Author Topic: eugenia < garcinia ?  (Read 4624 times)

K-Rimes

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Re: eugenia < garcinia ?
« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2023, 11:45:50 AM »
tru, what's with you? Epiphyte has done a bang up job convincing everyone here we need to switch to a donation system. Heck, ever since Epiphyte wrote: "a donation system, on the other hand, would be like public tug of war.  the harder you pulled for canarium, the more curious i'd be about it," I've been at the ready to donate. I just don't know who to send my hard-earned money to to show my love? If his embedded links (ones that make our occasional spammers weep with envy) and name dropping haven't convinced you, I'm afraid nothing will.

Epiphyte, ignore the haters. Keep up the good fight. One day all will see and understand. (I'll admit, I thought this thread was going to die a couple days ago. You saved the day by presenting a theoretical charge that Okvid was trying to be your slave master. Brilliant move that allowed you to pontificate further!) Continue trying to enlighten the nonbelievers! KEEP THIS THREAD ALIVE!!!

I keep telling myself to stop commenting but I keep coming back for more. There've been times in my life where I absolutely couldn't afford a whimsical donation to elevate durian information on a message board so perhaps that's why the idea of it really grinds my gears. Not to mention that while durian is a fabulous and unusual fruit some days, I am good on it after a few bites - and I can't grow it! (I would if I could, though).

Epiphyte

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Re: eugenia < garcinia ?
« Reply #51 on: January 12, 2023, 01:28:39 PM »
Okvid, let's say that you're stranded on a small, deserted, tropical island with only coconut trees.  would the supply of trees be optimal?  the answer depends on your preferences.  let's pretend that mango is your favorite fruit.  if a mango tree was somehow magically added to the island, then the supply of trees would be closer to optimal.  you would derive more benefit from the supply of trees. 

one day i somehow end up on the island with you.  in this case, the optimality of the tree supply depends on our preferences.  i love durian, you can't stand it.  however we both love jackfruit.  therefore the addition of a jackfruit tree would provide greater total benefit than the addition of a durian tree.

in all cases the optimal supply of fruit trees, and everything else, is a function of everyone's preferences, which are most accurately revealed through personal sacrifice.  if donors to the huntington are willing to make a big sacrifice for tropical fruit trees, but the huntington only plants a few tropical fruit trees, then the supply would be very suboptimal.  it wouldn't provide nearly as much benefit as it could and should.

your argument against using donations to reveal our preferences is that the durian category would receive too much money.  but that's like me arguing that huntington donors would allocate too much money to renaissance paintings. 

do i like renaissance paintings?  well, not nearly as much as i like tropical fruit trees.  but this doesn't mean that i would ever oppose people's freedom to use their donations to express their preferences.

right now people have the freedom to use their donations to express their preference for this website.  we all benefit from this freedom.  but there isn't a single donor who appreciates all fruit discussion equally.  so we would benefit even more if donors were free to use their donations to express their preferences more specifically.

fliptop

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Re: eugenia < garcinia ?
« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2023, 02:19:12 PM »
Yeah, Okvid, what about that island scenario, huh?!

(You've got him on the ropes now, Epiphyte! I thought you were gonna wait a little bit longer before pulling out the ol' "deserted, tropical island with only coconut trees" angle, but you know what you're doing here! I bet everyone on this forum is ready to fall into line now!)

pagnr

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Re: eugenia < garcinia ?
« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2023, 02:36:41 PM »
I spent a week on a remote tropical beach in Nth QLD, South of Cooktown.
Only coconuts, some old fruit trees from an old garden. Only limes bearing. Some wild bush fruit. Food carried in also.
Coconuts were heavily eaten.
Only one person could climb trees for green coconuts, anybody else could forage for fallen green or brown ones and sprouted angel fruit coconuts.
Everyone was dependent on the climber for drinking coconuts.
He never made a thing of it, but he did climb for the group.
You can't beat Fresh coconut juice, especially on a tropical beach.
After a week the other people started driving me a bit crazy, and I glimpsed for a moment what it would be like to be shipwrecked on a desert island with a few other crew.

Epiphyte

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Re: eugenia < garcinia ?
« Reply #54 on: January 12, 2023, 02:37:39 PM »
tru, what's with you? Epiphyte has done a bang up job convincing everyone here we need to switch to a donation system. Heck, ever since Epiphyte wrote: "a donation system, on the other hand, would be like public tug of war.  the harder you pulled for canarium, the more curious i'd be about it," I've been at the ready to donate. I just don't know who to send my hard-earned money to to show my love? If his embedded links (ones that make our occasional spammers weep with envy) and name dropping haven't convinced you, I'm afraid nothing will.

Epiphyte, ignore the haters. Keep up the good fight. One day all will see and understand. (I'll admit, I thought this thread was going to die a couple days ago. You saved the day by presenting a theoretical charge that Okvid was trying to be your slave master. Brilliant move that allowed you to pontificate further!) Continue trying to enlighten the nonbelievers! KEEP THIS THREAD ALIVE!!!
i'm doing a laughably terrible job.  it's really hard.

you go to the store and there are only 3 options...

1. fruits and veggies
2. meat
3. everything else

you don't get to pick and choose the fruits and veggies, because it's possible that people would spend too much money on... oranges. but at least the vegetarians wouldn't have to spend their money on meat.

using your money to express your specific preferences isn't obviously beneficial? 

nobody buys all the fruits and veggies.  nobody reads all the threads.   we all have specific preferences.  so what's so difficult about the concept of using our money to communicate our specific preferences?

is it because fruits and fruit threads are different kinds of products? 

when it comes to buying, people need to use their money to express their specific preferences.  the same is not true of donating?  the huntington doesn't really need to give donors the option to express their specific preferences?  because? 

i have so many questions, so yes, by all means, keep this thread alive!

fliptop

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Re: eugenia < garcinia ?
« Reply #55 on: January 12, 2023, 02:55:33 PM »
pagnr, have you ever read Lord of the Flies? How did you open the coconuts? How would one open coconuts without manmade tools? Thanks!

Epiphyte

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Re: eugenia < garcinia ?
« Reply #56 on: January 12, 2023, 03:11:41 PM »
I keep telling myself to stop commenting but I keep coming back for more. There've been times in my life where I absolutely couldn't afford a whimsical donation to elevate durian information on a message board so perhaps that's why the idea of it really grinds my gears. Not to mention that while durian is a fabulous and unusual fruit some days, I am good on it after a few bites - and I can't grow it! (I would if I could, though).
i love variegated plants, but i couldn't afford to shell out $700 for a variegated jaboticaba on ebay.  but it doesn't grind my gears because i understand that such a high price will motivate more propagation, which will increase the supply, which will reduce the price

same thing if wealthy donors elevated the variegation category to the top of this website's homepage. 

one fruit that i'm not a fan of is nance... byrsonima crassifolia. ever tried it?  if wealthy donors elevate it to the top of the homepage, then in this case i wouldn't directly or indirectly benefit. 

i just think it's highly unlikely that the top 10 categories will include many topics that i dislike.  if i'm lucky enough to visit the tropical fruit garden of some wealthy collector, i doubt it's going to be packed with the worst tasting fruits in the world.

i'm sure you've visited several private collections.  do wealthier collectors have terrible taste in rare fruit?

pagnr

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Re: eugenia < garcinia ?
« Reply #57 on: January 12, 2023, 04:22:54 PM »
pagnr, have you ever read Lord of the Flies? How did you open the coconuts? How would one open coconuts without manmade tools? Thanks!

A tomahawk, a small machete, carried in. Green coconuts are pretty tough, and if you want the drinking juice you have to be accurate with the whacker.
If you can get the outer husk off you can bust brown coconuts on a rock but you will lose the liquid.
A coconut scraper is also good as it makes the hard nut taste sweeter.
There is another special tool for scraping out soft green jelly flesh into strips.
Lord of the Flies was banned on all our trips, in case anybody got ideas.

Jordan321

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Re: eugenia < garcinia ?
« Reply #58 on: January 13, 2023, 09:29:41 AM »
No way Tru, I'm all in with fliptop! Though I've completely lost whatever the heck is being talked about, I'm pretty sure I am in favor of it if I receive enough donations.  PM me for my venmo if you'd like to support supporting Epi.  ;)

On the serious side of forum improvements that can't be implemented, I wish we had a map feature that laid out where everyone is posting from.  Obviously not your home address, just the city or whatever like some have in their profile already.  It'd be cool for knowing whose experiences are directly related to mine, and whose need may or may not be, but more than that, it'd give an easy way for connecting with locals for sales/trades.  Maybe easier sales of in season fruit. 

Epiphyte

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Re: eugenia < garcinia ?
« Reply #59 on: January 14, 2023, 02:54:08 AM »
I spent a week on a remote tropical beach in Nth QLD, South of Cooktown.
i'm envious.  was it a meetup group or something?

what are your fav bush tuckers?  do you have a fav bush tucker person on youtube?  i like watching scotty gone walkabouts but he doesn't seem that crazy about bush tucker.  "bush tucker", heh.

a couple years ago i visited an excellent generalist plant collector in santa barbara.  i was kinda surprised to see a very common ice plant in his yard.  i was even more surprised when he said that the fruit is edible.  there wasn't much flesh and it tasted kinda like salty figs.  the species was carpobrotus deliciosus, which in theory should taste a lot better than carpobrotus edulis.

around a month later i was on the sidewalk in front of a random house waiting for a friend.  the front yard sloped down to the sidewalk and was covered by the iceplant.  i couldn't resist the temptation to eat, quite self-consciously, some of the fruits.

another common landscape plant that i was completely clueless for the longest time that it had edible fruit is the natal plum.  not sure why but it seems like it's hard to catch the fruit when they are perfectly ripe.  i sure hope that somebody is developing varieties with larger and sweeter fruits.

a while back i bought carissa edulis var tomentosa from kartuz greenhouses.  i bought it primarily for its fragrant flowers and somehow didn't realize that it was in the same genus as natal plum.  i'm doing a terrible job growing it and so far it has only produced one fruit.  i don't remember if i ate it.

all the fruit ignorance in the world would be eliminated if we used donations to prioritize fruit categories. 

Okvid

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Re: eugenia < garcinia ?
« Reply #60 on: January 14, 2023, 03:52:31 AM »
If I'm stranded on a deserted island, I'm pretty sure whatever keeps me alive is most optimal. It's not like I can choose which trees are on the island. Also you just literally proved my argument through the island. We democratically chose to have a jackfruit tree, and didn't use donations (whatever you would donate on a deserted island).

I'm saying that donations allow for inefficiency in the system because it can lead to outcomes where the vast majority of people don't agree with or can't grow a certain fruit. Compare this to a regular voting system where we can accurately gauge what most people on the site would benefit from. The people don't have the right to use their donation to influence the website because their is no such donation mechanism. Donations here are only to keep the site running ad free. The mechanism we have here is discussion.

Epiphyte

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Re: eugenia < garcinia ?
« Reply #61 on: January 15, 2023, 06:17:09 PM »
On the serious side of forum improvements that can't be implemented, I wish we had a map feature that laid out where everyone is posting from.  Obviously not your home address, just the city or whatever like some have in their profile already.  It'd be cool for knowing whose experiences are directly related to mine, and whose need may or may not be, but more than that, it'd give an easy way for connecting with locals for sales/trades.  Maybe easier sales of in season fruit.
yeah that would be useful.  a decade ago, on an orchid forum, i suggested that categories be created for any interested orchid societies... and voila.  not much participation though because it was right around the time that facebook groups were starting to get popular.  but the society categories are still useful because their threads can easily be found by browsing.

here on this tropical fruit forum, ain't nobody browsing going to find my thread about starting a rare fruit and nut public park here in socal.

you'd figure that rare fruit chapters would really appreciate an effective way to promote their clubs.  if only there was a way....

cassowary

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Re: eugenia < garcinia ?
« Reply #62 on: January 16, 2023, 12:58:39 AM »
Green nuts you smash onto the mother palm itself and brown nuts you open with a branch that is embedded in a tree or in the ground, like a stump.  And you use the husk itself as a spoon. Add a bit of saltwater and your in paradise.

Time is something we all have the same amount of, writing posts take time. We automatically prioritize our time so the forum is already optimized with one of gods currencies. Spammers get blocked for a reason...

If you want donation based priorities the forum should maybe be built on steem it.
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cassowary

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Re: eugenia < garcinia ?
« Reply #63 on: January 16, 2023, 01:38:15 AM »
Democracy is "enslavement" since conformity to an agenda is valued over the free spirit of the individual.
It is not as brutal as oligarcal enslavement but I am using it to illustrate the issue with the island metaphor.

"I love durian, you can't stand it."

You didn't plant durian because you where obedient to anothers wish and thus never got to manifest your entire free spirit. Obedience to natural law is reasonable. Natural law is inside the free spirit.
It's irrational to yield to the unreasonable. It's irrational to ignore your free spirit. But for the unreasonable unreason is reasonable.

Peace!





« Last Edit: February 03, 2023, 04:23:28 PM by cassowary »
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Epiphyte

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Re: eugenia < garcinia ?
« Reply #64 on: January 16, 2023, 12:53:27 PM »
okvid, how many yangmeis did you buy?  i bought 16, but some are for friends.

what is your strategy for your yangmeis?  when i visited hapa joe he showed me his yangmeis and they looked great.  he suggested initially soaking them in rooting hormone, taping them with parafilm and potting them in a well-drained inorganic medium with a decent amount of sand.  via email i learned that shmojojojo plans to add gypsum to his medium and fertilize with B-1 liquid fertilizer. 

i had planned on immediately planting some of mine in the ground but this week might be too cold.  it is supposed to get down to 38F in my area (glendale, next to atwater).

you're concerned that members of this forum would spend too much money promoting durians, which most of us can't grow.  but this is the same thing as being concerned that forum members would spend too little money promoting yangmeis, which most of us can grow, albeit not very easily.

what's the total amount of money that forum members have spent on buying yangmeis? 

you seem to trust our judgement when it comes to buying yangmeis, but you don't trust our judgement when it comes to promoting them.

 

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