spanish ;D. I would certainly like to see the crosses involving Citrus hystrix.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Honey Pomelo seedlings
« on: January 29, 2023, 02:24:05 PM »
Florian, I know its been 3 yrs now, just wondering how your seedling Honey Pomelo are doing ?

I'm planning to grow out some seeds myself.

I left them in the community pot for quite a while and only separated them last year. Also, I just let them sit in the corner and leglected them. They have grown quite a bit anyway but could be bigger, of course. I will take a photo when I get around to it..

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« on: January 25, 2023, 07:36:07 AM »
I have read that the growth habit of Flying Dragon is caused by one dominant gene or allel. So it could easily be outbread. But that would also mean that there is perhaps not one Flying Dragon around but many Flying Dragons with different genealogies, different numbers of zygotic seeds, different taste etc.
What is your impression? I have not much experience with Flying Dragon myself.

I have thought so before. The description from The Citrus Industry Vol. 1 (1967) cited by the UCR website says: Grown primarily as a potted plant, this is a highly dwarfed variety with very small leaves, the leaflets of which are commonly reduced to linear filaments, and slender crooked branches armed with large, downward-curved spines.. My flying dragon certainly does not have linear filaments as leaves. Also, I have tried to pollinate it a few times and not once had a hybrid which one would expect in a 50 % zygotic plant. And all of my seedlings are dwarfed and contorted; there has never been a regular type seedling.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« on: January 10, 2023, 05:24:49 AM »
Citrandarin US 852 and Sacaton Citrumelo are known to produce only about 50% or so nucellar seeds. Also, Ilya has made many hybrids with his Citrumelo 5*. I would prefer the 5* over Sacaton since the latter tastes awful even for a Citrumelo.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Nansho Daidai and other Taiwanica cultivars
« on: December 14, 2022, 04:26:28 PM »
I wasn't aware that there were different cultivars of C. taiwanica. To me Nansho daidai is just the vernacular name of C. taiwanica.
Anyway, here's C. taiwanica in Eisenhut nursery (their Nr. 171):


Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Can you order cold hardy citrus
« on: December 07, 2022, 08:24:57 AM »
There is for example a nursery in France that has citrus fruit baskets now, but it is tied to what is ripe at this time. Not everything in it is cold hardy either. I've seen them sold containing Keraji, Ichang Lemon, and of course Yuzu and Satsuma. Throughout the year they sell citrus to restaurants. The window of ripe fruit is quite small, they are not processed and treated for storage in the way they do in commercial fruit nurseries.

There is not much commercial fruit cultivation of the hardy varieties, and if there is, then they will likely not have a wide range of varieties. Only something like satsuma and Yuzu I expect.

Best you can do is contact/visit nurseries that sell hardy citrus plants and ask what is ripe on the trees at that time. Or ask in citrus facebook groups or forums.

He's in the US, many US states can't even import citrus from other states, let alone from abroad.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Pigmented hybrids from Italy.
« on: November 25, 2022, 02:35:34 PM »
Early Sicily looks very nice, congrats! You say it tastes like a very sweet orange. Is there also enough acidity or not?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« on: November 23, 2022, 09:07:39 AM »
Unless proven otherwise, I will assume you did everything right and the test worked fine thus your Kabosu is free of Tristeza. I don't have it exactly because I was told by the French that it had Tristeza. Might just get it some time after all..

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Huge clementines
« on: November 19, 2022, 01:57:06 PM »
Normal clemintine or nule time is Dec to Jan, so they could be off season fruits, or produced in other weather areas, South America? Africa? or India.   

If they contain a lot of seeds, they could be cross pollinated fruits, which could be bigger with rough rind.

I went back and checked. They are from Spain, it says Class I. No seeds so far. Clemenules are in supermarkets everywhere now but they are all normal size.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Huge clementines
« on: November 16, 2022, 09:04:53 AM »
Thanks, that is an interesting point. So, perhaps Lidl bought all the off-season fruit to offer them cheaper. I will have to buy a normal-sized one somewhere else and compare the taste.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Thomasville v. Morton?
« on: November 16, 2022, 06:55:34 AM »
I also enjoy Thomasville, it is sweet when fully ripe. Haven't tried Morton.

Citrus General Discussion / Huge clementines
« on: November 15, 2022, 02:29:13 PM »
So, I found these clementines today at Lidl. They were all very big, each weighing over 200g. They were labeled Clemenules but the Clemenules I am used to are half that size. The skin is somewhat pebbled and although some were a bit puffy the taste was excellent. Do you think this is Clemenules or something else?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrumelo Nr. 82
« on: November 12, 2022, 05:33:26 PM »
Only four fruit on my potted and none on my in-ground tree this year (no flowers yet). I picked one yesterday to see how it was and tried peeling it just for the sake of it. Still the best Poncirus hybrid I have tasted (and I still haven't tried 5*). I will leave one or two fruits a bit longer on the tree to see how they turn out.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: October 31, 2022, 04:10:41 AM »
First 5* Citrumelo mature fruit sampled on 3 year old trees. The fruit has just begun to change color. I didn't expect much of the fruit, but it was sweet as well as acid and had a noticeable grapefruit flavor. There was a bit of bitterness
similar to grapefruit. The fruit was approximately 4 cm (1 1/2") in diameter, quite small. The Brix was 12.

When high grafted onto Poncirus the scions have survived and recovered after a low of 5F (-15C) during the past Winter.

Three years is very quick. Are you planning any mass trials with 5* too?

Hi, just chiming in with my project of trying to grow outdoor yuzus in Helsinki/zone 6b.

- Started on March 2022 after ordering fresh yuzu for some seeds. Germination March-April.
- Moved small plants on my balcony during May for the summer. They seem to grow better indoors with lamps, but I'm low on space indoors.
- On October I decided to split plants into two groups. About a third I'm trying to make survive on my balcony during the winter. I'm planning to use various methods and see how they react to them. Some will be left fully exposured to the weather. Some will be stored on open and closed styrofoam containers. Some will be wrapped in frost-protecting blanket. Two thirds of the plants I brought indoors to grow some better roots & stem, and I will repeat the outdoor procedure next winter. Some of the plants I will plant outdoors next spring and see if they will survive at all in 6b zone.

The plants I'm trying to make survive the winter:

Last winter Helsinki experienced temperatures going as low as -18c. My balcony stays about five degrees higher than this. Freezing temperatures lower than -25c are very rare in vicinity of the ocean, but occasionally do happen.

Welcome to the forum and to the wonderful world of citrus.
Your seedlings look strong and healthy. However, you will have to be patient for them to flower (5-7+ years). If you plant them too small and they freeze back, you might never see flowers.

If you don't know it already, you should learn how to graft and sow some Poncirus rootstocks. It saves you so much time (and money too). As far as I know, there are no or few restrictions within the EU, so you should be able to source budwood from other growers fairly easily.

Poncirus trifoliata is the only citrus that could theoretically handle your zone without protection. Have a look at less awful selections like Poncirus+ or Swamp Lemon.

And finally, citrus coldhardiness depends on a lot of factors. They don't like too much winter sun followed by freezes or prolonged freezes. It doesn't matter that a Yuzu can take -12 C or lower. If your daytime highs stay below 0C for several days or even weeks, it will cark it much sooner.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: My Ichang lemon pics 10/24/22
« on: October 26, 2022, 07:29:05 AM »
Well done. I like the weeping habit of the plant.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« on: September 30, 2022, 05:22:58 AM »
Your potting mix sounds very well-draining. That could be a bit too much during hot weather. I once used a similar mix and had to water constantly and the citrus had red spider mites all the time.

I also have a Hana Yuzu "buccia liscia" from Lenzi. It came with a few fruits that really had smooth skin. Oddly enough, later fruits have had a much more bumpy rind. It is not really smooth anymore. I don't have a normal Hana Yuzu anymore for comparison, though.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: How to keep citrus alive in winter? Zone 8b/7
« on: September 26, 2022, 03:39:46 AM »
I live in zone8b and I never bring my citrus inside. I have several varieties of citrus in the ground. They survive the cold really well.

Zone 8b is between -9.4 and -6.7 C (15 to 22 F). How often do you really see such temperatures and how long will they last? If it is more than an hour or two with temperatures rising well above freezing the next day, I would be surprised.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Sweetest tasting cold hardy citrus
« on: September 16, 2022, 04:39:57 PM »
Prague, being a chimera, is unlikely to offer any genetic contribution towards further improvements in the pursuit of edible cold hardy Citrus. That's not a great concern for the collector or the casual enthusiast.
In the case of a breeder,  however, it's not especially useful. The development of the first edible zone 6 Citrus will hopefully be a zygotic selection opening the path to additional improvements.

You are certainly right, of course. I merely mentioned it because it is very coldhardy and sweet, which is what Mike is looking for if I understand him correctly.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Sweetest tasting cold hardy citrus
« on: September 16, 2022, 01:47:55 PM »
Have a look at the Prague:

It is a chimera of Poncirus and Satsuma. The Poncirus parentage is not noticeable in the fruits. They are sweet with no off flavours whatsoever. Last time I had fruit they were like Satsumas. In my opinion it is the most coldhardy truly edible (i.e. eatable, palatable) citrus. Sources differ from -14 to -18 C or even beyond. Mine has not seen temps lower than -10 C which was no problem.

There are, however, two drawbacks: it is ugly and it can be a shy/random bearer for some people. I have to admit that mine has not fruited since planting it out in 2020.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Sweetest citrus for mild climate
« on: September 14, 2022, 03:23:36 AM »
What about the different varieties of Satsuma?
Also, I have an Oronules clementine that matures early and tastes excellent in my climate (unless it is a year like this one, we don't usually have long periods of very hot weather).

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Hamlin x Flying Dragon
« on: August 30, 2022, 09:52:52 AM »
Oh, excellent! Mine still has not flowered yet and I don't know of anybody else who has had flowers.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The eremo- hybrids, which ones are worth it?
« on: August 22, 2022, 04:01:51 AM »
I have a glauca x Shekwasha and a Citrangeremo. I have had them in pots for a few years. The glauca x Shekwasha has been flowering profusely but until now has never fruited. The Citrangeremo hasn't even flowered yet. So, this spring I decided to plant out the Citrangeremo and see what happens. I hope the change of environment might prompt it to flower. Winter-wise, we would probably be in zone 7b but recent winters have been mostly 8a to 9a, so I don't know when I will be able to put it to a real test. Anyway, if it dies, it dies and the glauca x shekwasha will be next.

Also, I consider those hardiness ratings (-14 C) as mere indications. They are often given by sellers or people who live somewhere those temperatures only last a short time and then rise above 0 C the next day.

Here's a pic:

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