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Messages - Okvid

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+1 to Natal Plum. Taste like a plum in the beginning and ends with sourness. The skin is most sour part.

I'll take the remaining.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: eugenia < garcinia ?
« on: January 14, 2023, 03:52:31 AM »
If I'm stranded on a deserted island, I'm pretty sure whatever keeps me alive is most optimal. It's not like I can choose which trees are on the island. Also you just literally proved my argument through the island. We democratically chose to have a jackfruit tree, and didn't use donations (whatever you would donate on a deserted island).

I'm saying that donations allow for inefficiency in the system because it can lead to outcomes where the vast majority of people don't agree with or can't grow a certain fruit. Compare this to a regular voting system where we can accurately gauge what most people on the site would benefit from. The people don't have the right to use their donation to influence the website because their is no such donation mechanism. Donations here are only to keep the site running ad free. The mechanism we have here is discussion.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: eugenia < garcinia ?
« on: January 12, 2023, 01:01:17 AM »
The Huntington doesn't need to determine the optimal size for the fruit tree section since it was already planned out. Our donations do not affect the planning of sections at Huntington park. They are not a business, but a non-profit so they don't need to determine the most optimal section sizing. I know huntington has a jackfruit tree, I saw it with fruit when the corpse flower was at the huntington in june.

I'm cool with X because you said that donations would be most socially beneficial. Taking your goal, I clearly explained how donations aren't the most socially beneficial path for the forum.

As someone said before, the citrus forum was made in response to the closing of a different forum. I'm guessing the citrus and temperate sections are for people who want to talk to other people from the site (useful as site members usually share geographic regions) on those subjects because there are different forums for those purposes. I don't very much care for a subtropical section since I think it will just dilute discussion.

Let's say that the original intent of the forum by the owner was to talk about tropical fruit specifically in Florida as I think this forum was created with the intent of Floridians to use. Floridians generally can't grow ultra tropicals (there are a few exceptions) . Plus if the owner truly intended for only discussion on durian, mangosteen, and other very tropical fruits, then we wouldn't have TFF as it is now.

You have to stop confounding market price signals with things that have nothing to do with markets. The reason why economies need prices is to give information to firms on whether to enter a market or not, and produce a good or not. This is basic microeconomics. Companies don't use price signals to determine love, they use it to determine profits.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: eugenia < garcinia ?
« on: January 11, 2023, 06:24:11 AM »
That's not what I am saying. Let's say 100 dollars is donated to the Huntington for cycads and the upkeep cost is 100, the Huntington will already have revenue from ticket sales to cover the cycads. Since the 100 dollars donate covers the upkeep, the Huntington can divert the original revenue funds meant for upkeep into different areas or for shortfall in revenue that can't cover all maintenance.

I don't care what the Huntington does, I care about TFF. Mangoes are more accessible to grow than Durian. I never said that durian should be blacked over in TFF, making all durian discussion illegal under forum laws.
Fact 1#: I never said you can't try to grow Durian, go ahead it's your time that you're wasting.
Fact 2#: Most people on the forum live in Florida or California, places that cannot grow Durian.

You go on about how we need to know about what people love and the only way we know love is because of what people donate. That through knowing love we would be better off with this information, and that the other ways like democracy produce inefficient systems through waste of time. I have shown that your premise is flawed because donations don't appeal to the majority who might maximize the benefit for the most people.

There's a reason why jaboticaba45 sold his durian seedlings, he can't grow it. As he stated, it's going to somebody in Puerto Rico, a place that can grow durian. Sure there are plenty of times where people benefit from the mistakes of others. But their are times when painfully obvious mistakes are painfully obvious and all that occurs is wasted time and resources.

Also, when did I ever bring up slavery? You are literally bringing up irrelevant topics for no apparent reasons. Wait, lemme guess the best argument against slavery is that people donated against it?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: eugenia < garcinia ?
« on: January 10, 2023, 11:14:20 PM »
You can designate donations, but does the Huntington take that in account to build more of the section? They could just use the donations to cover what was going to cost for maintenance and spare up some funds for different parts. (Like the Huntington is really going to ignore the maintenance of one section just because it gets less donations)

Who cares whether mangoes or durian gets the most donations? Again, if durian gets more donation, this doesn't really help anybody since most people can't grow durian. If you're really about trying to help the most people, then you would advocate for the fruits that most of the demographic benefits from. It'd more beneficial for somebody to create a sticky that points newbies in the direction of what they can grow in their area, and to tell them to actually eat the tropical fruit before they try to grow it (How can you know your preference if you've actually never tried the fruit?)

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: eugenia < garcinia ?
« on: January 09, 2023, 07:57:24 AM »
All of those bios about the highest donors shows that the donors don't control what their donations do. They donate because they love what the observatory is doing as a whole, not that they rank certain sections as better in order to show their love. The only thing remotely close is the orchid donation, even then the orchid is extremely rare. All you have shown is that donors love what the huntington conservatory does.

Also why must we play a game of cat and mouse to see who is most willing to donate to reveal love. We could just create a thread asking what fruit do you love most and want more discussion?  Behavior that is maximally beneficial to each is other is based on what is in a relatable to the individual.

If durian is most donated for, this helps very few people. It is only maximally beneficial to those who are willing and can grow durian. Overall, this is not very beneficial for the whole. What I can tell you is that what is maximally beneficial is discussing topics that both Floridians and Californians can grow since they are the biggest part of the forum. Through purely democratic means, mangoes have shown up to be the most popular thread. We already have found what people love the most, it's mangoes. There is a wealth of information on it in the forum, and most people on the forum can grow it (Florida, California, Hawaii, bunch of other tropical countries).

Huntington park isn't an oligarchy, it's a independent non-profit organization.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: eugenia < garcinia ?
« on: January 08, 2023, 07:27:37 PM »
Democracy or dictatorship doesn't have to follow from my premise. That alone does not negate anything I've said. We're also not running a country. It's own new thing could be said which sounds a lot better than oligarchy (what donations are). Also the markets opposite is central planning, not democracy or dictatorship.

With donations a rich person who only likes fruit will have more influence than a poor person who loves them, it goes both ways. Y doesn't bias towards fruit lovers, there is no logic to indicate that. It's logically fallacious to say that donations indicate love as I've shown. There's a reason why demand or price =/= value. The botanical garden analogy is flawed. Are botanical gardens mainly for profit or pleasure? Do botanical gardens serve to cater only to the rich or to the general public? Even then, it's not like botanical gardens build sections in response to public demand since they plan out sections well beforehand.

Most people on the forum can't grow Durian since most of the members are in Florida or California. If durian were top ranked on this forum, more people in the tropics wouldn't necessarily grow more. Since the people affected by this higher prioritized information are people on the forum and already live in a durian growing or growable region that weren't growing it in the first place (a very small population). Plus growing durian doesn't mean more durian is shipped to California since those people would have to make it a business instead of a hobby which further narrows it down even more. If you really want rare fruit to be more accessible, then democracy would actually be the best bet. There's a reason why dragonfruit exploded in popularity even though people have been growing in their backyards in California for a long time. The unenlightened masses learned that dragonfruit was a superfood which caused a massive explosion in popularity.

Durian is called the king of fruits in the region that it's grown in. It's a moniker of the region, not something you need to ponder too deeply over.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: eugenia < garcinia ?
« on: January 08, 2023, 06:36:47 AM »
Again, donations still don't indicate true love. Donations indicate who has the most money to waste on. If you really wanted to find true love with donations, then you should see who donates the most relative to their wealth. If a rich man gives lots of money to a topic, this doesn't indicate how much he loves only how much he can waste. If a poor man gives lots of money to a topic, this indicates he is willing to risk more, indicating his true love as he sacrifices more. Donations are tyranny by those with high amounts of disposable income. I would actually call into question the sincerity of those who donate lots of money as they are wasting money on seeds or plants that could be bought. If you really loved a specific plant then you would attempt to grow it no matter what.

Plus donations wouldn't be the best use of interests. A person could donate large amounts of money to categories that most people here can't grow. This prioritization is illogical since most people don't have the ability to grow these ungrowable plants.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: eugenia < garcinia ?
« on: January 06, 2023, 10:31:57 PM »
Value and price are not the same thing. The price of a good doesn't always reflect the value of a good. I could argue that if you really loved durian, you should fly to a durian growing country in order to maximize the amount of durian you can eat rather than wasting money on expensive inferior imported durian.

Price Signals are very useful for commodities as it gives infornation for a supplier to know what and how much to produce.

You've shown a flaw with donations with regards to categories. Does donation amount determine whether a category gets put in or where it appears first? How should we include categories based off donations? Donations don't really don't signal much information in this instance. We use prices in the economy because companies need price signals in order to determine production and whether or not a company should enter a market.

I have searched youtube for eugenia. It shows Eugenia Cooney. The problem is that words have more than one meaning. It's like complaining that Youtube shows me dog barks when I look up bark instead of tree bark or the animal bat instead of baseball bat. Protip: Search up eugenia fruit and you'll get what you want.

Democracy isn't the obstacle to rare fruit, it's climate and logistics. Most places can't grow rare fruit and moving rare fruit to places that don't have it is costly.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: eugenia < garcinia ?
« on: January 06, 2023, 04:23:46 AM »
I see the many categories of agaveville to be kind of off putting. It's information overload and for people new to tropical fruit, it can seem kind of intimidating. The only problem with the forum is the search system.

On the otherhand, I find it ridiculous that donations should determine categories. Donations don't determine sincerity or love, but it does determine who has the most disposable income to waste on anything other than new seeds or plants to buy. Also, this isn't politics and we ain't running a country. People completely outside the sphere of tropical fruits isn't going to be voting on the categories.

Youtube's algorithm is determined partly by watch time which is more than just views. It's to see which videos can hold retention in order to pick videos that aren't egregiously boring. Fields don't cross contaminate so easily. If you're watching videos on eugenias and other tropical fruit, you won't get PewDiePie videos, unless you've watch PewDiePie, since he's in the gaming category (PewDiePie also isn't one of the most popular youtubers relatively speaking). The algorithm caters to what you like to watch, if it were just a democracy then you would only find the most watched videos in the world on your recommendation. Kids don't watch videos on eugenias. They like gaming and other youth oriented activities.

In the end, donations to Youtube is just advertisements? We already have that on YouTube lol. YouTube is a company, and they want people to watch as much YouTube as they can, that's why YouTube uses an algorithm based on your interests.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: eugenia < garcinia ?
« on: January 05, 2023, 04:25:37 AM »
Adding more categories will just dilute attention and cause less interaction with posts since people will have to choose to view which category to view instead of viewing everything. This may seem like a problem except for the fact that there aren't a lot of new posts being created. There's no need to fix something that ain't broke.

YouTube's content prioritization is by algorithm and not democracy. It shows what is popular in your certain field so that you won't get something popular completely unrelated to what you watch. Plus if YouTube was based on donations, then you'd have creators try to game the system in order to get views, YouTube is a career to some people.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Pink pineapple experience
« on: December 28, 2022, 12:06:09 AM »
Maybe you got a lemon. The one I had tasted like pineapple mixed with some strawberry flavor.

According to this, glucose consumption can prevent the neuronal cell demise by annonacin. So maybe you should eat a spoonful of sugar with your annonas.

It could be regions that eat annonas are historically poor making refined sugar inaccessible due to  costs. The only sugar available would be in fruit and starches which take longer to metabolize. It should be also noted that these poorer regions probably ate less food. Therefore, it'd be harder to prevent the annonacins from killing the neuronal cells since there wasn't a high enough glucose level. Considering the American diet, I think we have it covered when it comes to glucose consumption. Although, it'd be a lot healthier if you use glucose syrup since sucrose and fructose aren't very good for you.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Which is better, Rambutan or Longan?
« on: November 14, 2022, 01:25:47 AM »
I think Rambutan is better tasting especially if the rambutans are free stone, however longans are infinitely easier to grow since they aren't as tropical.

Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: ISO: Edible Bananas
« on: November 13, 2022, 02:13:24 PM »
I'm mainly looking for different south east asian bananas.

I've tried a yangmei juice drink at a Taiwanese restuaraunt. It has a herbal taste that is pretty quintessential of chinese medicine. If you're not accustomed to the flavor, you probably won't like yangmei.

Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / ISO: Edible Bananas
« on: November 10, 2022, 11:32:36 PM »
I'm looking to buy edible banana varieties.
 I have dwarf cavendish, mysore, california gold, double mahoi, dwarf brazilian, manzano, dwarf namwah, dwarf red, blue java, goldfinger, and gros michel.

It seems strange that the seller won't accept seed permits especially since yangmei isn't on the restricted plants list.



Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Seedless Lychee Order + Shixia Longan
« on: September 20, 2022, 11:18:48 PM »
I'll contact them tomorrow and see if they'll let me use them as a reference. Thanks!

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Seedless Lychee Order
« on: September 20, 2022, 03:34:08 AM »
I've made a mistake on the pricing, see first post. I'll update the new quoted price unless enough people also want shixia longans. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Seedless Lychee Order
« on: September 19, 2022, 10:03:36 PM »
Okvid, count me in for 1 tree.
I don't think I can deliver all the way to Oakland unless you want to drive down here.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Seedless Lychee Order + Shixia Longan
« on: September 19, 2022, 06:04:44 AM »
I'm planning on halting the order as I've realized that the import permits would be a 588 and not a 587. Lychees and Longans are on the Not Authorized Pending Pest Risk Analysis. This means that they can be imported if there is pest risk analysis done. While they aren't prohibited from import, you do need a 588, something that I don't think I can currently get since I don't know any plant health specialists (somebody who has a relevant degree or prior experience diagnosing plant problems). I'll still be in contact with the sales rep to see if I can do anything about this.

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