Author Topic: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...  (Read 59065 times)

puglvr1

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Re: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...
« Reply #50 on: March 31, 2015, 08:03:01 AM »

I received a Maha from Joe (thanks again!) from Ed Ensey's Grove in Merritt Island...first Maha I've ever tasted and it was really good!the taste was very similar to the fruits from my own tree.  The scent from that mango was so wonderful...and the shape was unusual, very different from the other mangoes I grow.

GrassFlats

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Re: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...
« Reply #51 on: March 31, 2015, 11:22:45 AM »
Ensey's has mangos available now?

sapote

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Re: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...
« Reply #52 on: March 31, 2015, 03:24:16 PM »
Pug,

Your Maha looks great. Do the brands that carried last year fruit have new flower or new growth? My Maha had 2 fruits last year and those brands have not had any new buds at all Ė just the old leaves. The main trunk below those brands did send out new shoots with tons of flowers but I donít want fruits this year. Dear God, give me new mango growth, not fruits  ;D

Sapote
Do you have excalibur version of Maha, or Zill version? This will make a significant difference as to what you can expect. Excalibur's version is VERY slow growing but sets loads of awesome fruit. Zills version is pretty vigorous. I have not had the fruit from the zill version yet.  The taste of the ones off my excalibur version are super sweet with dark orange flesh with no resinous flavor and very little fiber.
I have gotten 1 growth flush in over 2 years, it just keeps flowering and setting loads of fruit. I suppose I could pick up the watering schedule a bit :)

I didn't know there are more than one type. I got mine from Toptropic and my fruits looked the same as on Pug's photo of her fruit and the profound S shape.

Sapote

bsbullie

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Re: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...
« Reply #53 on: March 31, 2015, 04:04:44 PM »
There is only ONE Mahachanok.  No matter who propagates or sells it, it is Mahachanok.  The variables are the rootstock, soil/potting mix used, fertilizer used, growing location, watering amount/frequency/duration, climatic care and any other care related manners.  With that being said, there is only ONE type/version/"variety" of Mahachanok.

Oh, the Mahachanok that TT sells most likely came from Excalibur. 
- Rob

JF

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Re: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...
« Reply #54 on: March 31, 2015, 05:26:42 PM »
There is only ONE Mahachanok.  No matter who propagates or sells it, it is Mahachanok.  The variables are the rootstock, soil/potting mix used, fertilizer used, growing location, watering amount/frequency/duration, climatic care and any other care related manners.  With that being said, there is only ONE type/version/"variety" of Mahachanok.

Oh, the Mahachanok that TT sells most likely came from Excalibur.

So it's polyembryonic?  Leo Manuel has had a mahachanok that's 20 years old in San Diegoand it's much smaller than the Excalibur and three other florida seedling I have

Cookie Monster

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Re: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...
« Reply #55 on: March 31, 2015, 06:58:43 PM »
The thai often have several of the same type. For example, there are multiple nam doc mai and pim sane mun cultivars. One would think that there could be more than one MC cultivar too.
Jeff  :-)

Cookie Monster

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Re: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...
« Reply #56 on: March 31, 2015, 07:04:23 PM »
The original article is not online anymore, but here is the excerpt that I had harvested way back when. Apparently the thai have multiple clones of their popular cultivars.

"Among the well-known off-season mangoes are 'Sam Ruedu' (a cultivar that bears off-season fruits) and 'Nam Dok Mai' Thawai #4, 'Phimsen Man' Thawai, 'Ok Rong' Thawai, 'Man Duean Kao Thawai' and 'Chok Anan Thawai', all of which are clones of normal-bearing mangoes"
Jeff  :-)

mangomaniac2

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Re: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...
« Reply #57 on: March 31, 2015, 07:24:36 PM »
There is a difference between zills and excalibur because I own both of them and can see the difference. Sorry Rob, you are not always right. Most times you are right, but sometimes you may not know for sure but write as if you do.

bsbullie

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Re: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...
« Reply #58 on: March 31, 2015, 08:03:14 PM »
There is a difference between zills and excalibur because I own both of them and can see the difference. Sorry Rob, you are not always right. Most times you are right, but sometimes you may not know for sure but write as if you do.

Why dont you ask both Gary Zill and Richard Wilson where Gary got his original Mahachanok from (that would also imply you know both of them which i am pretty sure i know the answer).  That would also assume and imply they would even give you the time of day with your questions.   You dont have to believe me as i can see you clearly know more but in case you are interested, it came from Richard.  You dont always know what you are talking about.   

I have two Mahachanok that are the same age, both from Excalibur,  and they have two distinct different growth habits.  As i said above, rootstock can make a huge difference.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 08:08:26 PM by bsbullie »
- Rob

bsbullie

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Re: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...
« Reply #59 on: March 31, 2015, 08:05:35 PM »
The original article is not online anymore, but here is the excerpt that I had harvested way back when. Apparently the thai have multiple clones of their popular cultivars.

"Among the well-known off-season mangoes are 'Sam Ruedu' (a cultivar that bears off-season fruits) and 'Nam Dok Mai' Thawai #4, 'Phimsen Man' Thawai, 'Ok Rong' Thawai, 'Man Duean Kao Thawai' and 'Chok Anan Thawai', all of which are clones of normal-bearing mangoes"

I understand and agree with what you said however i have never seen any publication stating or even hinting there are different sub-cultivars of Mahachanok.
- Rob

jc

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Re: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...
« Reply #60 on: March 31, 2015, 08:10:26 PM »
Interesting since both companies are in Lake Worth, Florida. Do you have photos of the two trees and their fruit?

If memory serves, i thought ZHPP didnt even start propagating MC until 2013ish. Not certain about the date, but i remember it being within the past couple of years. I bought my MC from Excalibur in 2012 and to my knowledge ZHPP had yet to start propagating MC.

I thought, Richard Wilson, the owner of Excalibur, and King Harry were the first importers of MC. (Harry in the 1990's and RW in 2000's) Dr Richard Campbell from Fairchild claims to have material from 3 different MC's.

Furthermore everything I've read and my observation of MC seeds/seedlings is that it is monoembryonic.



There is a difference between zills and excalibur because I own both of them and can see the difference. Sorry Rob, you are not always right. Most times you are right, but sometimes you may not know for sure but write as if you do.
JC

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Re: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...
« Reply #61 on: March 31, 2015, 08:17:52 PM »
There are multiple clones
Check out my last mango tasting
Last year. Leo Manual had a mahachanok before Excalibur

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=12517.25

mangomaniac2

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Re: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...
« Reply #62 on: March 31, 2015, 08:25:06 PM »
The original article is not online anymore, but here is the excerpt that I had harvested way back when. Apparently the thai have multiple clones of their popular cultivars.

"Among the well-known off-season mangoes are 'Sam Ruedu' (a cultivar that bears off-season fruits) and 'Nam Dok Mai' Thawai #4, 'Phimsen Man' Thawai, 'Ok Rong' Thawai, 'Man Duean Kao Thawai' and 'Chok Anan Thawai', all of which are clones of normal-bearing mangoes"

I understand and agree with what you said however i have never seen any publication stating or even hinting there are different sub-cultivars of Mahachanok.
So what is maha-65? That is likely a maha variant.

mangomaniac2

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Re: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...
« Reply #63 on: March 31, 2015, 08:48:43 PM »
There is a difference between zills and excalibur because I own both of them and can see the difference. Sorry Rob, you are not always right. Most times you are right, but sometimes you may not know for sure but write as if you do.

Why dont you ask both Gary Zill and Richard Wilson where Gary got his original Mahachanok from (that would also imply you know both of them which i am pretty sure i know the answer).  That would also assume and imply they would even give you the time of day with your questions.   You dont have to believe me as i can see you clearly know more but in case you are interested, it came from Richard.  You dont always know what you are talking about.   

I have two Mahachanok that are the same age, both from Excalibur,  and they have two distinct different growth habits.  As i said above, rootstock can make a huge difference.
There is a difference between zills and excalibur because I own both of them and can see the difference. Sorry Rob, you are not always right. Most times you are right, but sometimes you may not know for sure but write as if you do.

Why dont you ask both Gary Zill and Richard Wilson where Gary got his original Mahachanok from (that would also imply you know both of them which i am pretty sure i know the answer).  That would also assume and imply they would even give you the time of day with your questions.   You dont have to believe me as i can see you clearly know more but in case you are interested, it came from Richard.  You dont always know what you are talking about.   

I have two Mahachanok that are the same age, both from Excalibur,  and they have two distinct different growth habits.  As i said above, rootstock can make a huge difference.
I think may be rootstock that is the difference I was eluding to but cannot say for sure as I have not had the fruit from zill's yet. Based on other's posts here though, it's obvious there are multiple maha around, just as I suspected.

jc

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Re: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...
« Reply #64 on: March 31, 2015, 08:57:48 PM »
I thought the topic was focusing on the MCs from Florida.

I think its quite feasible for someone in CA to have MC before Florida. As to your " clones," are they from multiple seedlings from a single MC seed?  Plus one of those fruit labled as MC does not look like the fruit i have or seen posted as MC. Looks pointed...

There are multiple clones
Check out my last mango tasting
Last year. Leo Manual had a mahachanok before Excalibur

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=12517.25
JC

jc

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Re: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...
« Reply #65 on: March 31, 2015, 09:00:53 PM »
X
The original article is not online anymore, but here is the excerpt that I had harvested way back when. Apparently the thai have multiple clones of their popular cultivars.

"Among the well-known off-season mangoes are 'Sam Ruedu' (a cultivar that bears off-season fruits) and 'Nam Dok Mai' Thawai #4, 'Phimsen Man' Thawai, 'Ok Rong' Thawai, 'Man Duean Kao Thawai' and 'Chok Anan Thawai', all of which are clones of normal-bearing mangoes"

I understand and agree with what you said however i have never seen any publication stating or even hinting there are different sub-cultivars of Mahachanok.
So what is maha-65? That is likely a maha variant.
JC

JF

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Re: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...
« Reply #66 on: March 31, 2015, 09:31:13 PM »
I thought the topic was focusing on the MCs from Florida.

I think its quite feasible for someone in CA to have MC before Florida. As to your " clones," are they from multiple seedlings from a single MC seed?  Plus one of those fruit labled as MC does not look like the fruit i have or seen posted as MC. Looks pointed...

There are multiple clones
Check out my last mango tasting
Last year. Leo Manual had a mahachanok before Excalibur

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=12517.25

the topic is *Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...*
but we are talking about Mahachanok in general and when I first saw Leo's tree and the fruits a few years ago I immediately notice a striking differences between Excalibur and even Harry's fruits.. So I ask Leo about his source and the age of the tree......btw, I've posted pix in different threads in this forum of the MC tree and fruits.. The other three seedlings I have are from Florida so I couldn't tell you if they were multiple seedlings from a single MC seed. 

bsbullie

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Re: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...
« Reply #67 on: March 31, 2015, 09:32:52 PM »
There are multiple clones
Check out my last mango tasting
Last year. Leo Manual had a mahachanok before Excalibur

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=12517.25

What do you mean by multiple clones?

Who cares who gad it first.  I believe Harry has had it for 17+years, does it matter?
- Rob

murahilin

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Re: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...
« Reply #68 on: March 31, 2015, 09:33:44 PM »
There is a difference between zills and excalibur because I own both of them and can see the difference. Sorry Rob, you are not always right. Most times you are right, but sometimes you may not know for sure but write as if you do.

The Mahachanok that Zill's propagates is from Excalibur if I remember correctly. The difference you are referring to is likely due to rootstock differences.

With that being said, there are possibly multiple Mahachanok clones due to different introduction times and sources from Thailand but the Zills, Excalibur, and TopTropicals are all the same.

bsbullie

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Re: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...
« Reply #69 on: March 31, 2015, 09:34:37 PM »
What is Maha 65?
- Rob

jc

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Re: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...
« Reply #70 on: March 31, 2015, 09:56:02 PM »
And did Leo mention how he obtained his MC? 

Please define clone for us.

I only understand clone to mean genetically identical. In the case of mango seeds i, and many of us, are under the impression that clones only come from polyembryonic seeds.  There will be multiple embryos then multiple seedlings from one seed. One seedling is sexually derived and genetically different from the parent. The rest of the seedlings are genetically identical to the parent. Please tell us if there were multiple seedlings and how we know the clone seedlings were selected vs the genetically identical seedling.

Maybe I'm confused but, Harry has a 3 MC seeds all planted in one hole. All three seedlings are different from each other as well as there parent.

I thought the topic was focusing on the MCs from Florida.

I think its quite feasible for someone in CA to have MC before Florida. As to your " clones," are they from multiple seedlings from a single MC seed?  Plus one of those fruit labled as MC does not look like the fruit i have or seen posted as MC. Looks pointed...

There are multiple clones
Check out my last mango tasting
Last year. Leo Manual had a mahachanok before Excalibur

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=12517.25

the topic is *Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...*
but we are talking about Mahachanok in general and when I first saw Leo's tree and the fruits a few years ago I immediately notice a striking differences between Excalibur and even Harry's fruits.. So I ask Leo about his source and the age of the tree......btw, I've posted pix in different threads in this forum of the MC tree and fruits.. The other three seedlings I have are from Florida so I couldn't tell you if they were multiple seedlings from a single MC seed.
JC

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Re: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...
« Reply #71 on: March 31, 2015, 10:42:17 PM »
And did Leo mention how he obtained his MC? 

Please define clone for us.

I only understand clone to mean genetically identical. In the case of mango seeds i, and many of us, are under the impression that clones only come from polyembryonic seeds.  There will be multiple embryos then multiple seedlings from one seed. One seedling is sexually derived and genetically different from the parent. The rest of the seedlings are genetically identical to the parent. Please tell us if there were multiple seedlings and how we know the clone seedlings were selected vs the genetically identical seedling.

Maybe I'm confused but, Harry has a 3 MC seeds all planted in one hole. All three seedlings are different from each other as well as there parent.

I thought the topic was focusing on the MCs from Florida.

I think its quite feasible for someone in CA to have MC before Florida. As to your " clones," are they from multiple seedlings from a single MC seed?  Plus one of those fruit labled as MC does not look like the fruit i have or seen posted as MC. Looks pointed...

There are multiple clones
Check out my last mango tasting
Last year. Leo Manual had a mahachanok before Excalibur

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=12517.25

the topic is *Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...*
but we are talking about Mahachanok in general and when I first saw Leo's tree and the fruits a few years ago I immediately notice a striking differences between Excalibur and even Harry's fruits.. So I ask Leo about his source and the age of the tree......btw, I've posted pix in different threads in this forum of the MC tree and fruits.. The other three seedlings I have are from Florida so I couldn't tell you if they were multiple seedlings from a single MC seed.

Yes, Leo did mention the source and it wasn't Excalibur

you are right a clone would be from a polyembryonic seed, probably different cultivar of MC....the fruits are shaped different. I have fruited 2 seedlings and this year I hope to have fruits from the Excalibur tree which I've had in MangoDog's tasting in Palm Springs
 
 

jc

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Re: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...
« Reply #72 on: April 01, 2015, 07:19:58 AM »
Ok, I didn't realize that there were multiple cultivars of MC. Is this like the Kensington Pride thing?  Every KP seedling is still called KP even though they supposedly vary slightly. 

I assumed, based on my reading and observation of MC seeds, that all MC seeds were mono, thus there could only be one MC grown from seed, the original.

So...how did Leo get his MC?  And was it grafted or a seedling?
JC

puglvr1

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Re: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...
« Reply #73 on: April 01, 2015, 07:42:57 AM »
"What variety mango is that beautiful bushy tree in the background?"

Fisher, its my Glenn...the one that Powdery Mildew devasted and what the few left the "freeze" nailed  >:( :'(...here's a better picture.


"Ensey's has mangos available now?"

Grassflats, sorry I got that Maha mango last year (Sept.)

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Re: Decided to Plant my Maha Chanok...
« Reply #74 on: April 01, 2015, 08:38:24 AM »
I assumed, based on my reading and observation of MC seeds, that all MC seeds were mono, thus there could only be one MC grown from seed, the original.

That's correct. There are not 'multiple varieties' of Maha Chanok anymore than there are 'multiple varieties' of Haden or Kent.

 

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