Author Topic: Anyone have any experience buying Mango trees on EBAY?  (Read 23844 times)

WaterFowler

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Re: Anyone have any experience buying Mango trees on EBAY?
« Reply #50 on: March 24, 2015, 08:18:45 PM »
The pictures that are posted of the trees I have for sale on Ebay are the actual pictures of the plants I have in my nursery

That is a boldface lie and i can prove that quite easily. This nursery is digging themselves into a hole. They cover one lie with another.....their credibility is Shot. I am the creator of this image and I did not authorize them to use it for their profit.




I think he/she meant, the trees that are for sale in the nursery photos are their own and represent what you are purchasing. At least that's what I got from the context of the post. He/she has already admitted that the large adult fruiting trees in the first photo of her listing, may not all be hers.

I'm sure they'll do the right thing and remove the photo in question promptly. It would be a bad business decision otherwise, as this has already been "bad press".

bangkok

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Re: Anyone have any experience buying Mango trees on EBAY?
« Reply #51 on: March 24, 2015, 08:30:26 PM »
Are you guys happy now to ruin the thread about a new ebayseller?

This forum has become a snakepit. There's nothing fruity about it. It's all about the money, honey. >:(


starling1

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Re: Anyone have any experience buying Mango trees on EBAY?
« Reply #52 on: March 24, 2015, 08:37:20 PM »
The pictures that are posted of the trees I have for sale on Ebay are the actual pictures of the plants I have in my nursery

That is a boldface lie and i can prove that quite easily. This nursery is digging themselves into a hole. They cover one lie with another.....their credibility is Shot. I am the creator of this image and I did not authorize them to use it for their profit.




And I'm afraid that I'm going to have to concur with Bangkok; Maha Chanok is an Heirloom variety that is from Thailand. It is sold in Australia as king Thai (http://www.daleysfruit.com.au/Dwarf-Mango-King-Thai.htm) and does certainly not meet your definition as  a 'Beautiful New Variety out of Florida'.

My guess is that you're using duplicitous language in order to garner interest from a market sector with an interest in 'buying American'. Well, you're technically defrauding that market and plagiarizing a variety by proxy. So you're not exactly at the pinnacle of ethical congeniality yourself.

Stones in Glass houses, my friend.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 08:52:39 PM by starling1 »

starling1

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Re: Anyone have any experience buying Mango trees on EBAY?
« Reply #53 on: March 24, 2015, 08:39:51 PM »
Are you guys happy now to ruin the thread about a new ebayseller?

This forum has become a snakepit. There's nothing fruity about it. It's all about the money, honey. >:(

TFF is a fantastic site, don't let the entrepreneurialism of some members detract from that.  In case you haven't noticed, there are zero analytics running on this page. I highly commend the developers for that.

bangkok

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Re: Anyone have any experience buying Mango trees on EBAY?
« Reply #54 on: March 24, 2015, 09:05:16 PM »
The pictures that are posted of the trees I have for sale on Ebay are the actual pictures of the plants I have in my nursery

That is a boldface lie and i can prove that quite easily. This nursery is digging themselves into a hole. They cover one lie with another.....their credibility is Shot. I am the creator of this image and I did not authorize them to use it for their profit.




And I'm afraid that I'm going to have to concur with Bangkok; Maha Chanok is an Heirloom variety that is from Thailand. It is sold in Australia as king Thai (http://www.daleysfruit.com.au/Dwarf-Mango-King-Thai.htm) and does certainly not meet your definition as  a 'Beautiful New Variety out of Florida'.

My guess is that you're using duplicitous language in order to garner interest from a market sector with an interest in 'buying American'. Well, you're technically defrauding that market and plagiarizing a variety by proxy. So you're not exactly at the pinnacle of ethical congeniality yourself.

Stones in Glass houses, my friend.

Starling i don't understand why Daleys won't use the original name "mahachanok". On top of that the name that they currently use (i don't even dare to repeat it) is not done in Thailand.... :-X :-X



starling1

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Re: Anyone have any experience buying Mango trees on EBAY?
« Reply #55 on: March 24, 2015, 09:13:20 PM »
The pictures that are posted of the trees I have for sale on Ebay are the actual pictures of the plants I have in my nursery

That is a boldface lie and i can prove that quite easily. This nursery is digging themselves into a hole. They cover one lie with another.....their credibility is Shot. I am the creator of this image and I did not authorize them to use it for their profit.

The listing does actually read mahachanok, it's just in smaller writing and below 'King Thai'.

The market needs names that are easy to get the tongue around.




And I'm afraid that I'm going to have to concur with Bangkok; Maha Chanok is an Heirloom variety that is from Thailand. It is sold in Australia as king Thai (http://www.daleysfruit.com.au/Dwarf-Mango-King-Thai.htm) and does certainly not meet your definition as  a 'Beautiful New Variety out of Florida'.

My guess is that you're using duplicitous language in order to garner interest from a market sector with an interest in 'buying American'. Well, you're technically defrauding that market and plagiarizing a variety by proxy. So you're not exactly at the pinnacle of ethical congeniality yourself.

Stones in Glass houses, my friend.

Starling i don't understand why Daleys won't use the original name "mahachanok". On top of that the name that they currently use (i don't even dare to repeat it) is not done in Thailand.... :-X :-X

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Re: Anyone have any experience buying Mango trees on EBAY?
« Reply #56 on: March 24, 2015, 09:33:07 PM »
By the way. Ebay has rules about the pictures used on your posts...they MUST be your pictures.   You can face penalties if caught using other's pictures.
- Rob

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Re: Posting Pictures/Ebay
« Reply #57 on: March 24, 2015, 09:49:51 PM »

If the Images have not been copyrighted, or the creator of them has not taken steps to copyright them, then yes, the images in question can be used without incurring penalties irrespective of the fact that the rule of thumb is that whoever created the images essentially owns them owing to the principle of fair use, which is extremely complicated.There are some high profile precedents in which professional photographers have sued various organizations for having profited from their photographs, however that is not the kind of thing that would lend weight to an infringement claim because in the case of the image of the mango tree, the intellectual property is a modicum of enterprise, not the primary commodity of sale.

Unless it's nude pictures of you straddling a duck or whatever, in which case you're protected by DMCA privacy exceptions, there's not going to be a lot you can do about it without holding copyright.

I recommend reading the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act). The long and short of it is,  if you want to be absolutely sure your images are protected, you need to have registered your image with some copyright Authority or other in order to claim copyright infringement and these need to bear that watermark. You should also timestamp them ( as the date of copyright). This because of, again, the mechanism of fair use, and additionally  there are subversive ways of relegating images into the public domain; time is being of those ways.

Look at Oscar's Images of his fruit--that's how it should be done. If theoretically I used on of Oscar's images without permission, he would be within his right to sue me (after I failed to comply with a C&D).  This would be expensive (suing people just is) but yes--if it went before a magistrate, it would go his way. Definitely; especially if I tried something greasy like removing the copyright symbol and timestamp, in which case he could  slap me in the face with the spoliation bat to boot.

If you need to use a photograph of something and don't have one, try doing a Public Domain Search. By doing this you're covering yourself and aren't running the risk of pissing anybody off.

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/6-free-websites-public-domain-images-free-stock-photos/

No. In the US, the photos are automatically copyrighted, no need to register them to be copyrighted.

kh0110

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Re: Anyone have any experience buying Mango trees on EBAY?
« Reply #58 on: March 24, 2015, 10:23:43 PM »
The pictures that are posted of the trees I have for sale on Ebay are the actual pictures of the plants I have in my nursery

That is a boldface lie and i can prove that quite easily. This nursery is digging themselves into a hole. They cover one lie with another.....their credibility is Shot. I am the creator of this image and I did not authorize them to use it for their profit.




Dumb question, are the mangos in this photo Mahachanok mangos?
Thera

starling1

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Re: Posting Pictures/Ebay
« Reply #59 on: March 24, 2015, 10:37:31 PM »

If the Images have not been copyrighted, or the creator of them has not taken steps to copyright them, then yes, the images in question can be used without incurring penalties irrespective of the fact that the rule of thumb is that whoever created the images essentially owns them owing to the principle of fair use, which is extremely complicated.There are some high profile precedents in which professional photographers have sued various organizations for having profited from their photographs, however that is not the kind of thing that would lend weight to an infringement claim because in the case of the image of the mango tree, the intellectual property is a modicum of enterprise, not the primary commodity of sale.

Unless it's nude pictures of you straddling a duck or whatever, in which case you're protected by DMCA privacy exceptions, there's not going to be a lot you can do about it without holding copyright.

I recommend reading the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act). The long and short of it is,  if you want to be absolutely sure your images are protected, you need to have registered your image with some copyright Authority or other in order to claim copyright infringement and these need to bear that watermark. You should also timestamp them ( as the date of copyright). This because of, again, the mechanism of fair use, and additionally  there are subversive ways of relegating images into the public domain; time is being of those ways.

Look at Oscar's Images of his fruit--that's how it should be done. If theoretically I used on of Oscar's images without permission, he would be within his right to sue me (after I failed to comply with a C&D).  This would be expensive (suing people just is) but yes--if it went before a magistrate, it would go his way. Definitely; especially if I tried something greasy like removing the copyright symbol and timestamp, in which case he could  slap me in the face with the spoliation bat to boot.

If you need to use a photograph of something and don't have one, try doing a Public Domain Search. By doing this you're covering yourself and aren't running the risk of pissing anybody off.

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/6-free-websites-public-domain-images-free-stock-photos/

No. In the US, the photos are automatically copyrighted, no need to register them to be copyrighted.

 I did write that the general rule of thumb is that whoever crates it owns in, and while the copyright does cover unpublished and published works both, this does not ensure that a claimant will succeed in suing a plagiarist were the issue to move to a hearing. Irregardless of anything else, the DMCA is subject to fair use. This important because it places limitations on the brevity of what is granted to copyright holders, which might sound like a cop out, but imagine if we lived in a world in which you could be litigated for humming a song as you walked down the street. Fair use clauses are designed to stop ownership rights expanding into sheer absurdity. There doesn't seem to be any uniformity when looking at fair use precedents. It can go either way. Not even Aristotle could make sense of it all. Fair use provisions allow copyright infringement cases to be defended. So when push comes to shove, it's going to be an issue of who has slicker representation in the end. And if you're position can be reduced to the syllogism of 'I didn't care about anyone using it until they started indirectly profiting from it', well then you're probably going to be boned.

However, if you have formally copyrighted intellectual property of any description, you're in a much better standing to defend it had you not done this.

Here's one interesting case:

https://www.eff.org/files/filenode/lenz_v_universal/lenzorder082008.pdf

DMCA takedown requests are really designed to stop media piracy (in this regard, the DMCA has failed spectacularly) and third party redistribution networks profiting in ways they shouldn't be without paying the piper. The act isn't really designed to cater for petty grievances between individuals (and silly things like people complaining about other people using pictures of mango trees which they were too slovenly to formally  copyright). There are several other treaties and Acts which are better suited to ameliorating  visual intellectual property disputes.

Fair use doesn't apply within the Australian Jurisdiction. But DMCA law does. Go figure.

I recommended sending a C&D. That's this guy's best recourse. You don't even need a Lawyer to draw one up, anyone can do it so long as they are more literate than the muffin I ate for breakfast. It's a gentleman's agreement and the best course of action  99.9% of the  time.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 10:48:02 PM by starling1 »

jbaqai

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Re: Anyone have any experience buying Mango trees on EBAY?
« Reply #60 on: March 24, 2015, 10:49:43 PM »
May be or may be not

Just give the benefit of doubt

Cause for me , no one is willing to take the headache to certify plants, do the packing and ship to California

So no competition here anyway


Are you guys happy now to ruin the thread about a new ebayseller?

This forum has become a snakepit. There's nothing fruity about it. It's all about the money, honey. >:(

starling1

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Re: Anyone have any experience buying Mango trees on EBAY?
« Reply #61 on: March 24, 2015, 11:03:47 PM »
Look, I think people should stop character assassinating this guy. He;s producing something and selling it. That's all.

If he's good at it, he will succeed and if he isn't he'll go broke.

End of story.

jbaqai

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Re: Anyone have any experience buying Mango trees on EBAY?
« Reply #62 on: March 24, 2015, 11:10:26 PM »
I think we all need to take a deep breath here

Using a pic may be disrespectful but shouldn't be that important, unless you are making money out of it

And should give the chance to other business to improve and survive


I have lots of respect for this forums and for its member, and would like to see some high moral ground here pls


bsbullie

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Re: Anyone have any experience buying Mango trees on EBAY?
« Reply #63 on: March 25, 2015, 12:13:12 AM »
The pictures that are posted of the trees I have for sale on Ebay are the actual pictures of the plants I have in my nursery

That is a boldface lie and i can prove that quite easily. This nursery is digging themselves into a hole. They cover one lie with another.....their credibility is Shot. I am the creator of this image and I did not authorize them to use it for their profit.



Dumb question, are the mangos in this photo Mahachanok mangos?

No, they are not.
- Rob

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Re: Anyone have any experience buying Mango trees on EBAY?
« Reply #64 on: March 25, 2015, 12:14:35 AM »
I think stealing pictures is wrong....but other nurseries are just as guilty.....Top Tropicals I'm talking to you.....I  know you read and follow this site, HELL!!! you have stolen several mango descriptions quoted from forum members here without permission.....

I say it's terrible business, especially when you can simply ask around for pics and descriptions without stealing it......but at the end of the day, they are using it to sell Tropical Fruit Trees to the public to better benefit the Home Gardener...If this was a tabloid magazine spreading the latest gossip on what new variety came out stealing pictures left and right, I could see there being a major issue..but they're not, they're using these stolen photos as visual aid to sell their product which is Petty might I add, but how about they actually ask next time instead of stealing.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2015, 12:31:28 AM by ClayMango »
Thinking about joining a Fruitaholics anonymous support group...Fruit addiction has taken over my life!

bsbullie

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Re: Anyone have any experience buying Mango trees on EBAY?
« Reply #65 on: March 25, 2015, 12:16:08 AM »
Are you guys happy now to ruin the thread about a new ebayseller?

This forum has become a snakepit. There's nothing fruity about it. It's all about the money, honey. >:(

Arent you the pot calling the kettle black...
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kh0110

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Re: Anyone have any experience buying Mango trees on EBAY?
« Reply #66 on: March 25, 2015, 12:36:14 AM »
Look, I think people should stop character assassinating this guy. He;s producing something and selling it. That's all.

If he's good at it, he will succeed and if he isn't he'll go broke.

End of story.
I think we all need to take a deep breath here

Using a pic may be disrespectful but shouldn't be that important, unless you are making money out of it

And should give the chance to other business to improve and survive


I have lots of respect for this forums and for its member, and would like to see some high moral ground here pls
I think stealing pictures is wrong....but other nurseries are jsut as guilty.....Top Tropicals I'm talking to you.....I  know you read and follow this site, HELL!!! you have stolen several mango descriptions quoted from forum members here without permission.....

I say it's terrible business, especially when you can simply ask around for pics and descriptions without stealing it......but at the end of the day, they are using it to sell a Tropical Fruit Trees to the public to better benefit the Home Gardener...If this was a tabloid magizine spreading the latest gossip on what new variety came out stealing pictures left and right, I could see there being a major issue..but their not, their using these stolen photos as visual aid to sell their product which is Petty might I add, but how about they actually ask next time instead of stealing.

I'd leave the photo "stealing" to the legal beagles here, but you guys seem to be Ok with a seller using a non-Mahachanok mango photo to sell a Mahachanok mango. Really?
I'd love to have you as customers!

Thera

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Re: Anyone have any experience buying Mango trees on EBAY?
« Reply #67 on: March 25, 2015, 12:39:20 AM »
The pictures that are posted of the trees I have for sale on Ebay are the actual pictures of the plants I have in my nursery

That is a boldface lie and i can prove that quite easily. This nursery is digging themselves into a hole. They cover one lie with another.....their credibility is Shot. I am the creator of this image and I did not authorize them to use it for their profit.




And I'm afraid that I'm going to have to concur with Bangkok; Maha Chanok is an Heirloom variety that is from Thailand. It is sold in Australia as king Thai (http://www.daleysfruit.com.au/Dwarf-Mango-King-Thai.htm) and does certainly not meet your definition as  a 'Beautiful New Variety out of Florida'.

My guess is that you're using duplicitous language in order to garner interest from a market sector with an interest in 'buying American'. Well, you're technically defrauding that market and plagiarizing a variety by proxy. So you're not exactly at the pinnacle of ethical congeniality yourself.

Stones in Glass houses, my friend.

What on God's green earth are you talking about starling? Why are you listening to a discredited poster like bangkok he's insane! Time is running out on this Ebay seller that likes to post my and Tim Thompson's *generic*  mango pictures to increase their mango tree sales. Here are many genuine pictures of Steve's Ataulfo in Ontario California I took, do you want coordinates?




http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6522.msg85796#msg85796


Tim Thompson
genuine
Arbol de Oro
http://www.socalplantbreeders.com/#!mango-varieties-currently-avai/comb
passed off as a Spirit of 76 by this Ebay seller

« Last Edit: March 25, 2015, 12:41:20 AM by JF »

FlyingFoxFruits

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Re: Anyone have any experience buying Mango trees on EBAY?
« Reply #68 on: March 25, 2015, 12:57:46 AM »
same brick wall, same mango tree...
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starling1

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Re: Anyone have any experience buying Mango trees on EBAY?
« Reply #69 on: March 25, 2015, 01:00:19 AM »
The pictures that are posted of the trees I have for sale on Ebay are the actual pictures of the plants I have in my nursery

That is a boldface lie and i can prove that quite easily. This nursery is digging themselves into a hole. They cover one lie with another.....their credibility is Shot. I am the creator of this image and I did not authorize them to use it for their profit.




And I'm afraid that I'm going to have to concur with Bangkok; Maha Chanok is an Heirloom variety that is from Thailand. It is sold in Australia as king Thai (http://www.daleysfruit.com.au/Dwarf-Mango-King-Thai.htm) and does certainly not meet your definition as  a 'Beautiful New Variety out of Florida'.

My guess is that you're using duplicitous language in order to garner interest from a market sector with an interest in 'buying American'. Well, you're technically defrauding that market and plagiarizing a variety by proxy. So you're not exactly at the pinnacle of ethical congeniality yourself.

Stones in Glass houses, my friend.

What on God's green earth are you talking about starling? Why are you listening to a discredited poster like bangkok he's insane! Time is running out on this Ebay seller that likes to post my and Tim Thompson's *generic*  mango pictures to increase their mango tree sales. Here are many genuine pictures of Steve's Ataulfo in Ontario California I took, do you want coordinates?




http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6522.msg85796#msg85796


Tim Thompson
genuine
Arbol de Oro
http://www.socalplantbreeders.com/#!mango-varieties-currently-avai/comb
passed off as a Spirit of 76 by this Ebay seller


Disregard my earlier post JF--Unless of course you do run the site Bangkok was talking about, in which case, the mahachanok description should be amended to reflect its rightful country of origin. I think I misquoted you and I apologize.

Again, if you want those pictures taken down, you need to write a Cease and Desist. What you're going to need to do is dig up your old posts in which the originals first appeared, and you need to printscreen those pages. Make sure you capture the timestamp and don't clip it. Here's how to do that:

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=how+to+screenshot+page&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=6D4SVdayKsPPmwX3voEo

Once you've done that, send your C&D along with these to ebay. Tell them they are obligated as an Abuse Host to remove the infringing images in question in compliance with the DMCA (1996).

This the box you need to send your claim to: copyright@ebay.com

They do have their own legal framework for copyright infringement. You can read the tables here:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/vero-rights-owner.html

They'll probably do it and no doubt receive DMCA requests all day long. You can even use a DMCA generator to make life easy:

http://www.dmcagenerator.com/

If you're not familiar with tineye, this program allows you to see what parties are using your images either with or without your consent. I talked about free use before, and short of a DMCA takedown there will be little in the way of punitive measures you can take.

For Christ's sake people; copyright your shit!


« Last Edit: March 25, 2015, 01:26:21 AM by starling1 »

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Re: Anyone have any experience buying Mango trees on EBAY?
« Reply #70 on: March 25, 2015, 01:01:11 AM »
same brick wall, same mango tree...

Tim Thompson is another victim of these generic mango sellers
same hand, same mango

bangkok

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Re: Anyone have any experience buying Mango trees on EBAY?
« Reply #71 on: March 25, 2015, 01:32:17 AM »
How many times is he gonna waste our time with a "stolen" pic which was not even copy-protected and on public internet? There was not even a name in the pic of the owner.

I even have seen CRFG pics where they named a jackfruit a durian on public internet.  ;D ;D I still feel sorry for that jackfruit. ;D

starling1

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Re: Anyone have any experience buying Mango trees on EBAY?
« Reply #72 on: March 25, 2015, 01:34:52 AM »
How many times is he gonna waste our time with a "stolen" pic which was not even copy-protected and on public internet? There was not even a name in the pic of the owner.

I even have seen CRFG pics where they named a jackfruit a durian on public internet.  ;D ;D I still feel sorry for that jackfruit. ;D

Just because they are  virtual public utilities doesn't mean they are in the Public Domain. He's within his rights to have them taken down, even if the motive is spite.

FlyingFoxFruits

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Re: Anyone have any experience buying Mango trees on EBAY?
« Reply #73 on: March 25, 2015, 01:47:59 AM »
U don't need to copyright anything...its already implied, but enforcing the copyright is the hard part...and catching everyone who steals your pics.
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starling1

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Re: Anyone have any experience buying Mango trees on EBAY?
« Reply #74 on: March 25, 2015, 03:32:11 AM »
Well if i were him then i would remove them from the web, and also make a fence around his yard. Then nobody can get his stuff unasked, problem solved   8)

Does he know about all the copy copy brandname stuff which is for sale in Asia? They even have copied new BMW models in China, you can buy/drive them there.

I just bought 2 grafted fingerlimes, do i know if they are the real deal? Nope. Do i know if they paid for the name? Nope. Do i know if they really came from Oz? Nope....But i don't care, i'm happy with them.Did they try to cheat me? Yep, 2500 baht at the first vendor but 3 minutes later i got 2 for 900 baht.

Starling thanks for your tips how to grow them, i'm going to buy/make good draining soilmix now. That's why i read this forum.

if you can send me pictures of the fruit I can ID them.

 

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